How do get this tone?

[guitarmike]

I always struggle with pitch shifting/detune/chorus effects. I'd like to get this type of tone:

Any ideas? I have a 1974 Friedman modded Marshall, 4x12 with 2 Scumback M75's and 2 old Creambacks. For effects I have a G Major, Boss PS-5, CE-2, BF-2, a vintage Phase 90, an old Didgedelay, and a RV-2

Thank you!

 

[tnourse]

I saw these guys back in the day. The singer is now the singer with Foreigner. Guess he's doing a great job.

**Sorry to hi-jack your post** Not sure how to get that tone. Sounds like an ADA unit?

 

[Badronald]

That's 80's studio voodoo. Any one of the stereo rack mount units. Yamaha?

I can simulate it pretty good with the mix up on a CH-1. I had a similar tone going last night at rehearsal. We were in a big room with an array p.a. and I had my rig cranked up to about 4.5 and it sounded huge.
I'm in a trio so I hit the CH-1 when we get to the chorus of a song to spread the sound out. Old trick. Works well. I typically have the mix set pretty low though so it's not too crazy. Turn it right off when I get to a heavy riff.
Sounds cool also for solo's. Not too much, just a little. It gets old quick if you use too much.

 

[OUTLAW1969]

I think Doug Aldrich only played on that one album, so there has to be an equipment list from the tour, floating around somewhere.

 

[lll]

Most likely an Eventide Harmonizer (such as two H910s, slightly detuned with a small delay) with very light pitch shifting.

These were very popular back then for that 80s chorus tone.

 

[anomaly]

Lots and lots of cheese... gouda, cheddar, mozza, parmesan...etc... You will get there.

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

Pretty easy actually. EL34 amp boosted. Use a lexicon processor with chorus reverb. Good to go.

 

[Anonymous]

My band played with these guys a bunch of times in the mid-80s back before they got signed. Rudy Sarzo's brother was playing guitar then, though and Carlos Carvazo's brother was playing bass. They had a killer rehearsal place in a storage unit near downtown and some decent money behind them. Kelly is a great singer now in Foreigner and he was great early on with Hurricane as well..

As far as the sound, this is classic 80s micropiitchshifted, dual delayed, Modded Marshall tone that every band in LA was doing then. Your Friedman Marshall is perfect for this tone, but he's running W/D/W with up/down micropitchshift and two different delays left and right.

The way I get this tone is one of my amps direct to a center cab, then line out to an Eventide Pitchfactor set for +9 cents L/-9 cents R micropitchshift into two SDE 3000s Left set for 500ms delay and Right set for 250ms delay, single repeats, out to a stereo GT800FX into left and right cabs. I leave some dry sound in the L and R cabs.

I don't think you need reverb...

Now, I know that doesn't tell you how to do it with your stuff. So... Can the G Major do some pitchshiting? Even a slight detune would get you close, you could also try your chorus, but detune/micropitchshifting is what you hear there. Add in some delay in the 250-500ms range, single repeat. Run a lot of dry sound from you processor. You can't go stereo or W/D/W with the gear you have, so you are always going to be approximating what you hear in that recording...

Steve

 

[guitarmike]

Thanks guys,

I do have another amp and an EH 44 magnum along with some GB loaded cabs. I tried wet/dry and some of Steve and Badronald's ideas and I have to say that I am closer now than before so thank you guys! Unfortunately as you may know, I had 4 more back surgeries this year so there will not be any way I am going to move all of that stuff out of the house, but at least at home it sounds killer. It is amazing how much fuller your sound gets running stereo or wet/dry.

Thanks again!

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Lots and lots of cheese... gouda, cheddar, mozza, parmesan...etc... You will get there.

LOL. I'm glad I grew out of that phase.

 

[psychodave]

I spoke to Mark Cameron tonight and he commented to me about this threads question.

Doug is using a Frank Levi modded amp like the 39 amp. PQ3 in front. Same tone as like the Lion days. (Billy squire used the same mod) Chorusing was done in the mixing process and was added after the fact. Doug wasn't happy with it since he triple tracked many parts for natural chorusing...sounded weird with chorus added after the fact. For the tour Doug used a Martin or suhr (Bradshaw) modded stuff because he needed a loop to add chorus so he could sound like the record and that the levi amp didn't have a loop. The amp was then remodded by them so the loop would work (gain/voicing mods included). Doug got another suhr amp that he liked better and then had Mark mod the first one (hence the Aldrich mod name). And there you have it. Accurate info from Doug.

