How Did You Get Saved?

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MistaGuitah

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Some Christians have amazing or profound testimonials, but most seem rather unremarkable until you start peeling back the layers. Explain how you got saved. How has it changed you, your life, and how has it affected your friends and family? How had it changed the music you play and listen to, and has it cured you of the gear-whoring many of us are so prone to?
 
Saved from what?


I saved myself by having an epiphany moment. Epiphany moments are how we progress as people. My epiphany moments lead me to the conclusion that we derive meaning from life by way of and through our meaningful relationships with others. By “meaningful”, I mean by taking responsibility and being reliable to our others despite whether or not there is reciprocation.

If we constantly live our lives with our own selves as our priority, the only meaning we derive is “me”.

I didn’t need an imagined, omniscient being to lead me to my epiphany moments. All I required was sobriety, and an environment that allowed me to reflect in a meaningful way. That is, in a way that is contemplative, and not simply reminiscing and imagining. That is proactive. Getting on your knees, accepting Jesus (or any other diety) as your lord and savior, with the faith that They will forgive your past and future sins is as inactive and passive as you can get. You need to do the work for yourself and your others. And in that work you will realize, everyone is your other.
 
1st time I was to young. An aunt by marriage lost her mother and after the funeral her brother who is an ordained minister, and my uncle went around to each of us young kids saying the sinner’s prayer and getting saved. Later on in life I was saved again. Legitimately this time. I have truly experienced a miracle and his divine intervention in my life. I am a believer but I’m not a very good Christian. I do recognize my faults and ask his forgiveness for them. And I really try not to judge but I do anyway and shame on me for it. Okay I’m done rambling…lol
 
1st time I was to young. An aunt by marriage lost her mother and after the funeral her brother who is an ordained minister, and my uncle went around to each of us young kids saying the sinner’s prayer and getting saved. Later on in life I was saved again. Legitimately this time. I have truly experienced a miracle and his divine intervention in my life. I am a believer but I’m not a very good Christian. I do recognize my faults and ask his forgiveness for them. And I really try not to judge but I do anyway and shame on me for it. Okay I’m done rambling…lol

That was legit more honest and realistic than I see many of the self-proclaimed Christians being. Good on you, man!
 
I'm undecided about all religions. There may or may not be a there there. I just keep my moral compass oriented properly.
 
It’s a personal decision for everyone. But everyone is way too judgmental in this day and age. My personal pet peeve is Christian’s being attacked and mocked for their faith and it being accepted and fine…. But don’t say shit about Islam…and even Judaism….not sure if I’m making any sense….
 
You know I have to be a Christian when I’m rocking a holster like this….
 

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I was born, raised, baptized as Catholic, but there was so much hypocrisy of it all within the small city I grew up in that by the time I was 12 I couldn’t take any of it seriously. Shortly after that our priest got popped for touching boys and that was it for me, they lost me forever. It always came off as a trope before that, but when it happened it made all the jokes/allegations about priests touching kids very real. The rest of my teen years were spent shitting on organized religion altogether.

In my early 20’s I took an interest in all religions and started reading as much as I could about whatever I could, mainly the histories of them as that interested me the most; where and how they started, how they’ve changed over years, etc. As a result of that I was able to take a little from all of them and in the end found I was much more spiritually minded than I had ever even considered. More importantly, it created a kind of filter for me to filter out bad habits/cynicism and as a result, put me in a state of mind where if I’m not treating people precisely how I want to be treated, then I deserve what I get.

And I get that some people here, reading this will say “Oh, so you want people to call you a fuckstick if you say something on a forum?” Yep. If I say something stupid, absolutely. I’m aware of the stones I throw, they come from my own backyard.

It’s unfortunate that there are people who use religion to talk down to others or vilify them without merit, it’s tarnished a lot of truly amazing insight that can be found within multiple religions.

And anyone who is legitimately serious about knowing the history of religions should know at this point the big story has been told and re-told well before our current Roman calendar. I find that very interesting when people who claim their religion is the “only right one” completely ignore that their religion is primarily borrowed, re-titled and re-purposed over time. I think if the majority of Christians actually understood that the majority of their religion is pagan-based they’d freak the fuck out, even though the end goal/teachings bring them to the same place, as do the majority of religions.
 
