How Big of a MIDI pedal do I need? calling RACK GUYS!

[VESmedic]

Hey guys, finally everything is coming together for my rig Basically heres what I have enroute, and what I want to do:

2 VHT heads (UL and Deliverance)
Fractal Axe FX (4 cable method with UL)
RJM RG 16 audio switcher ( stoked about this )

This is the "core" of my rack. Basically,I can't decide how big of a MIDI pedal I should. I guess what I don't understand is, why are some big, and some small? Can't they all do the same thing?


Basically, I want to use the VHT UL and the axe fx as my "wet" signal. I'd like to have 4 or 5 presets that are just the combo of the UL and Deliverance in different configurations. Then, I'd like to have 4 or 5 presets (or however many I choose), that are the VHT UL's poweramp, and the axe fx amp modeling (all possible with the 4 Cable method for those that aren't familiar)

MIDI Pedal options:

RJM mastermind: This is the obvious choice, as I am using the RJM RG-16. However, it looks rather "small". It is programmed right out of the gate to be set up with RJM products, and for someone that is new to midi, this seems like a definite plus.

Ground Control Pro: an industry standard it seems, and has lotsa buttons What are the advantages of having alof of buttons like the ground control pro vs something like the RJM mastermind? I like the fact that the IA buttons are all there.


Fractal MFC 101: Huge pedal board, and expensive, but probably the end all be all.


So I guess what I am getting at is, how do you do what something big like the MFC 101 does, with something small like the RJM? Do you have to do alot more scrolling through banks etc to get it to do what you want? Ideally, I'd like to have all 10+ of my presets all have their own button (which is why the GCP is appealing as I believe I can do this with that), and not have to "scroll" through banks.

Anyways, I am rambling, any help is appreciated

 

[Zachman]

How many features you need is entirely up to you.

The benefit of a larger controller is usually, more "Control". If you just want preset access, to switch multiple pieces of gear, switch amp channels etc... then perhaps small is fine. If you only have a few presets that you're going to use, and you aren't needing to access individual features within a preset (ex. amp channel switching, Continuous Control #'s to control real time parameters of gear, access to individual loops to turn on/off pedals in your loops (within a preset-- as opposed to creating a Program change/"Preset" for every possible contingency) [potentially a lot more scrolling through banks and presets]-- then small is fine.

 

[stephen sawall]

The bigger ones usually have the option of turning on and off individual effects in the presets, etc..... I find this very useful as I set up each bank as a individual song or group... On my Voodoo Lab it is usually (4 preset setting) clean, crunch, lead and other. Then the other foot-switches can be set up for bypassing individual effects on/off, tap speed for delays and modulation, bypass everything for tuning, other CC commands, etc....
This way I have the presets and can control stuff on the fly like a regular board. Just having presets can be limiting... live it can be very much this way.

A other thing you need to be aware of is that when you add a gain stage (change channels on your amp) the phase changes. There are ways around this, but you should be aware of this. What will happen is your amps will be out of phase with each other when you change channels on your UL.

Have you tried the 4 cable method with your rig ? Some people have reported not being able to get rid of noise with some gear using this method ...

I believe (could be very wrong) that RJM is going to be making a bigger board. I would also recommend checking out what Rhodes is doing soon ... he told me about his next switcher and I think it covers everything in a very well planned out way...

Hey Zachman ...

 

[Zachman]

The bigger ones usually have the option of turning on and off individual effects in the presets, etc..... I find this very useful as I set up each bank as a individual song or group... On my Voodoo Lab it is usually (4 preset setting) clean, crunch, lead and other. Then the other foot-switches can be set up for bypassing individual effects on/off, tap speed for delays and modulation, bypass everything for tuning, other CC commands, etc....
This way I have the presets and can control stuff on the fly like a regular board. Just having presets can be limiting... live it can be very much this way.

A other thing you need to be aware of is that when you add a gain stage (change channels on your amp) the phase changes. There are ways around this, but you should be aware of this. What will happen is your amps will be out of phase with each other when you change channels on your UL.

Have you tried the 4 cable method with your rig ? Some people have reported not being able to get rid of noise with some gear using this method ...

I believe (could be very wrong) that RJM is going to be making a bigger board. I would also recommend checking out what Rhodes is doing soon ... he told me about his next switcher and I think it covers everything in a very well planned out way...

