Herbert Mini

[SavageRiffer]

Why not throw a bone to some of us home players who don't have $4000 for a 180w amp and make a Herbert Mini with 6V6s or EL34s? 25w with silent recording feature would be awesome.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

There is a diezel lunchbox in the works afaik.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

 

[danburton]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

 

[SavageRiffer]

There is a diezel lunchbox in the works afaik.

I have read a few things here and there, but nothing has materialized. I keep thinking of what would make a nice mini version, and it seems like a mini Herbert would be great. However, imagine a VH4 or Hagen mini. Hell, I'd buy all three if they came out.

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

Dude the D-Moll is 100 freaking watts. It's not lunchbox either. The D-Moll is a monster amp and it's loud as hell.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

No.

 

[LunatiBSW]

The Herbert is the Herbert because the headroom and massive wattage. Plus it is the BEST sounding master volume on a big head I've came across.
Dmoll sounds very different from herb, considering its similar voicing, from what peter and peter said

 

[SavageRiffer]

The Herbert is the Herbert because the headroom and massive wattage. Plus it is the BEST sounding master volume on a big head I've came across.
Dmoll sounds very different from herb, considering its similar voicing, from what peter and peter said

Yep, which is exactly why it would be cool if there was a Herbert mini. Hell I don't care if there's a Herbert, VH4 or Hagen mini. Either would be cool.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

The Herbert is the Herbert because the headroom and massive wattage. Plus it is the BEST sounding master volume on a big head I've came across.
Dmoll sounds very different from herb, considering its similar voicing, from what peter and peter said

Yep, which is exactly why it would be cool if there was a Herbert mini. Hell I don't care if there's a Herbert, VH4 or Hagen mini. Either would be cool.

Herbert would be impossible to replicate into a mini. A big part of the magic is the 180-200W power section. It what keeps the tones so tight.

Also... I've yet to play any "mini-amp" that sounds even half as good as its full sized progenitor. Use the MV or if needed, Two Notes Reload. My TNRLD sounds great with most any amp.

 

[SavageRiffer]

The Herbert is the Herbert because the headroom and massive wattage. Plus it is the BEST sounding master volume on a big head I've came across.
Dmoll sounds very different from herb, considering its similar voicing, from what peter and peter said

Yep, which is exactly why it would be cool if there was a Herbert mini. Hell I don't care if there's a Herbert, VH4 or Hagen mini. Either would be cool.

Herbert would be impossible to replicate into a mini. A big part of the magic is the 180-200W power section. It what keeps the tones so tight.

Also... I've yet to play any "mini-amp" that sounds even half as good as its full sized progenitor. Use the MV or if needed, Two Notes Reload. My TNRLD sounds great with most any amp.

I disagree. The Bogner Atma, Mesa Mini Mark and Mini Rect, Pink Taco, Dirty Shirley mini, etc... They all sound damned good and sell very well. Of course it's not going to be exactly the same, but these days any builder should be able to more or less replicate their larger sized amps with great success. 6V6 tubes are becoming very popular for smaller version of EL34 amps. Ceriatone is even doing it and they sound damned good. Marshall did it with the DSL15 head. I don't think EL84s can sound much like a Diezel, so maybe 6V6s can, but I'm no tech so that's left best explained by the engineers.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

The Herbert is the Herbert because the headroom and massive wattage. Plus it is the BEST sounding master volume on a big head I've came across.
Dmoll sounds very different from herb, considering its similar voicing, from what peter and peter said

Yep, which is exactly why it would be cool if there was a Herbert mini. Hell I don't care if there's a Herbert, VH4 or Hagen mini. Either would be cool.

Herbert would be impossible to replicate into a mini. A big part of the magic is the 180-200W power section. It what keeps the tones so tight.

Also... I've yet to play any "mini-amp" that sounds even half as good as its full sized progenitor. Use the MV or if needed, Two Notes Reload. My TNRLD sounds great with most any amp.

I disagree. The Bogner Atma, Mesa Mini Mark and Mini Rect, Pink Taco, Dirty Shirley mini, etc... They all sound damned good and sell very well. Of course it's not going to be exactly the same, but these days any builder should be able to more or less replicate their larger sized amps with great success. 6V6 tubes are becoming very popular for smaller version of EL34 amps. Ceriatone is even doing it and they sound damned good. Marshall did it with the DSL15 head. I don't think EL84s can sound much like a Diezel, so maybe 6V6s can, but I'm no tech so that's left best explained by the engineers.