Saved from what?


I saved myself by having an epiphany moment. Epiphany moments are how we progress as people. My epiphany moments lead me to the conclusion that we derive meaning from life by way of and through our meaningful relationships with others. By “meaningful”, I mean by taking responsibility and being reliable to our others despite whether or not there is reciprocation.

If we constantly live our lives with our own selves as our priority, the only meaning we derive is “me”.

I didn’t need an imagined, omniscient being to lead me to my epiphany moments. All I required was sobriety, and an environment that allowed me to reflect in a meaningful way. That is, in a way that is contemplative, and not simply reminiscing and imagining. That is proactive. Getting on your knees, accepting Jesus (or any other diety) as your lord and savior, with the faith that They will forgive your past and future sins is as inactive and passive as you can get. You need to do the work for yourself and your others. And in that work you will realize, everyone is your other.
Too bad none of that is reflected in your speech and conduct. It's all hypocrisy. For example, you knew this is a Christian thread yet decided to stroll in to interject your incoherent, uneducated beliefs to disparage and dismiss Christianity (which you know absolutely nothing about). You didn't post it because of shared interest but to offend those who know more than you.

The thing is you operate like a stoned navigator. The first thing people gain from education is learning how to learn. Since you are uneducated, you don't have the ability to logically reason or methodically formulate ideas. All of your beliefs are gleaned off the surface of various things you hear, brief observations, and worldly precepts. You never dug down deep, sacrificed yourself, poured through thousands of pages, consulted hundreds of experts, or spent years pursuing truth and knowledge. You judge things by your own shallow, mundane observations, misguided ideals, and then settle on various beliefs as if somehow you figured it all out without any effort to validate them. Don't try to refute this because if you had an educated mind, it would reflect on what you do and how you do it.

There's so much pollution in what you said that it would take pages upon pages to instruct you in the error of your ways. However, you should first at least understand the very simple concept that no one can save themselves - as you just claimed you are able to do.

You did not create yourself, nor did you create the order of the universe that facilitates your coming into being. You are mortal and will surely die. You can't stop death, slow it down, or determine the time and manner in which it comes. You could be stricken with disease or calamity, and you have no control whatsoever of time and chance. Therefore, you have no power to save yourself. You cannot know what happens after death but you still live life as if it doesn't matter. You cannot control life, death, or even know what will become of your soul when you die. Thus, you've become comforted by your own contrived delusion.

You say your beliefs are based on various "epiphany moments," but that's like trying to find your way out of the wilderness just because you recognized a bush you passed by an hour ago. Without understanding where you are and how to get out, your 'epiphanies' amount to no more than recognizing you've already made the same mistake but never taking the logical steps necessary to resolve the condition that keeps you repeating your mistakes. That's why you can only modify your mistakes to essentially a version 2, version 3, etc. of the same mistakes.

You talk about sobriety as an end goal rather than the means to an end. People like you think, "If I can just get sober then everything will be OK." Either you never actually considered the purpose of sobriety or forgot about it as soon as you started. The purpose of sobriety is to be able to think and see clearly, and not make involuntary errors. Sobriety allows you to make better decisions, be more productive and capable, and not harm yourself or others needlessly. Yet look at yourself? You may have achieved sobriety but you never used it to develop your mind and reasoning. It's like, "Oh well I'm sober now so I'm good."

You say, "I don't need an imagined, omniscient being to lead me to epiphany moments." Well your intention in saying that is absurd but ironically you are right. An "omniscient being" wouldn't lead you back to your same mistakes, rather, would lead you through the way out. Your thought is so underdeveloped that it's like an impenetrable wall keeping you from seeing what's on the other side.

You don't even consider what you're saying. If GOD is imaginary then you're also saying that billions of people for thousands of years are stupider than you are; that they believe in fiction and somehow you're more sober-minded than anyone else. Ha! That's just crazy man. Based on what evidence do you assert GOD is an "imagined" being? You never studied archeology, history, geology, anthropology, biology, physics, genetics, etc., so how on earth do you think you can it's all imaginary? That's walking across an immense dinosaur graveyard with fossils and complete skeletal remains poking out of the ground everywhere but still saying, "There's no such thing as dinosaurs. It's imaginary, and everyone who believes in dinosaurs are stupider than I am."

