i forgot Pantera rules

[colimofsmoke]

derail away...

 

[Anonymous]

i do apologize for this....i didnt mean to.

i miss dime. i miss pantera.

anyone else ever notice HOW FUCKIN killer the solo in throes of rejection is?
3:00 and on and its just pure dime, true to form mayhem....

jebus! i been geeked on that one for years....



for me, it's up there with the bad horsie solo from vai....around the 4:31 mark

 

[colimofsmoke]

seriously, don't mind a bit. conversation goes where it goes...

 

[D-Rock]

I started listening to Pantera when I was 13 in 1993, but for me it was Vulgar first. I immediately went back and got Cowboys and was captivated. Nothing compared to that a that time of the 90's. They were cool, rough, and badass dudes playing pissed off modern metal.
Then, imagine how pumped I was when in 1994, FBD came out.
Those were my formidable years. Sex drugs and metal. What an incredible time in my life that was. Smoking, drinking, toking and just generally fucking shit up.
Easily in my top 3 bands of all time.

 

[Mailman1971]

I Was stationed overseas during the 90's....was a little late to the Pantera trip. I only listened to the CD's I knew from the 80's. Came back to America for a visit and my friend tells me..."Dude...YOU HAVE TO CHECK THIS BAND OUT!!"
Tossed in Far Beyond Driven....played "I'm Broken".....
my jaw dropped. It was just insane sounding!!
I went from Metallica....Anthrax....Megadeth thrash for years. And then heard Dimebag?
Shit was a whole NEW LEVEL!
Been a fan since.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Friend of mine threw on CFH in late 90-91. I can honestly say that I've listened to something from Pantera every day since then. 6 disc changer in my truck, and 2 of them are Pantera discs, always. My wife knows better than to move them/take them out. Dime was the ace.

 

[petejt]

and a flanger trick he used for stationary frequencies (i forget the guys name for that trick)....

"Stationery frequencies"? Hmmm, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean he filtered his signal with the flanger by setting it to a minimal Rate and had the Manual (delay time) control at a particular spot? Where?

yes
all over the whole FBD album. i know i read it somewhere back in the mid/late 90's. he mentioned it in an article.

if you listen back to it, compared to cowboys and vulgar, those two had a less processed, rawer solid state sound.

FBD has a really deep, lowmid vocal quality to the rhythm tracks.

there's a certain dude that was famous for doing that with flangers..i forget his name though.... using the delay or manual for notch eq frequencies.

Thanks for the info Hopefully that article can be tracked down somewhere.

It wasn't Michael Wagner that did the flanger trick you mentioned? He said here in this very forum he used a subtle flanger effecct deep in the mix for Metallica's The Thing that Should Not Be back in 1985. I think he said he used a Lexicon Primetime 93 processor. It gave just this very slight deep swirl- which formed part of the root why I like chorusing so much.


Do you know if he did the flanger trick with The Great Southern Trendkill? Obviously apart from 10's where you can clearly hear a lush flanger/chorus effect.

it's not the type of standard flanging you might be thinking of. it's more of a filter effect. each notch on the manual or delay (depending on the pedal you're using) changes the filter frequency...and it's stationary...it doesn't move. im looking for the article...i remember him referencing something from metallica, but i think it was AJFA that he mentioned they did this for.....we're talking almost 20 years ago at this point...and im getting old. now im starting do doubt myself.... anyone else remember this?

Oh okay. Yep definitely different than what I thought. I think you can also do that with the Electric Mistress flangers by switching them to the Filter Matrix Mode. It basically stops the sweeping and the Rate controls the filter like you said.
I think Andy Summers from The Police did that on Canary in a Coal Mine back in 1980, as a very different 'flanger' sound rather than the syrupy swirl you hear on De do do do, do da da da.

I'm surprised Dimebag mentioned Metallica- I've never at all ever heard of them using a flanger as a frequency filter, particularly for ...And Justice For All. As far as I know that album was just a pile of Boogie amps layered on top of each other with extra parametric equalisers in the effects loops, plus further eq'ing in the mixing desk.

 

[petejt]

I dont remember the article, bu its an old trick we used to use with the old digiteck stuff, gsp21's etc...
The phaser, chorus, can be set at zero rate, and the you set the freq, and you can pull it up or down in the signal. Thats the only processor i ever used that could do the zero rate thing, like a freq filter..

You wouldn't happen to remember what frequency it was? And was that frequency boosted or scooped?