We'll agree to disagree. I don't think any of those sound like their bigger brethren. You are not going to get the sound and responsivess from a charged inline V4 engine compared to a V8... no matter how you tweak it.

The tubes and power amps (or lack thereof) are the problem... 6V6 tubes belong in Fenders. EL84s in Marshall Bluebreakers and Vox AC30s... the right tool for the job. These are not the ideal sound for metal or even hard rock.

 

[SavageRiffer]

The Herbert is the Herbert because the headroom and massive wattage. Plus it is the BEST sounding master volume on a big head I've came across.
Dmoll sounds very different from herb, considering its similar voicing, from what peter and peter said

Yep, which is exactly why it would be cool if there was a Herbert mini. Hell I don't care if there's a Herbert, VH4 or Hagen mini. Either would be cool.

Herbert would be impossible to replicate into a mini. A big part of the magic is the 180-200W power section. It what keeps the tones so tight.

Also... I've yet to play any "mini-amp" that sounds even half as good as its full sized progenitor. Use the MV or if needed, Two Notes Reload. My TNRLD sounds great with most any amp.

I disagree. The Bogner Atma, Mesa Mini Mark and Mini Rect, Pink Taco, Dirty Shirley mini, etc... They all sound damned good and sell very well. Of course it's not going to be exactly the same, but these days any builder should be able to more or less replicate their larger sized amps with great success. 6V6 tubes are becoming very popular for smaller version of EL34 amps. Ceriatone is even doing it and they sound damned good. Marshall did it with the DSL15 head. I don't think EL84s can sound much like a Diezel, so maybe 6V6s can, but I'm no tech so that's left best explained by the engineers.

We'll agree to disagree. I don't think any of those sound like their bigger brethren. You are not going to get the sound and responsivess from a charged inline V4 engine compared to a V8... no matter how you tweak it.

The tubes and power amps (or lack thereof) are the problem... 6V6 tubes belong in Fenders. EL84s in Marshall Bluebreakers and Vox AC30s... the right tool for the job. These are not the ideal sound for metal or even hard rock.

I'm not arguing that they sound exactly like their larger couterparts. What I'm saying is that even though they don't sound exactly the same, they sound damned good. Look, if Diezel made a mini VH4 then even if it didn't sound exactly like a VH4, the fact that Diezel made it would make it a badass, VH4-like amp. Some of them pretty much capture the tone of their bigger brothers. The Peavey 6505 mini does an excellent job of that.

I would agree that they don't sound exactly alike, but some are very hard to tell from the bigger versions. The Marshall JVM 205 and 410 sound distinctly like a JVM, yet one is 50w and the other is 100w. Then Marshall came out with the little 1w amps, I used to own a couple, and they were spot on. I sure miss that little 1w JCM800 because it really captured the spirit of the JCM800 in a tiny amp.

Therefore, if other companies are successfully doing it, why can't Diezel? Besides, most people want those things these days. Why not accommodate a market that has grown in popularity?

 

[shadow070]

I understand what OP wants but making half a amp doesnt result in half the price, think more towords 80%.
People will then always buy the full Herbert 100%.

Just save and wait, i did to. Its worth it.

 

[SavageRiffer]

I understand what OP wants but making half a amp doesnt result in half the price, think more towords 80%.
People will then always buy the full Herbert 100%.

Just save and wait, i did to. Its worth it.

Based on what logic though? The pervasive trend around the globe is smaller, more affordable amps and home recording. If that's the trend cited by countless publications, then how would the logic be that people would more likely spend twice as much for a much larger more powerful amp. The truth is, few musicians need even 50 watts. I don't know what Diezel sales figures are, but the D-Moll and Paul by all accounts are very popular. The reason they're popular is they are smaller and still feature rich. In one of the Peter & Peter videos, Stapfer said that people wanted the MIDI and other features in a smaller and versatile amp, and that's why they created the D-Moll.

Moreover, I have read talk on this very forum for quite some time regarding a smaller amp. I suspect that Diezel was still making its way into the mainstream amp market which is why it hasn't yet materialized. However, now that Diezel has been carried by large corporations like Musicians Friend for a long time, it's probable that they'll start tapping into the mainstream market. The Paul seems like a step in that direction as it's a 45w, classically voiced amp aimed at a wider market, or like Peter Stapfer said, he can see it in a lot of blues and classic rock clubs.

When I think of Diezel minis, I think of how successful the Bogner Atma and Mark V minis are. I think it would be a mistake not to tap into that market. For all we know, Diezel could already have a few prototypes.