Ironically, you've never seen a dinosaur but still believe they existed based on your minuscule exposure to archeological evidence and because the world tells you that. Yet, you've never even bothered to look at all the archeological, atomic, biological, geological evidence of GOD but somehow say it's all imaginary. Your beliefs don't even add up. Your reasoning doesn't hold water. The crazy thing is you babble as if you have some kind of sensible, sage knowledge to share with everyone.

Perhaps your most absurd belief is thinking you have the capacity to understand GOD. You even think you know better than GOD. If you didn't think that, then you wouldn't spew the nonsense you do. When you jut forth questions like, "Well if GOD is so perfect then why does He allow evil?" You see, in your little mind, that's a valid question. However, in the scope of universal reasoning, it's ridiculous. You know nothing about GOD because you blindly reject Him, but think somehow that you - a mere mortal who can't spare himself from death or chance - even know what questions to ask about GOD. More than that, you think somehow you could understand the answer if He gave it to you! Ha!

Well, I really don't care how you react to this or what you will say but I do hope that you'll at least absorb it secretly and try to develop some essential logic and reasoning.
 
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I was born, raised, baptized as Catholic, but there was so much hypocrisy of it all within the small city I grew up in that by the time I was 12 I couldn’t take any of it seriously. Shortly after that our priest got popped for touching boys and that was it for me, they lost me forever. It always came off as a trope before that, but when it happened it made all the jokes/allegations about priests touching kids very real. The rest of my teen years were spent shitting on organized religion altogether.

In my early 20’s I took an interest in all religions and started reading as much as I could about whatever I could, mainly the histories of them as that interested me the most; where and how they started, how they’ve changed over years, etc. As a result of that I was able to take a little from all of them and in the end found I was much more spiritually minded than I had ever even considered. More importantly, it created a kind of filter for me to filter out bad habits/cynicism and as a result, put me in a state of mind where if I’m not treating people precisely how I want to be treated, then I deserve what I get.

And I get that some people here, reading this will say “Oh, so you want people to call you a fuckstick if you say something on a forum?” Yep. If I say something stupid, absolutely. I’m aware of the stones I throw, they come from my own backyard.

It’s unfortunate that there are people who use religion to talk down to others or vilify them without merit, it’s tarnished a lot of truly amazing insight that can be found within multiple religions.

And anyone who is legitimately serious about knowing the history of religions should know at this point the big story has
 
Too bad none of that is reflected in your speech and conduct. It's all hypocrisy. For example, you knew this is a Christian thread yet decided to stroll in to interject your incoherent, uneducated beliefs to disparage and dismiss Christianity (which you know absolutely nothing about). You didn't post it because of shared interest but to offend those who know more than you.

The thing is you operate like a stoned navigator. The first thing people gain from education is learning how to learn. Since you are uneducated, you don't have the ability to logically reason or methodically formulate ideas. All of your beliefs are gleaned off the surface of various things you hear, brief observations, and worldly precepts. You never dug down deep, sacrificed yourself, poured through thousands of pages, consulted hundreds of experts, or spent years pursuing truth and knowledge. You judge things by your own shallow, mundane observations, misguided ideals, and then settle on various beliefs as if somehow you figured it all out without any effort to validate them. Don't try to refute this because if you had an educated mind, it would reflect in what you do and how you do it.

There's so much pollution in what you said that it would take pages upon pages to instruct you in the error of your ways. However, you should first at least understand the very simple concept that no one can save themselves - as you just claimed you are able to do.

You did not create yourself, nor did you create the order of the universe that facilitates your coming into being. You are mortal and will surely die. You can't stop death, slow it down, or determine the time and manner in which it comes. You could be stricken with disease or calamity, and you have no control whatsoever of time and chance. Therefore, you have no power to save yourself. You cannot know what happens after death but you still live life as if it doesn't matter. You cannot control life, death, or even know what will become of your soul when you die. Thus, you've become comforted by your own contrived delusion.

You say your beliefs are based on various "epiphany moments," but that's like trying to find your way out of the wilderness just because you recognized a bush you passed by an hour ago. Without understanding where you are and how to get out, your 'epiphanies' amount to no more than recognizing you've already made the same mistake but never taking the logical steps necessary to resolve the condition that keeps you repeating your mistakes. That's why you can only modify your mistakes to essentially a version 2, version 3, etc. of the same mistakes.

