High vs lesser output pups with high gain amps?

[H Golf Sport]

What are people considering hot pups these days? I always thought SD distortion and JB were considered real hot?

 

[boost]

You can add dirt, but you can't add clean.

Hot pickups have their place, but if you like a variance in tone, and want to hear your guitar more than your pickup, low or medium output is the way to go.

I have both since neither can do what the other one can do. Another excuse for more guitars!

 

[BeZo]

I've been in a few extreme metal bands, so perhaps I can shed some light on this.

The high gain pickup thing is for people who only care about one thing. EMGs sound like EMGs and if you want to sound like EMGs, you use EMGs. We used to joke and use that drug ad reference "This is your amp. This is your amp on EMGs. Any questions?"

When you're playing extreme metal (black/death metal where tremolo picking and blistering riffs are constant), you want the attack and compression you get from using high output and active pickups. I used to prey on those EMG kids and ended up putting Blackouts in their guitars because they were a active, punchy, high output pickup that didn't sound like a sterile mess like EMGs do.

Personally, I'm getting out of the active pickup scene. I'm about to get red of my Blackouts to get something a little lower output so that I can get a more natural tone. But, that is mostly because I'm not going to play drop-tuned blistering metal anymore. If you don't play blistering metal, use a medium output pickup and use your amp to do what it does. If you want the attack and compression for blistering metal, get some high output pickups or even actives. If you want to play blistering metal and you don't care if you sound good, play EMGs through your Crate. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[noob_pwn]

I use medium-hot output pickups ie bkp aftermath and nailbomb. Even the ceramic warpig isn't as hot as a late model JB I have lying around, it just sounds like it is because of it's voicing. I'm starting to prefer lower output pickups as time goes by, I think some people may prefer hotter pickups because of the compression they get

 

[glip22]

This really is a tough question. I have played high and lower output pickups with high gain. It really boils down to the pickup itself and how it is voiced. Some high output pickups have sounded much better than some lower output and vice versa. It's more pickup dependant rather than the pickups output to some degree.

 

[supersonic]

Depends on what sound you're after. I find hot pickups to be comprressed and lifeless. I love the sound of a high gain amp dialed hot with the guitar volume rolled back, it has the most saturated crunch tone. As opposed to using a high output pickup with the guitar volume on 10, running into a boost pedal.

 

[racerevlon]

High gain amp, low-output pickup.

End of line

 

[hunter]

I found my optimum in the vintage hot category, say 8-10K Alnico V.

These would be BareKnuckles: RiffRaff (8K), VHII (9K), BlackDock (10K)

At the moment I most like the RR in my PRS.

 

[university81]

I also prefer lower output pups, good clarity and gives you more leeway between boosts and the front of the amp to shape your tone

i'll be trying out a

suhr DSV neck and a DSH(12-13k resistance) in the bridge to see how that pans out as i like vintage PAF voicing but with a fair amount of grunt, i might change the DSH for a DSV+ , but i already have a DSV+ in another guitar,

see how it pans out

 

[rupe]

I am done with hot pups, SD Distortion is as hot as I will go.

Thats like saying "I am done eating meat, prime rib is as close as I'll get."

Hot pups were made because there was a lack of gain, that is not the case anymore. You lose articulation, dynamics, guitar volume control, etc.

This is exactly it...they were originally designed to slam the front end of a traditional tube amp for more gain. They really don't bring anything to party when combined with a high gain amp IMO. Medium hot (H2+, Custom/Custom 5, JB, etc) is about as hot as I care for these days due to the issues mentioned above.

 

[Atropos_Project]

I went through a variety of lower output pups before trying Aldrichs pups out. The one advantage in my mind to a hotter pickup is that you always have the option of rolling off volume and tone knobs a bit to calm things down, whereas with a lower output pickup, you may not have as many sonic options if you want a little extra push, as it were.

 

[vchizzle]

I like pickups in the 14-15k range. I use a Duncan Custom 5(alnico 5) and PRS HFS(ceramic)...also have a Mira pickup that's just under 10k that I like quite a bit. I don't run insane gain either though.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

[

Hot pups were made because there was a lack of gain, that is not the case anymore. You lose articulation, dynamics, guitar volume control, etc.