Like I said, if Diezel made a 25w mini version of all their larger amps, I'd buy them all. It's hard to imagine a Diezel player who wouldn't want one.

 

[shadow070]

Hi, my main point was that a smaller amp would not result in a much cheaper amp.... thats all.

I myself, im waiting for just a preamp, ofcourse Diezel feuled. Im in the EU so its all in my price range.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I understand what OP wants but making half a amp doesnt result in half the price, think more towords 80%.
People will then always buy the full Herbert 100%.

Just save and wait, i did to. Its worth it.

Based on what logic though? The pervasive trend around the globe is smaller, more affordable amps and home recording. If that's the trend cited by countless publications, then how would the logic be that people would more likely spend twice as much for a much larger more powerful amp. The truth is, few musicians need even 50 watts. I don't know what Diezel sales figures are, but the D-Moll and Paul by all accounts are very popular. The reason they're popular is they are smaller and still feature rich. In one of the Peter & Peter videos, Stapfer said that people wanted the MIDI and other features in a smaller and versatile amp, and that's why they created the D-Moll.

Moreover, I have read talk on this very forum for quite some time regarding a smaller amp. I suspect that Diezel was still making its way into the mainstream amp market which is why it hasn't yet materialized. However, now that Diezel has been carried by large corporations like Musicians Friend for a long time, it's probable that they'll start tapping into the mainstream market. The Paul seems like a step in that direction as it's a 45w, classically voiced amp aimed at a wider market, or like Peter Stapfer said, he can see it in a lot of blues and classic rock clubs.

When I think of Diezel minis, I think of how successful the Bogner Atma and Mark V minis are. I think it would be a mistake not to tap into that market. For all we know, Diezel could already have a few prototypes.

Like I said, if Diezel made a 25w mini version of all their larger amps, I'd buy them all. It's hard to imagine a Diezel player who wouldn't want one.

There's a whole lotta supposition, juxtaposition, pontification, and hypothetical thought in this post. And as I mentioned earlier... smaller amps change the voicing, tone, and magic found in the original full-sized amps. Just because a lot of people eat at McDonalds doesn't mean it's quality food. And not every company is out to make every cent possible from potential customers, at the cost of quality, tone and reputation. Some are concerned about quality, tone, reputation and great service... and not mass marketing.

That said... get a VH4 pedal and run it into a clean channel of 1X12 combo and enjoy.

 

[SavageRiffer]

I understand what OP wants but making half a amp doesnt result in half the price, think more towords 80%.
People will then always buy the full Herbert 100%.

Just save and wait, i did to. Its worth it.

Based on what logic though? The pervasive trend around the globe is smaller, more affordable amps and home recording. If that's the trend cited by countless publications, then how would the logic be that people would more likely spend twice as much for a much larger more powerful amp. The truth is, few musicians need even 50 watts. I don't know what Diezel sales figures are, but the D-Moll and Paul by all accounts are very popular. The reason they're popular is they are smaller and still feature rich. In one of the Peter & Peter videos, Stapfer said that people wanted the MIDI and other features in a smaller and versatile amp, and that's why they created the D-Moll.

Moreover, I have read talk on this very forum for quite some time regarding a smaller amp. I suspect that Diezel was still making its way into the mainstream amp market which is why it hasn't yet materialized. However, now that Diezel has been carried by large corporations like Musicians Friend for a long time, it's probable that they'll start tapping into the mainstream market. The Paul seems like a step in that direction as it's a 45w, classically voiced amp aimed at a wider market, or like Peter Stapfer said, he can see it in a lot of blues and classic rock clubs.

When I think of Diezel minis, I think of how successful the Bogner Atma and Mark V minis are. I think it would be a mistake not to tap into that market. For all we know, Diezel could already have a few prototypes.

Like I said, if Diezel made a 25w mini version of all their larger amps, I'd buy them all. It's hard to imagine a Diezel player who wouldn't want one.

There's a whole lotta supposition, juxtaposition, pontification, and hypothetical thought in this post. And as I mentioned earlier... smaller amps change the voicing, tone, and magic found in the original full-sized amps. Just because a lot of people eat at McDonalds doesn't mean it's quality food. And not every company is out to make every cent possible from potential customers, at the cost of quality, tone and reputation. Some are concerned about quality, tone, reputation and great service... and not mass marketing.

That said... get a VH4 pedal and run it into a clean channel of 1X12 combo and enjoy.