You talk about sobriety as an end goal rather than the means to an end. People like you think, "If I can just get sober then everything will be OK." Either you never actually considered the purpose of sobriety or forgot about it as soon as you started. The purpose of sobriety is to be able to think and see clearly, and not make involuntary errors. Yet look at yourself? You may have achieved sobriety but you never used it to develop your mind and reasoning.

You say, "I don't need an imagined, omniscient being to lead me to epiphany moments." Well your intention in saying that is absurd but ironically you are right. An "omniscient being" wouldn't lead you back to your same mistakes, rather, would lead you through the way out. Your thought is so underdeveloped that it's like an impenetrable wall keeping you from seeing what's on the other side.

You don't even consider what you're saying. If GOD is imaginary then you're also saying that billions of people for thousands of years are stupider than you are; that they believe in fiction and somehow you're more sober-minded than anyone else. Ha! That's just crazy man. Based on what evidence do you assert GOD is an "imagined" being? You never studied archeology, history, geology, anthropology, biology, physics, genetics, etc., so how on earth do you think you can it's all imaginary? That's walking across an immense dinosaur graveyard with fossils and complete skeletal remains poking out of the ground everywhere but still saying, "There's no such thing as dinosaurs. It's imaginary, and everyone who believes in dinosaurs are stupider than I am."

Ironically, you've never seen a dinosaur but still believe they existed based on your minuscule exposure to archeological evidence and because the world tells you that. Yet, you've never even bothered to look at all the archeological, atomic, biological, geological evidence of GOD but somehow say it's all imaginary. Your beliefs don't even add up. Your reasoning doesn't hold water. The crazy thing is you babble as if you have some kind of sensible, sage knowledge to share with everyone.

Perhaps your most absurd belief is thinking you have the capacity to understand GOD. You even think you know better than GOD. If you didn't think that, then you wouldn't spew the nonsense you do. When you jut forth questions like, "Well if GOD is so perfect then why does He allow evil?" You see, in your little mind, that's a valid question. However, in the scope of universal reasoning, it's ridiculous. You know nothing about GOD because you blindly reject Him, but think somehow that you - a mere mortal who can't spare himself from death or chance - even know what questions to ask about GOD. More than that, you think somehow you could understand the answer if He gave it to you! Ha!

Well, I really don't care how you react to this or what you will say but I do hope that you'll at least absorb it secretly and try to develop some essential logic and reasoning.
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It’s unfortunate that there are people who use religion to talk down to others or vilify them without merit, it’s tarnished a lot of truly amazing insight that can be found within multiple religions.

Some of ya’ll need to read that part a few hundred times.
 
I was born, raised, baptized as Catholic, but there was so much hypocrisy of it all within the small city I grew up in that by the time I was 12 I couldn’t take any of it seriously. Shortly after that our priest got popped for touching boys and that was it for me, they lost me forever. It always came off as a trope before that, but when it happened it made all the jokes/allegations about priests touching kids very real. The rest of my teen years were spent shitting on organized religion altogether.

In my early 20’s I took an interest in all religions and started reading as much as I could about whatever I could, mainly the histories of them as that interested me the most; where and how they started, how they’ve changed over years, etc. As a result of that I was able to take a little from all of them and in the end found I was much more spiritually minded than I had ever even considered. More importantly, it created a kind of filter for me to filter out bad habits/cynicism and as a result, put me in a state of mind where if I’m not treating people precisely how I want to be treated, then I deserve what I get.

And I get that some people here, reading this will say “Oh, so you want people to call you a fuckstick if you say something on a forum?” Yep. If I say something stupid, absolutely. I’m aware of the stones I throw, they come from my own backyard.

It’s unfortunate that there are people who use religion to talk down to others or vilify them without merit, it’s tarnished a lot of truly amazing insight that can be found within multiple religions.