 

[petejt]

I guess, quite frankly I just don't understand why people have an indepth conversation about Dime's tone, in reality. I realize this is a gear forum but I mean, why? It's DIME! I mean, some bands and some guitarists are so good, and had such an impact on music and rock history in itself, that his guitar "tone" shouldn't even really come up as a point of discussion. Because 99 percent of people in the "real" world would say..."wtf? WHO CARES! IT WAS HEAVY!!!" I guess. I dunno, maybe it's just me, but Dime had such an impact on me as a player that I could care less if his tone sounded like a mouse fart through a gorilla amp. Same goes for Randy Rhoads, I'll never understand why people would WANT TO chase that tone, but at the same time, I don't know why it even gets brought up, for the same reasons mentioned above. Dimes tone WAS Dime, Pantera would not have been Pantera if Dime didn't sound like that (DIME), atleast in my opinion...Flame repressive suit ON!

I don't see the issue....what's wrong with learning about things? Just because someone was good at what they had done, doesn't mean people can't discuss particular aspects about them.

Lots of people love Shakespeare's plays, but surely there's no harm in a few folks discussing his use of iambic pentameter for centuries on end. Yes, people have been STUDYING that stuff for centuries.

And you rant about some folks on a gear-centric internet forum about chatting guitar tones that are barely twenty years old, just because the music was successful and "99% of people in the 'real' world' could care less?
Prepare to be sizzled in a shower of napalm!

 

[stefvorcide]

seriously, don't mind a bit. conversation goes where it goes...

sorry, i did kinda derail this thread..but to me, you can't talk pantera without talking dime without talking his tone at some point....like many guitarists, his tone evolved, yet was still really harsh sounding.

+1. I mean... His lead playing was stellar, so much feeling went in each and every note. every vibrato was vibrant, like it was the only note on the record. the rythm playing was crushing like nobody-ever-did before, (except on CFH, its not that heavy) but boy that tone was RAW, sterile and yes I dare to say it : UGLY, but what the hell, did it workd !!

I started listening to Pantera when I was 13 in 1993, but for me it was Vulgar first. I immediately went back and got Cowboys and was captivated. Nothing compared to that a that time of the 90's. They were cool, rough, and badass dudes playing pissed off modern metal.
Then, imagine how pumped I was when in 1994, FBD came out.
Those were my formidable years. Sex drugs and metal. What an incredible time in my life that was. Smoking, drinking, toking and just generally fucking shit up.
Easily in my top 3 bands of all time.

I am lil younger, discovered 'em about that same age, but when I got hooked on PANTERA it was for a long time


If I didn't had a cool avatar, I'd change it for the southern trendkill cover

 

[Anonymous]

I dont remember the article, bu its an old trick we used to use with the old digiteck stuff, gsp21's etc...
The phaser, chorus, can be set at zero rate, and the you set the freq, and you can pull it up or down in the signal. Thats the only processor i ever used that could do the zero rate thing, like a freq filter..

You wouldn't happen to remember what frequency it was? And was that frequency boosted or scooped?

i dont. there wasn't any chart or designation for it...it was just this little trick that i did when i wanted certain frequencies in the white noise spectrum of my digitech preamp distortion to stick out more, and sound even more sterile. usually, i had it set on one of the first 4 settings from zero....basically, imagine how the flanger swooshes in the "jet" sound setting....then imagine stopping it there, in a certain "frame"....it's sort of a tunnel like effect, but, the key was, mixing it in sparingly for more laser beam type stun sound or something. i dont know. i haven't used it in years, and probably remember it being better than it was....
point is, i was able to match that low mid growl voice of dime's solid state distortion sound to the beginning of becoming...the low part of the riff in the very beginning of the song...at least, match it as best i could with my ear playing along with it. the frequency notch trick i guess is what you could call a less transparent parametric eq.

the effect though, i can definitely hear clearly on FBD on all the songs...sort of tunnelly.

 

[Anonymous]

I dont remember the article, bu its an old trick we used to use with the old digiteck stuff, gsp21's etc...
The phaser, chorus, can be set at zero rate, and the you set the freq, and you can pull it up or down in the signal. Thats the only processor i ever used that could do the zero rate thing, like a freq filter..

You wouldn't happen to remember what frequency it was? And was that frequency boosted or scooped?

i dont. there wasn't any chart or designation for it...it was just this little trick that i did when i wanted certain frequencies in the white noise spectrum of my digitech preamp distortion to stick out more, and sound even more sterile. usually, i had it set on one of the first 4 settings from zero....basically, imagine how the flanger swooshes in the "jet" sound setting....then imagine stopping it there, in a certain "frame"....it's sort of a tunnel like effect, but, the key was, mixing it in sparingly for more laser beam type stun sound or something. i dont know. i haven't used it in years, and probably remember it being better than it was....
point is, i was able to match that low mid growl voice of dime's solid state distortion sound to the beginning of becoming...the low part of the riff in the very beginning of the song...at least, match it as best i could with my ear playing along with it. the frequency notch trick i guess is what you could call a less transparent parametric eq.

the effect though, i can definitely hear clearly on FBD on all the songs...sort of tunnelly.