There's not, and you missed my point. I was just explaining the logic. I said very clearly that I don't have the data, just putting some logic to the trend. You're talking about quality and all that, but that's not even on point because it has nothing to do with it. I even said that great quality is assumed when I stated that it would "be badass if Diezel made it."

"Get a pedal and plug into a clean amp...." Come on man, you act like a mini Diezel is a stupid idea. I'm smart enough to know it's not a stupid idea, and I'll bet there are a ton of people who would agree.

 

[danburton]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

No.

From the product section of diezelamplification.com: “D-Moll: Small box – but big sound. Herberts little brother.”

 

[Dylheaven27]

Wizard did a 6v6 MC 25 and 35 they sound killer, But are still loud as f*** and really expensive. Also I agree diezel has the best master I've ever encountered. I am trying to buy a hagen to play mostly at night in my living room. Its that good.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I understand what OP wants but making half a amp doesnt result in half the price, think more towords 80%.
People will then always buy the full Herbert 100%.

Just save and wait, i did to. Its worth it.

Based on what logic though? The pervasive trend around the globe is smaller, more affordable amps and home recording. If that's the trend cited by countless publications, then how would the logic be that people would more likely spend twice as much for a much larger more powerful amp. The truth is, few musicians need even 50 watts. I don't know what Diezel sales figures are, but the D-Moll and Paul by all accounts are very popular. The reason they're popular is they are smaller and still feature rich. In one of the Peter & Peter videos, Stapfer said that people wanted the MIDI and other features in a smaller and versatile amp, and that's why they created the D-Moll.

Moreover, I have read talk on this very forum for quite some time regarding a smaller amp. I suspect that Diezel was still making its way into the mainstream amp market which is why it hasn't yet materialized. However, now that Diezel has been carried by large corporations like Musicians Friend for a long time, it's probable that they'll start tapping into the mainstream market. The Paul seems like a step in that direction as it's a 45w, classically voiced amp aimed at a wider market, or like Peter Stapfer said, he can see it in a lot of blues and classic rock clubs.

When I think of Diezel minis, I think of how successful the Bogner Atma and Mark V minis are. I think it would be a mistake not to tap into that market. For all we know, Diezel could already have a few prototypes.

Like I said, if Diezel made a 25w mini version of all their larger amps, I'd buy them all. It's hard to imagine a Diezel player who wouldn't want one.

There's a whole lotta supposition, juxtaposition, pontification, and hypothetical thought in this post. And as I mentioned earlier... smaller amps change the voicing, tone, and magic found in the original full-sized amps. Just because a lot of people eat at McDonalds doesn't mean it's quality food. And not every company is out to make every cent possible from potential customers, at the cost of quality, tone and reputation. Some are concerned about quality, tone, reputation and great service... and not mass marketing.

That said... get a VH4 pedal and run it into a clean channel of 1X12 combo and enjoy.

There's not, and you missed my point. I was just explaining the logic. I said very clearly that I don't have the data, just putting some logic to the trend. You're talking about quality and all that, but that's not even on point because it has nothing to do with it. I even said that great quality is assumed when I stated that it would "be badass if Diezel made it."

"Get a pedal and plug into a clean amp...." Come on man, you act like a mini Diezel is a stupid idea. I'm smart enough to know it's not a stupid idea, and I'll bet there are a ton of people who would agree.

Here's what you are missing:

1. Quality. Product quality is directly tied to the price. You pay for what you get. You're not going to boil down a $4000 amp into a $2000 mini-amp... irregardless of output, smaller power section or scaling down features. It will never happen. The final product will suffer and many builders are not okay with it... or want to follow market trends like you mention. Also in the case of the MKV, it costs a lot less than the Herbert to begin with. The Atma is it's own amp... its not a scaled down model of a larger amp. Bad example. The Paul and DMoll are the scaled down models... and there isn't a huge price differential with the 100W offerings.

2. Performance. The sound from any 25W or lower amp will be drastically different than a 100W amp. Many builders, buyers, and others hear the difference an will not want to settle for less. Take the Soldano SLO for example. Soldano has built and billed 5-6 amps over the years as having the same "overdrive sound as the SLO... or the exact same lead channel as the SLO"... The Hot Rod, Avenger, Astroverb et al. Guess what? None of them sound, feel, or perform like the SLO.

3. Performance is tied to quality and price. You remind me of a guy walking in to a Ferrari dealer asking why the cars cost so much? You'll say I can buy 4 Hondas for the price of 1 Ferrari, that run just as good as these. When will Ferrari build a reasonably priced budget compact model for daily driving? That's what the majority of car buyers want. Guess what... it won't happen.