Hey Zachman ...

Aloha Pete,

The other week I was up in Seattle and hanging out w/ (I think) an acquaintance of yours-- Terry Date (Engineer/Producer) works w/ C. Cornell, etc... My girlfriend and Terry's wife are best friends.

Hope all is well w/ you and yours

 

[VESmedic]

You guys are great! Thanks for the help.

Well, as of right now (but of course, things DO change, and probably will once I realize EVERYTHING I am able to do with this rig) I basically would like a preset with each of the channels on the UL (so thats 3) a Preset with Deliverance 120 by itself, with a od808 up front (this is where the RG 16 comes), and then another preset with both amps running together.

So thats 5 right there

Next: I'd like to have anywehre from 5-7 presets with the VHT as the poweramp, and the axe fx with an amp model. These will more than likely be already setup from the get go with effects and what not, I don't think I will need IA switching with these, because I will have already programmed them the way I want.


The "real amp" presets though ( The 5 listed above) I'd like to have access to IA with them though. I don't mind "alittle" tap dancing. For instance, Clean channel with the VHT UL, IA to reverb chorus delay etc, but not saved in the actual preset....or maybe UL's lead channel, IA switch for a modelled boost pedal up front, but not actually saved in the preset....Is this making sense?

 

[stephen sawall]

Zachman ...
I have meet Terry ... but do not really know him. To bad I did not know you were here... could have had a beer and BS gear, etc...

 

[stephen sawall]

VESmedic ....

Just make sure you leave yourself some room for growth. It always seems that I find I need a few more things or my needs have changed in some way. I have seen a lot of people make this mistake, including me a few times.

 

[mixohoytian]

it's the size really.... that's quite frightening

 

[Zachman]

I have meet Terry ... but do not really know him. To bad I did not know you were here... could have had a beer and BS gear, etc...

I'll keep that in mind next time I go up, and will definitely send you a PM. My GF lives in Seattle, and works for Alaska Airlines, so I fly free and will likely be going up again soon.

 

[stephen sawall]

so I fly free and will likely be going up again soon.

I live about a mile south of the airport .... looking forward to it.

 

[Zachman]

so I fly free and will likely be going up again soon.

I live about a mile south of the airport .... looking forward to it.

Cool!! Terry said he was in the studio this month w/ Smashing Pumpkins, and Vendetta Red. Perhaps I can get out there in November. My GF is coming here for a week (next week) for my and her B-day's.

 

[Zachman]

You guys are great! Thanks for the help.

Well, as of right now (but of course, things DO change, and probably will once I realize EVERYTHING I am able to do with this rig) I basically would like a preset with each of the channels on the UL (so thats 3) a Preset with Deliverance 120 by itself, with a od808 up front (this is where the RG 16 comes), and then another preset with both amps running together.

So thats 5 right there

Next: I'd like to have anywehre from 5-7 presets with the VHT as the poweramp, and the axe fx with an amp model. These will more than likely be already setup from the get go with effects and what not, I don't think I will need IA switching with these, because I will have already programmed them the way I want.


The "real amp" presets though ( The 5 listed above) I'd like to have access to IA with them though. I don't mind "alittle" tap dancing. For instance, Clean channel with the VHT UL, IA to reverb chorus delay etc, but not saved in the actual preset....or maybe UL's lead channel, IA switch for a modelled boost pedal up front, but not actually saved in the preset....Is this making sense?

You can accommodate amp channel switching etc... into presets and IA switches-- which is how I prefer it, because it allows you to just be able to switch within a preset-- instead of having to make a duplicate preset with the amp or amp channel change as the only difference.

You need to be aware that not all MIDI controllers send CC#'s AND PC#'s from any all of the switches. Also the amount of simultaneous MIDI channel PC# and CC#'s vary between units as well as expression pedal ports etc...

Rock on and BEST of luck with it. It's a fun ride!

I found this midi foot pedal comparison chart, which I hope aids you.

http://g-force.info/midiboard_comparison.htm


Also here is a link to the new CAE controllers (Not on the comparison chart)

http://customaudioelectronics.com/products?view=product&prod_id=prod41

Video tutorial of CAE MIDI foot pedals....

http://customaudioelectronics.com/RS-T