How the West Brought War to Ukraine

[pazuzu-bootsy-baphomet-jr]

Well, America is a NATO country, and it's being invaded right now.

The "state actor" is whoever is pulling Biden's strings.

OK dude

Let me break this down for you even though i think you’re just pulling my leg

We’re talking about
MILITARY alliances

that means we’re talking about MILITARY invasions
by STATE ACTORS which means nation-states also colloquially referred to as “countries”

for fuck’s sake try to follow along

 

[Ben Waylin]

OK dude

Let me break this down for you even though i think you’re just pulling my leg

We’re talking about
MILITARY alliances

that means we’re talking about MILITARY invasions
by STATE ACTORS which means nation-states also colloquially referred to as “countries”

for fuck’s sake try to follow along

Who do you think has been flooding across the southern border for the past 18 months ?

 

[pazuzu-bootsy-baphomet-jr]

Who do you think has been flooding across the southern border for the past 18 months ?

You tell me, Poindexter

 

[Thumbpicker]

Don't worry - the US was late to WW1 and WW2... If there's WW3 I'm sure they'll be true to form and they'll also claim they won it despite everyone else fighting for years beforehand.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Don't worry - the US was late to WW1 and WW2... If there's WW3 I'm sure they'll be true to form and they'll also claim they won it despite everyone else fighting for years beforehand.

So the US was hesitant to join in the European war ( WWII) until we were personally attacked. Most people these days would say that’s not a bad thing. And if you think the Americans didn’t win that war you guys have WAY better drugs down there than the rest of the world, who disagrees with you.

 

[Thumbpicker]

So the US was hesitant to join in the European war ( WWII) until we were personally attacked. Most people these days would say that’s not a bad thing. And if you think the Americans didn’t win that war you guys have WAY better drugs down there than the rest of the world, who disagrees with you.

No they didn't win the war. They contributed after the allies had fought for years. In point of fact Russia did just as much to turn the tide. The US sat on the fence for years and joined out of self interest like usual as you pointed out. The US habit of saying "we won the war" is frankly an insult to the rest of the allies. Yes the US joining the war helped to break the back of the Axis but it was far from just them who "won the war". If it wasn't for the rest of the allies there wouldn't have been a war for the US to have joined.

 

[pazuzu-bootsy-baphomet-jr]

No they didn't win the war. They contributed after the allies had fought for years. In point of fact Russia did just as much to turn the tide. The US sat on the fence for years and joined out of self interest like usual as you pointed out. The US habit of saying "we won the war" is an insult to the rest of the allies.

^^ this is accurate

Obviously I am no fan of imperial or communist Russia, but there is no doubt whatsoever that Russia’s absolute tenacity and grim resolve on the Eastern Front, brutally siphoning the Germans’ resources and resolve, was one of the biggest, and very arguably THE biggest, factor in the ultimate Allied victory

 

[Thumbpicker]

^^ this is accurate

Obviously I am no fan of imperial or communist Russia, but there is no doubt whatsoever that Russia’s absolute tenacity and grim resolve on the Eastern Front, brutally siphoning the Germans’ resources and resolve, was one of the biggest, and very arguably THE biggest, factor in the ultimate Allied victory

The most ironic thing about Russia is they then (upon winning) did the very thing we were fighting against. Invaded a whole bunch of countries for essentially "lebensraum". Just like Germany did at the beginning of the war. That is essentially what they are attempting to do again now in Ukraine as well. It is also what China is trying on for size in the East China Sea.

 

[pazuzu-bootsy-baphomet-jr]

The most ironic thing about Russia is they then (upon winning) did the very thing we were fighting against. Invaded a whole bunch of countries for essentially "lebensraum".

100% correct, and a great demonstration of how totalitarianism is evil no matter what its guise

 

[Floyd Eye]

Both you guys are high. America stays out of WW2, Europe is all speaking German today. With no western front to worry about and no Russian winter, Germany rolls over the Red Army.

And no one is discounting the sacrifices the Europeans made to save their lives. Or the many Australians who died aiding Europe in its struggle. Or any of the other Allies. But Hitler wasn’t invading the US was he. And as brave and effective as the Australian Army was, they simply didn’t have the manpower or the resources to get it done without the US. The US sacrificed thousands and thousands of lives to come to the aid of Europe. Not the aid of America, the aid of Europe. Belittling the US over WW2 when so many of our fathers and uncles and sons died for that cause earns a big Fuck You from me.