And anyone who is legitimately serious about knowing the history of religions should know at this point the big story has been told and re-told well before our current Roman calendar. I find that very interesting when people who claim their religion is the “only right one” completely ignore that their religion is primarily borrowed, re-titled and re-purposed over time. I think if the majority of Christians actually understood that the majority of their religion is pagan-based they’d freak the fuck out, even though the end goal/teachings bring them to the same place, as do the majority of religions.
There are many tragic errors in your thinking, and some epic blind spots, but I don't have time for all that so I'll point you to the poorest parts of your reasoning. First, you don't even know what a Christian is. You THINK you know, but you truly don't. The world does not define Christianity, which is why you don't even know what it actually is. The bible defines Christianity. Therefore, only people who strictly follow the bible (because that's exactly what it instructs and emphasizes) are Christians.

Now, you say you were "born, raised, and baptized Catholic." Yet, because you never actually tried to understand Christianity or Catholicism, you think up until this very day that Catholics are Christians. Not only that, but you have an acute blind spot that prevents you from even reasoning on the most basic level. Your whole story about priests touching kids, etc. asserts that it somehow makes that kind of thing representative of all Christianity. What pathetic reasoning dude! Why on earth haven't you ever considered these simple things?

In fact, if you ever read the bible then you would know Jesus rebuked MOST churches in the world, and said that corruption must be cleaned up at the churches first. The bible says satan "appears as an angel of light" and that there are "wolves in sheep's clothing," so even kids can understand that satan primarily attacks and infests the heart of Christian establishment in order to destroy it. As Jesus said, "A house divided against itself will fall" in reference to this method of satan's operation.

Uneducated people puke stupid things like, "Well Christianity tortured and murdered millions of people in the medieval era," blah, blah. Yet, everyone who says that never even used any amount of thought to consider that the people who commit atrocities or harm children were never, ever Christians to begin with. In fact, like you, most people don't even know what Christianity is. Do universities get to define Christianity? Do politicians get to define Christianity? No because even though they assume they can, only the bible can define Christianity.

I'll educate you on Catholicism since you know nothing about it. Catholicism is diametrically opposed to the 10 Commandments of the bible. "There shall be no other gods before Me," but Catholics venerate and worship Mary who is a created being. The 10 Commandments say, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth," yet Catholics worship and kiss the feet of statues and crucifixes. The Catholic church claims you should confess your sins to a priest, do Hail Mary's, and you can be absolved of sin. That doctrine basically contradicts Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, and supplants the Lord - who has already paid for our sins - with the Catholic establishment.

Not only that, Catholics rely on extrabiblical doctrine. Anyone who has been to a few Sunday school meetings knows the bible is the single written authority and that anything outside of it is an "anathema." Therefore, being that the bible is what defines Christianity and not the world, Catholics are not Christian because they do not follow biblical doctrine but their own proprietary, man-made doctrines.

Perhaps this can help you at least begin to consider how long you have held and cemented totally distorted beliefs. If you apply some real consideration to truth and fact, you may begin to see where you took a detour. In fact, the bible even provides a roadmap: Jesus said, "Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in there." You have chosen the broad gate that the rest of the world chooses because you simply accepted ideas and came up with all kinds of beliefs without ever actually applying logic and reason. The bible says, "My people perish for a lack of knowledge." Oh how true that is.

Lastly, your speech if full of sanctimony. You not only disparage and dismiss Christiantiy out of complete ignorance, but act like somehow you're more moral and enlightened. But look at your own profane speech and foul nature. Who are you to take the moral high ground, and who are you to judge Christianity? Sorry but your conduct does not reflect morality, rather, it's reflective of a reprobate mind. So next time you put an entire population of people down as if they lack your level of morality then realize your level of morality is miles below where you think it is.
 
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There are many tragic errors in your thinking, and some epic blind spots, but I don't have time for all that so I'll point you to the poorest parts of your reasoning. First, you don't even know what a Christian is. You THINK you know, but you truly don't. The world does not define Christianity, which is why you don't even know what it actually is. The bible defines Christianity. Therefore, only people who strictly follow the bible (because that's exactly what it instructs and emphasizes) are Christians.

Now, you say you were "born, raised, and baptized Catholic." Yet, because you never actually tried to understand Christianity or Catholicism, you think up until this very day that Catholics are Christians. Not only that, but you have an acute blind spot that prevents you from even reasoning on the most basic level. Your whole story about priests touching kids, etc. asserts that it somehow makes that kind of thing representative of all Christianity. What pathetic reasoning dude! Why on earth haven't you ever considered these simple things?

