How to put this rig together... anyone care to help? VH4 amp

[Anonymous]

Amp/Effects Switching Device/Midi Controller

-RJM Rack Gizmo

-RJM Mini Line Mixer

I still currently need a midi footcontroller that can handle all this midi, and another device from either Kyle from Rhodes, or another RJM product such as the effects gizmo. Whatever I get, it has to be capable of adding another 2 amps which will be a PT-100 or OD-100, and some type of Vox AC30, Morgan, ect...

Amps-PowerAmp-Preamp
-VH4 (Midi)
-Mesa Triple Rec 2 channel
-Randall RT 2/50 (Midi)
-Randall RM 1250 (Midi)
-Egnater M4 (Midi)

Cabs
-Diezel 4x12 (Dry cab)
-x2 Port City OS 1x12 (Wet cabs)

Power Supplies
-Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2+
-Voodoo Labs Pedal Power Digital

Pedals/Effects

Overdrives/Distortions
-Maxon 808
-Bloody Murder
-BB Preamp MB
-Tim
-Boss SD1
-Zvex Fuzz Factory

Effects and other pedals
-Suhr ISO Box
-Keeley compressor
-Turbo tuner
-Boss noise gate
-ISP Decimator
-Source Audio Programmable EQ (midi)
-Strymon Timeline (Midi) (Stereo)
-Glass Nexus (Midi) (Stereo)

 

[Anonymous]

Im not asking for someone to help me %100 with no effort on my half, I actually just want to talk about placement of certain pedals and how to get this set up correctly for optimal use. I have some concerns about how to properly draw up the schematic and will first start by addressing a question about the Suhr ISO Box.

How would this Suhr ISO Box get connected starting out without anything else but the RJM Rack Gizmo, Diezel VH4, Randall RT 2/50, Egnater M4, all hooked up in a W/D/W configuration with mentioned cabinets? I am using the Suhr ISO Box to my understanding to achieve sending the tone of the VH4 through to my wet cabs... is that fair to assume that this is correct?

Also, idealy I would like to utilize the M4 into this "bare bones" schematic through the power section of the VH4 because if not, then I imagine I couldnt utilize the M4 going through my 4x12 dry cab, only through the pair of 1x12 wet cabs if it were to be running though the Randall Power amp... see this shit is boggling my mind already!!! This is the thought process before even getting more in depth with adding the rest of the pieces... ugh!!!

Pictures are provided of the back panels of the RJM, VH4, Randall, and M4 for a reference in helping draw out a mock up schematic if someone would be kind enough to lend a helping hand. Thank you very much!!!

 

[glassjaw7]

Hit up Casey Hanson!

 

[cardinal]

I'm a bit confused. You want the dry tone of the VH4 and to send it to stereo wet cabs? I think you'll need a line out from the VH4 to a stereo power amp. I think Suhr's is called the ISO line out box or something along those lines.

 

[Anonymous]

I got you covered... I was just finishing up my revision to my 2nd post. Check it out if you dont mind.

I think Reza would be able to help out with this as well... along with Casey perhaps. I just might contact Ron at RJM, or John at Suhr to see what they think as well but thought some of you guys would enjoy the challenge and to help out a fellow Rig Talker. I will take you guys through this complete process though if you have the time to follow it. I love stuff like this but however, its my first build so I want to get it right and add the elements one piece at a time to eliminate any other hassles that come along the way such as ground looping, ect.

Looking at all this gear has really been intimidating for me the past 6 months, and I sold off a shit ton just to keep these pieces, so I have to tackle this. I know its possible, and all I have to do is set it up a little at a time and I will get this all squared away!

 

[chumbucket]

Here are the basics. You can flesh it out later with pedals and effects.
Guitar->pedals->Split to two outputs->each split to the V4 and M4->line out from M4 / master send from v4 to a loop on the rack gizmo> out from rack gizmo sent back to V4 master return-> V4 speaker out to dry cab/ Suhr ISO-> Suhr ISO to rack effects->rack effects to power amp->power amp to wet speakers

Get the basics working first and then go back and add in the mixer and midi and all that cumbersome bullshit last. Oh yeah, be prepared for a ground loop somewhere along the way as well. That's another reason that it works better going one piece at a time.

 

[Anonymous]

Thats exactly what I figured, that ground loops are inevitable!!!

You have a PM coming by the way, and thank you for some of that advice.

 

[cardinal]

I think you could put the Randall preamp into one of the VH4's channel inserts. Then set up a patch that bypasses the front of the VH4 but activates whatever channel + channel insert you have the Randall plugged into. Then just run everything out of the VH4 (parallel/serial loops, line out, etc.).

 

[Anonymous]

I tried to fit all the components minus the 4x12 dry cab and 1x12 wet cabs into a picture that can easily be altered with microsoft paint or any editing program.

Would anyone mind taking the picture Ive provided and use colored lines to connect the pieces of equipment together properly for me? This is confusing when someone tries to tell me in the form of guitar>amp>ISO>ect... I just cant process it correctly and its frustrating that I cant without it being visual.

Anyone feel like helping? If you cant load the picture up for some reason... just PM me and I will send it to you.

Thanks, Chad

 

[chumbucket]

I think you could put the Randall preamp into one of the VH4's channel inserts. Then set up a patch that bypasses the front of the VH4 but activates whatever channel + channel insert you have the Randall plugged into. Then just run everything out of the VH4 (parallel/serial loops, line out, etc.).