Holy necrobump batman....but i fuckin found the article:

http://www.guitarworld.com/dimebag-darr ... w?page=0,3

"The only thing that was really different on this album is that the signal from my guitar was routed through three Randall amps which were recorded simultaneously on each track -- three amps mixed down to one track. One stack was effected with my MXR flanger, for a kind of hollow sound; another stack was just straight up and dry, and the third was set similar to the dry stack except that it had a little more gain. Separately, one sounded horrible, one sounded great and the other sounded bassy; but together they sounded incredible."

 

[JerEvil]

and a flanger trick he used for stationary frequencies (i forget the guys name for that trick)....

"Stationery frequencies"? Hmmm, what do you mean exactly? Do you mean he filtered his signal with the flanger by setting it to a minimal Rate and had the Manual (delay time) control at a particular spot? Where?

yes
all over the whole FBD album. i know i read it somewhere back in the mid/late 90's. he mentioned it in an article.

if you listen back to it, compared to cowboys and vulgar, those two had a less processed, rawer solid state sound.

FBD has a really deep, lowmid vocal quality to the rhythm tracks.

there's a certain dude that was famous for doing that with flangers..i forget his name though.... using the delay or manual for notch eq frequencies.

I think Ronnie LeTikro (spelling) was known for this.

 

[jkkkjkhk]

 

[Steinmetzify]

Dude was once in a lifetime...so much influence then and now.

 

[Ascension]

Pantera's key amp sound was solid-state, which is why it has that harsh edge to it. Although I find that a bit weary at times, it makes you think that maybe the point of why some amps are overdriven so much is so it deliberately creates a harsh square wave sound, which is exactly what solid state does! But there's a fine line there and straddling it is tricky. You want a sharp edgy sound but you want it to be thick and large as well.

The thing as well though is that Dimebag Darrell used different pickups that had this "fizzy squishiness" to them. I'm not sure what, but I do reckon they added a lot to his sound.

Dime was a innovative and solid player and that's a fact but his tone was harsh and abrasive to the point IMO it stunk. For that reason I could only take so much of that stuff at one time a shame cause the dude was a heck of a player!
On the pickups he used XL500 Lawerences and later the Duncan sig Dimebuckers neither are my personal choices.
I know what he used because the XL 500 was what was in the 2000 SN 002 Washburn Stealth that I owned. That particular guitar was bought off the floor at the 2000 NAMM show by a dealer I know after Dime performed with it when they introduced the Stealth series.



And the money shot!

 

[jkkkjkhk]

Pantera's key amp sound was solid-state, which is why it has that harsh edge to it. Although I find that a bit weary at times, it makes you think that maybe the point of why some amps are overdriven so much is so it deliberately creates a harsh square wave sound, which is exactly what solid state does! But there's a fine line there and straddling it is tricky. You want a sharp edgy sound but you want it to be thick and large as well.

The thing as well though is that Dimebag Darrell used different pickups that had this "fizzy squishiness" to them. I'm not sure what, but I do reckon they added a lot to his sound.

Dime was a innovative and solid player and that's a fact but his tone was harsh and abrasive to the point IMO it stunk. For that reason I could only take so much of that stuff at one time a shame cause the dude was a heck of a player!
On the pickups he used XL500 Lawerences and later the Duncan sig Dimebuckers neither are my personal choices.
I know what he used because the XL 500 was what was in the 2000 SN 002 Washburn Stealth that I owned. That particular guitar was bought off the floor at the 2000 NAMM show by a dealer I know after Dime performed with it when they introduced the Stealth series.

And just to note, he used all 3 at different points in his career: B&B L500XL earlier, BLUSA L500XL later (starting mid 90s I believe), and Duncan Dimebucker late. You can tell the difference looking at the rails.

 

[Anonymous]

One stack was effected with my MXR flanger, for a kind of hollow sound; another stack was just straight up and dry, and the third was set similar to the dry stack except that it had a little more gain. Separately, one sounded horrible, one sounded great and the other sounded bassy; but together they still sounded fucking horrible."

Fixed

 

[LowDesertSludge]

Been working on a Floods cover. What an amazing tune!

 

[Anonymous]

One stack was effected with my MXR flanger, for a kind of hollow sound; another stack was just straight up and dry, and the third was set similar to the dry stack except that it had a little more gain. Separately, one sounded horrible, one sounded great and the other sounded bassy; but together they still sounded fucking horrible."

i still have yet to figure out why i'm such a cunt...no one else has either

fixed

i didnt notice you posted here on this thread but someone just asked me about it, and since i placed you on my ignore list about 9 months ago, i missed this.

see what i did there?