In fact, if you ever read the bible then you would know Jesus rebuked MOST churches in the world, and said that corruption must be cleaned up at the churches first. The bible says satan "appears as an angel of light" and that there are "wolves in sheep's clothing," so even kids can understand that satan primarily attacks and infests the heart of Christian establishment in order to destroy it. As Jesus said, "A house divided against itself will fall" in reference to this method of satan's operation.

Uneducated people puke stupid things like, "Well Christianity tortured and murdered millions of people in the medieval era," blah, blah. Yet, everyone who says that never even used any amount of thought to consider that the people who commit atrocities or harm children were never, ever Christians to begin with. In fact, like you, most people don't even know what Christianity is. Do universities get to define Christianity? Do politicians get to define Christianity? No because even though they assume they can, only the bible can define Christianity.

I'll educate you on Catholicism since you know nothing about it. Catholicism is diametrically opposed to the 10 Commandments of the bible. "There shall be no other gods before Me," but Catholics venerate and worship Mary who is a created being. The 10 Commandments say, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth," yet Catholics worship and kiss the feet of statues and crucifixes. The Catholic church claims you should confess your sins to a priest, do Hail Mary's, and you can be absolved of sin. That doctrine basically contradicts Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, and supplants the Lord - who has already paid for our sins - with the Catholic establishment.

Not only that, Catholics rely on extrabiblical doctrine. Anyone who has been to a few Sunday school meetings knows the bible is the single written authority and that anything outside of it is an "anathema." Therefore, being that the bible is what defines Christianity and not the world, Catholics are not Christian because they do not follow biblical doctrine but their own proprietary, man-made doctrines.

Perhaps this can help you at least begin to consider how long you have held and cemented totally distorted beliefs. If you apply some real consideration to truth and fact, you may begin to see where you took a detour. In fact, the bible even provides a roadmap: Jesus said, "Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in there." You have chosen the broad gate that the rest of the world chooses because you simply accepted ideas and came up with all kinds of beliefs without ever actually applying logic and reason. The bible says, "My people perish for a lack of knowledge." Oh how true that is.

Lastly, your speech if full of sanctimony. You not only disparage and dismiss Christiantiy out of complete ignorance, but act like somehow you're more moral and enlightened. But look at your own profane speech and foul nature. Who are you to take the moral high ground, and who are you to judge Christianity? Sorry but your conduct does not reflect morality, rather, it's reflective of a reprobate mind. So next time you put an entire population of people down as if they lack your level of morality then realize your level of morality is miles below where you think it is.

Hahahah I didn’t disparage Christianity at all, I‘ve found profound wisdom within in. It’s just the people like you on high horses that ruin it for everyone else. Just because I know how it was formed and the reasons it was formed doesn’t mean I find it useless. I just find it interesting that there are so many Christians who won’t go further past the Councils of Nicaea to find out how and why Christianity was bundled together in a neat little package while ignoring and condemning the religions it was formed out of.

By your own account, you’re doing Satan’s handiwork by turning people away from the religion by running your mouth.

I have no cemented beliefs, my outlook on the world and spirituality are constantly evolving as I learn more. It’s why I went from thinking I hated all organized religion to having a lot of respect for it, I just don’t consider your types to be a part of that. You’re exactly what’s wrong with organized religion. You forsake the wisdom and beauty that can be found in it to stroke your own ego and make yourself feel smart for a couple minutes on a guitar forum.
 
Too bad none of that is reflected in your speech and conduct. It's all hypocrisy. For example, you knew this is a Christian thread yet decided to stroll in to interject your incoherent, uneducated beliefs to disparage and dismiss Christianity (which you know absolutely nothing about). You didn't post it because of shared interest but to offend those who know more than you.

The thing is you operate like a stoned navigator. The first thing people gain from education is learning how to learn. Since you are uneducated, you don't have the ability to logically reason or methodically formulate ideas. All of your beliefs are gleaned off the surface of various things you hear, brief observations, and worldly precepts. You never dug down deep, sacrificed yourself, poured through thousands of pages, consulted hundreds of experts, or spent years pursuing truth and knowledge. You judge things by your own shallow, mundane observations, misguided ideals, and then settle on various beliefs as if somehow you figured it all out without any effort to validate them. Don't try to refute this because if you had an educated mind, it would reflect on what you do and how you do it.