 

[Thumbpicker]

Both you guys are high. America stays out of WW2, Europe is all speaking German today. With no western front to worry about and no Russian winter, Germany rolls over the Red Army.

And no one is discounting the sacrifices the Europeans made to save their lives. Or the many Australians who died aiding Europe in its struggle. Or any of the other Allies. But Hitler wasn’t invading the US was he. And as brave and effective as the Australian Army was, they simply didn’t have the manpower or the resources to get it done without the US. The US sacrificed thousands and thousands of lives to come to the aid of Europe. Not the aid of America, the aid of Europe. Belittling the US over WW2 when so many of our fathers and uncles and sons died for that cause earns a big Fuck You from me.

I'm objecting to the habit of some people in the US saying "we won the war". It's like someone fresh coming into a boxing match for the world title, getting tagged and knocking out the competitor who had been fighting for nine rounds. It's rude and that's why it's earning a big fuck you from me when many of our fathers uncles and sons died for that cause and it has always rankled us and the Brits as well I know that because it's often the subject of humour in comedies.

 

[pazuzu-bootsy-baphomet-jr]

Both you guys are high. America stays out of WW2, Europe is all speaking German today. With no western front to worry about and no Russian winter, Germany rolls over the Red Army.

And no one is discounting the sacrifices the Europeans made to save their lives. Or the many Australians who died aiding Europe in its struggle. Or any of the other Allies. But Hitler wasn’t invading the US was he. And as brave and effective as the Australian Army was, they simply didn’t have the manpower or the resources to get it done without the US. The US sacrificed thousands and thousands of lives to come to the aid of Europe. Not the aid of America, the aid of Europe. Belittling the US over WW2 when so many of our fathers and uncles and sons died for that cause earns a big Fuck You from me.

I am BY NO MEANS belittling the role of the USA in the Allied victory

EDIT: I see where you might have gotten this impression from my quote of Thumbpicker’s post; I was agreeing with his assessment of the Eastern Front’s importance, not the other aspects

It’s possible to acknowledge the importance of the Eastern Front without denigrating the importance of the Western Front

Several of my ancestors died in WWII (and in previous and subsequent American wars), and I’m firmly of the opinion that US involvement was necessary for Allied victory

 

[Thumbpicker]

I am BY NO MEANS belittling the role of the USA in the Allied victory

It’s possible to acknowledge the importance of the Eastern Front without denigrating the importance of the Western Front

Several of my ancestors died in WWII (and in previous and subsequent American wars), and I’m firmly of the opinion that US involvement was necessary for Allied victory

I agree with that and that's a better way of putting it than a crass yank saying "we (the US) won the war".

 

[Floyd Eye]

I personally don’t know anyone nor have I heard of anyone who claimed the US won the war by themselves, but anyone who thinks it would have been won without our involvement is mentally challenged.

 

[Floyd Eye]

John Lennon claimed the English Army won the war. Dig him up and he punch him in that big, crooked nose.

 

[Ben Waylin]

If Germany has developed the ME-262 as an air superiority fighter sooner, it could have turned the tide of the air campaign over Europe.

 

[pazuzu-bootsy-baphomet-jr]

John Lennon claimed the English Army won the war. Dig him up and he punch him in that big, crooked nose.

Some of his music is OK but i have doubts about his level of expertise in history or military affairs

 

[Thumbpicker]

I personally don’t know anyone nor have I heard of anyone who claimed the US won the war by themselves, but anyone who thinks it would have been won without our involvement is mentally challenged.

They often claim it - I've personally seen it many times. The last part of what you said is not what I said however if someone said "We won the war" I would say no you didn't every single time for all the reasons I said.

 

[Thumbpicker]

If Germany has developed the ME-262 as an air superiority fighter sooner, it could have turned the tide of the air campaign over Europe.

Well there was the Gloster Meteor....

 

[Findthetone1]

I agree with that and that's a better way of putting it than a crass yank saying "we (the US) won the war".

Were do you live?