 

[Racerxrated]

Thanks guys,

I do have another amp and an EH 44 magnum along with some GB loaded cabs. I tried wet/dry and some of Steve and Badronald's ideas and I have to say that I am closer now than before so thank you guys! Unfortunately as you may know, I had 4 more back surgeries this year so there will not be any way I am going to move all of that stuff out of the house, but at least at home it sounds killer. It is amazing how much fuller your sound gets running stereo or wet/dry.

Thanks again!

I grabbed a cheap boss chorus just for this reason....don't gig stereo but it sure is fun to run 2 amps by using a chorus at home.....

 

['63-Strat]

I spoke to Mark Cameron tonight and he commented to me about this threads question.

Doug is using a Frank Levi modded amp like the 39 amp. PQ3 in front. Same tone as like the Lion days. (Billy squire used the same mod) Chorusing was done in the mixing process and was added after the fact. Doug wasn't happy with it since he triple tracked many parts for natural chorusing...sounded weird with chorus added after the fact. For the tour Doug used a Martin or suhr (Bradshaw) modded stuff because he needed a loop to add chorus so he could sound like the record and that the levi amp didn't have a loop. The amp was then remodded by them so the loop would work (gain/voicing mods included). Doug grew tired of the sound and had Mark mod it (hence the Aldrich mod name). And there you have it. Accurate info from Doug.

Cool to know

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Sounds like those Levi modded amps were on a lot of people's hit lists back in the day. One question though, wouldn't it be the 36 mod? I thought caswell did the 39. Doesn't really matter though, modded Marshall and pq3 seem to be those tones or just the pq3 slamming a Marshall. Double tracking and a splash of chorus or one slapback delay setting also seem to be common. The biggest factor are these guys double or triple tracking which would give the detuned effect I would think. Hard to do consistently as well and takes practice.

 

[Speeddemon]

Guitarmike, do you have a guitar with a Duncan JB or DiMarzio Norton? Because that chewy, bright alnico stuff is also part of this tone.
When I got my ESP with its stock pickups ('59 neck, JB bridge), it was instant DeMartini meets Gillis. But since I wanted more power, I switched to a Screamin' Demon neck and Custom 5 (SH-14) bridge. But I digress...

The stereo widening can also be achieved by running a really short delay (25-35ms, one repeat, 100% wet) in a stereo config.
Then I'd use the PS-5 for some detuning.
As mentioned before, on this guitartone the verb isn't that big; some small room or dark plate would be enough.

 

[mdc1mdc11]

guitar tone sounds similar to Zakk Wylde on that No More Tears album.

 

[psychodave]

Sounds like those Levi modded amps were on a lot of people's hit lists back in the day. One question though, wouldn't it be the 36 mod? I thought caswell did the 39. Doesn't really matter though, modded Marshall and pq3 seem to be those tones or just the pq3 slamming a Marshall. Double tracking and a splash of chorus or one slapback delay setting also seem to be common. The biggest factor are these guys double or triple tracking which would give the detuned effect I would think. Hard to do consistently as well and takes practice.

Yeah, it was a 36 mod. Also, Doug wasn't tired of the amp, he just got another Shur all that he liked better.

I edited my first post to make it more accurate.

 

[petejt]

It sounds rather swooshy. You could easily get close to it by setting a slow speed and a large Width and/or Depth.
The larger Width extends the delay time- which causes more modulation in the (de)tuning.

Be careful though because it can get rather warbly, although for this application that's probably fine.

Run it in the effects loop so it gets hit with a very hot signal- that exaggerates the swooshiness.

Another thing is that the guitarist might be slightly bending the strings during that big power chord in the riff. That'll make the modulation swing out and swell even more, without having to overdo the settings (otherwise the whole lot sounds too warbly).

EDIT: By the way you have everything you'd need to replicate this guitar sound, short of the aforementioned Eventide Harmonisers that may have been involved (the G-Major would easily suffice). But try the other units with it too if you like.

 

[fretout]

guitar tone sounds similar to Zakk Wylde on that No More Tears album.

I concur.

There was even some of this affect done on Metallica's Master Of Puppets, but IIRC, they ran a flanger of some sort to get the depth. If you get a program that allows you to slow down the tracks from the album, the "modulation" can be identified.

 

[shredhead7]

With the gear that you have, you should be able to get damn near close. I have an JCM 800 with the Cameron Aldrich mod, and using an Alesis quadraverb in the loop with some chorusing and delay, gets pretty close. For your setup, your amp is pretty close, just add chorus with your CE-2 and some delay with the G-Major. I have the G-Major 2 and to my ears, the modulation effects in the TC gear is a little too sterile/digital, so use your pedal for that. As an alternate, you could try to detune one side of the signal, if you have a stereo setup.