There's so much pollution in what you said that it would take pages upon pages to instruct you in the error of your ways. However, you should first at least understand the very simple concept that no one can save themselves - as you just claimed you are able to do.

You did not create yourself, nor did you create the order of the universe that facilitates your coming into being. You are mortal and will surely die. You can't stop death, slow it down, or determine the time and manner in which it comes. You could be stricken with disease or calamity, and you have no control whatsoever of time and chance. Therefore, you have no power to save yourself. You cannot know what happens after death but you still live life as if it doesn't matter. You cannot control life, death, or even know what will become of your soul when you die. Thus, you've become comforted by your own contrived delusion.

You say your beliefs are based on various "epiphany moments," but that's like trying to find your way out of the wilderness just because you recognized a bush you passed by an hour ago. Without understanding where you are and how to get out, your 'epiphanies' amount to no more than recognizing you've already made the same mistake but never taking the logical steps necessary to resolve the condition that keeps you repeating your mistakes. That's why you can only modify your mistakes to essentially a version 2, version 3, etc. of the same mistakes.

You talk about sobriety as an end goal rather than the means to an end. People like you think, "If I can just get sober then everything will be OK." Either you never actually considered the purpose of sobriety or forgot about it as soon as you started. The purpose of sobriety is to be able to think and see clearly, and not make involuntary errors. Sobriety allows you to make better decisions, be more productive and capable, and not harm yourself or others needlessly. Yet look at yourself? You may have achieved sobriety but you never used it to develop your mind and reasoning. It's like, "Oh well I'm sober now so I'm good."

You say, "I don't need an imagined, omniscient being to lead me to epiphany moments." Well your intention in saying that is absurd but ironically you are right. An "omniscient being" wouldn't lead you back to your same mistakes, rather, would lead you through the way out. Your thought is so underdeveloped that it's like an impenetrable wall keeping you from seeing what's on the other side.

You don't even consider what you're saying. If GOD is imaginary then you're also saying that billions of people for thousands of years are stupider than you are; that they believe in fiction and somehow you're more sober-minded than anyone else. Ha! That's just crazy man. Based on what evidence do you assert GOD is an "imagined" being? You never studied archeology, history, geology, anthropology, biology, physics, genetics, etc., so how on earth do you think you can it's all imaginary? That's walking across an immense dinosaur graveyard with fossils and complete skeletal remains poking out of the ground everywhere but still saying, "There's no such thing as dinosaurs. It's imaginary, and everyone who believes in dinosaurs are stupider than I am."

Ironically, you've never seen a dinosaur but still believe they existed based on your minuscule exposure to archeological evidence and because the world tells you that. Yet, you've never even bothered to look at all the archeological, atomic, biological, geological evidence of GOD but somehow say it's all imaginary. Your beliefs don't even add up. Your reasoning doesn't hold water. The crazy thing is you babble as if you have some kind of sensible, sage knowledge to share with everyone.

Perhaps your most absurd belief is thinking you have the capacity to understand GOD. You even think you know better than GOD. If you didn't think that, then you wouldn't spew the nonsense you do. When you jut forth questions like, "Well if GOD is so perfect then why does He allow evil?" You see, in your little mind, that's a valid question. However, in the scope of universal reasoning, it's ridiculous. You know nothing about GOD because you blindly reject Him, but think somehow that you - a mere mortal who can't spare himself from death or chance - even know what questions to ask about GOD. More than that, you think somehow you could understand the answer if He gave it to you! Ha!

Well, I really don't care how you react to this or what you will say but I do hope that you'll at least absorb it secretly and try to develop some essential logic and reasoning.
Dude you need to lighten up. Beater and Rev were way more polite than you. You just spew arrogance with nearly every post you make in OTC. I've been trying to overlook that but it isn't an easy feat. Relax a bit mate I don't think they were insulting you or Christianity. Seems they were just stating his viewpoint on the subject as was I. No disrespect meant.
 
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MistahGuitah thinks Protestants somehow magically appeared out of thin air.
 
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