I'm not familiar with the V4 but wouldn't the channel insert be like an effects loop in that it goes out from preamp and back into poweramp? I've done something similar to what the OP spoke of different amps/preamps and I just switched the FX loop send with the output from a preamp and with good success I might add. Nothing as elaborate as what he has in mind here though...

 

[cardinal]

Yes, that's what the channel inserts are. They are switchable series loops, which I think will allow you to patch in an external preamp. The amp also has a global serial loop, but I think it's not MIDI switchable (pretty sure only the parallel loop is MIDI switchable). So, you'd want to use the channel inserts for the external preamp so that that you can MIDI switch between the VH4 and the Randall. Plus, he can buy three more external preamp (one for each channel insert)!

 

[Anonymous]

I think you could put the Randall preamp into one of the VH4's channel inserts. Then set up a patch that bypasses the front of the VH4 but activates whatever channel + channel insert you have the Randall plugged into. Then just run everything out of the VH4 (parallel/serial loops, line out, etc.).

This makes the most sense to me so far, and what I think you meant to say was Egnater preamp instead of Randall preamp. I would set up a patch like you say to bypass, but wouldnt it be to bypass the preamp section of the VH4?

I think I would be able to change each module and each modules channel VIA MIDI through the VH4's power section, and that would be a pretty sweet setup! So would the Egnater running through the VH4's power section still be able to utilize the effects in the VH4's loop? I know a stupid question, but I have to ask... Im guessing since the pair in question (VH4/Egnater M4) are both midi, then its only a matter of setting it all up that way to turn the loop on or off with or without the Egnater M4 with a midi controller, anyone know if it should be possible that way?

 

[cardinal]

You need to plug your guitar into a MIDI controllable A/B switcher that sends one out to the VH4 and the other to the Egnator. Then, for the sake of example, plug the out of the Egnator into the return of the VH4's Channel Insert One.

If Output A goes to the VH4, you just have one set of patches using output A that controls the VH4 as normal.

If Output B goes to the Egnator, you have one set of patches that activates Output B + Channel One of the VH4 + Channel Insert Loop. That should bypass the front of the VH4 and give you the Egnator through the VH4's power amp.

You should be able to use both global loops of the VH4, but if the VH4 is your dry tone, you wouldn't use either. Instead, you'll run a line out from the VH4 to your stereo power amp and run the effects there.

 

[Jordon]

Aren't the VH4 channel inserts technically PRE-preamp? That's what I remember reading in the manual.

 

[Anonymous]

I dont know... so confusing! This is gonna be a long process I imagine!

I want to gain knowledge and not cheat by sending the pedals and gear to pay someone to do it for me.... Im guessing there are alot of ways that this can be done. I just "simply" want to use the VH4 as the main amp and effects amp and to also run the Egnater M4 through the power section.

The Mesa will only use the mxr in its loop and an OD out front.

The Randall power amp to be used as a wet stereo power amp.

OD's/distortion Pedals, tuner, compressor, noise gate out front.... Im trying to set up a gate like Bulb from periphery uses.

Here is what someone else said about thier setup...

When they were doing analog rigs, they would go

compressor --> gate --> OD --> gate

Personally, I find gates on their own kind of choke your tone. Although boosting's almost never a bad idea, I find it necessary to boost with a gate. The compressor's there mostly as a signal boost (low compression, high volume) to keep said signal strong, but it's great for juicing up your tone a bit, too.

With two gates, the first gate starts to close, leaving less signal for the second gate, so it can close faster. With a compressor and OD, though, you shouldn't lose much (if any) sustain.

They start talking about this stuff at 2:00 in this video.

Timeline, Glass Nexus, and WET Stereo Reverb, to my understanding are to be run through the serial loop of the M4... could someone please confirm that, and how that chain would be set up? I really like the WET even though it isnt midi... it has its purpose!

The only thing left in question is how to properly set the damn M4 up through the power section of the VH4... I tend to think that cardinal might be on the right path here! Jordon has me questioning more things about each channels insert actually being the preamp... damn, I need verification from Peter D or Peter S!!!

Someone help me draw out a cheezy wiring schematic diagram with the picture that I have please!

 

[cardinal]

I don't use effects, so I've never played with the loops on this thing. Pretty sure I've read a post from Peter D that the inserts are after the preamp.

EDIT: here you go. Inserts are after the preamp, before the main loops. Scroll down to Peter's post.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=100351

 

[Anonymous]

So is it safe to say that this is what I would need, or for the price is the RJM Y-Not overkill in this department?

 

[snowdog]

Since you found enough money to buy all this gear, why not dig up a little more and have somebody that knows what they are doing put it together for you ? This is a fairly complex set up you are going for and it seems to me you are unlikely to get it working the way you want it to.

 

[Anonymous]

Because if I do that, then I wont ever learn jack shit!!! I appreciate your input, but Im going to do this build myself, with the collective help of Rig Talk, RJM, Suhr combined when I get their undivided attention and a chance to have them respond back to some of my emails.

Even Friedman, Bradshaw, Ron (RJM), Kyle Rhodes had to start somewhere, right?

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, lets take the m4 out of the equation then... what do you guys think now? Much easier, right! I might just sell it off sometime soon, but would prefer not to.