This is exactly it...they were originally designed to slam the front end of a traditional tube amp for more gain. They really don't bring anything to party when combined with a high gain amp IMO. Medium hot (H2+, Custom/Custom 5, JB, etc) is about as hot as I care for these days due to the issues mentioned above.

I beg to differ, my highest output pickup rolls off just as well as my lowest. One is 17k the other is 8 k There is no difference in roll off whatsoever other than the taper.

Also now that you mention this you are all forgetting a major component. The volume knob!

With a high output pickup you can lower the volume knob and have your lower output pickup response, then turn it back up for an instant boost in output, gain and compression.

Try turning a lower output pickup higher than maximum, just can't do it, less options without outboard gear.

I have a guitar i was using to fill in with a friends band. The band required far less gain than my typical meta projects. I win up rolling off a lot for different parts. It was always a compromise between finding the sweet spot on the knob and performing. I kept finding myself retweaking the knob three or four times until it was just right.

I wanted a better solution and considered buying another guitar just for the project.

Then i had an epiphany. I don't use tone pots. I remove them for a tad more gain and to shift the resonant peak up a little higher.

I disassembled the guitar . I turned the volume knob to a good crunch sound and measured the resistance, i then did the same for clean.

Lastly i wired an on/on/on for the three values of resistance. I then had a clean crunch and wide open switch on the guitar that served my needs flawlessly.

 

[rupe]

Resistance does not equal output...a high resistance (15k+) does not necessarily mean a pickup is hotter than another with a lower resistance. Example:

Dimarzio Air Zone - 17.49K, 323 millivolt output
Dimarzio X2N - 15.83K, 510 mv output

The X2N is waaaaay hotter than the Air Zone

 

[glip22]

No offense but this thread is irrevelant. It's pickup dependant. Low output versus high output has little bearing on sound quality in this general context. There are crappy sounding low output pickups just as there are high output and vice versa. I have played great sounding high and lower output pickups as well. So what are we comparing here? That would have relevance. What would sound better with high gain? A shitty low output pickup or a great sounding high output pickup.

 

[Ventura]

Resistance does not equal output...a high resistance (15k+) does not necessarily mean a pickup is hotter than another with a lower resistance. Example:

Dimarzio Air Zone - 17.49K, 323 millivolt output
Dimarzio X2N - 15.83K, 510 mv output

The X2N is waaaaay hotter than the Air Zone

BOOM. There's an answer!!

By the way, this has been an awesome post for all the comments and opinions. Very interesting.

Peace,
V.

 

[glip22]

Resistance does not equal output...a high resistance (15k+) does not necessarily mean a pickup is hotter than another with a lower resistance. Example:

Dimarzio Air Zone - 17.49K, 323 millivolt output
Dimarzio X2N - 15.83K, 510 mv output

The X2N is waaaaay hotter than the Air Zone

BOOM. There's an answer!!

By the way, this has been an awesome post for all the comments and opinions. Very interesting.

Peace,
V.

This too. High resistance does not mean high output.

 

[grooveHT]

Resistance does not equal output...a high resistance (15k+) does not necessarily mean a pickup is hotter than another with a lower resistance. Example:

Dimarzio Air Zone - 17.49K, 323 millivolt output
Dimarzio X2N - 15.83K, 510 mv output

The X2N is waaaaay hotter than the Air Zone

BOOM. There's an answer!!

By the way, this has been an awesome post for all the comments and opinions. Very interesting.

Peace,
V.

This too. High resistance does not mean high output.

Agreed; magnet composition has a lot to do with output as well. A2 in a 9.8k pickup will be very different from ceramic mags in the same 9.8k pickup. Look at the SD custom series, for example, where three different magnets in the same basic pickup yields significantly different EQ and output.

 

[Greazygeo]

Use high output pickups with high gain amps and low output pickups with low gain amps....how much more simple does it need to be?!!?

and to maximize your tone make sure you spend as much as you can on the pickup, you get more tone that way.

 

[thegame]

Use high output pickups with high gain amps and low output pickups with low gain amps....how much more simple does it need to be?!!?

Thats pretty much the opposite of what nearly everyone on this thread is saying.