Ibanez EM-5 Echo Machine

[Shask]

Dang, all this time, I thought I hadn’t had a tube screamer on my board in a while haha.

I looked at a schematic, but it’s above my pay grade, I’m not even rudimentary level with electronics.

How similar is that part of the circuit to like a TS 808? Is it simplified some, or is it pretty much as TS circuit?

It is basically just the clipping section and the high cut. Its not a full TS 808, but it does have the clipping distortion and the hi/low cuts of a typical Tubescreamer on the repeats.

 

[GuitarVacation]

It is basically just the clipping section and the high cut. Its not a full TS 808, but it does have the clipping distortion and the hi/low cuts of a typical Tubescreamer on the repeats.

Man that's cool info for me, and obvious fan of the EM5. May even help me emulate the sound, if there is ever a need.

I reckon I could use a delay that gets in the ballpark of how the delay chip in the EM5 sounds (I think it's on the lo-fi end of the spectrum, but if you have any takes on the sound of the chip, love to hear them).

I don't think the chip itself is anything special, if memory is correct was frequently used in karaoke machines etc.

But a delay in that ballpark run into a TS used with appropriate subtlety seems like it could capture the same vibe eh?

 

[LPMojoGL]

I built a clone of one of these and I really like it. It is brighter than something like my DM-2 clone, but not as bright as a digital. It seems to not be as flat sounding as a PT2399 based delay. It seems to have just enough high cut to sit well. I think it is just a good sounding basic delay.

All this. Sits really well in the mix, like a good DD2/3/SDE. Not a fan of the PT2399 delays.

 

[LPMojoGL]

I have an original Echo Machine. And before you ask, no I didn't pay $300 for it. I got one back when they were still cheap.

Side bar I have the entire potato bug series. A Powerlead was my first pedal. I got nostalgic a while back and collected the whole set. At the time they were all still dirt cheap. I got most for $10-$20. I think the most I paid for one was $40. Seeing some like the black noise, slam punk, or modern fusion being listed for hundreds of dollars makes my head spin.

Back to the main subject... The echo Machine is a really nice echo pedal, probably the best delay/echo Ibanez ever made. I think it got it's reputation because it's more natural sounding than other delay pedals. I'm not a big FX person so I don't use mine much. That plus the plastic shell and not true bypass. If I had a sturdier, true bypass version of it I'd probably keep it in arms reach.

I think it would be worthwhile to make a clone of the Echo Machine.

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Powerlead was my first dirt pedal. Not bad, back then, for getting Pantera like tones out of a pedal a clean Fender amp.
Knowing what I know now, could've totally utilized it in so many different ways.
The TS5 was my first tube screamer, and after some choice mods, one of the best I ever had.
Alas, both gone. Shitty switch cap whatever made em a pita.

 

[griff10672]

All this. Sits really well in the mix, like a good DD2/3/SDE. Not a fan of the PT2399 delays.

I'd have to agree with you there .... not a huge fan of the PT2399 chip ... the chip in the echo machine is a bit different ... so it seems anyway ... I haven't A B ed them ...

I might sack this idea ... not sure yet ... I call it Griffin Analog for a reason .... for me to start implementing digital components into my mix of things to do ... might cause me more work / trouble than what it's worth ...

If I'm going to start doing anything digital ... I have to learn how to control analog devices digitally .... like Tap Tempo .... that might be worth my while to learn to do .. then I could start doing BBD delays with Tap Tempo ... adding it to other things like a Vibe ... Chorus etc

 

[Shask]

I'd have to agree with you there .... not a huge fan of the PT2399 chip ... the chip in the echo machine is a bit different ... so it seems anyway ... I haven't A B ed them ...

I might sack this idea ... not sure yet ... I call it Griffin Analog for a reason .... for me to start implementing digital components into my mix of things to do ... might cause me more work / trouble than what it's worth ...

If I'm going to start doing anything digital ... I have to learn how to control analog devices digitally .... like Tap Tempo .... that might be worth my while to learn to do .. then I could start doing BBD delays with Tap Tempo ... adding it to other things like a Vibe ... Chorus etc

From what I read back when I built it, the chip in this is still a karaoke chip, but it was higher fidelity than the PT2399. It does seem to not degrade as much, or lose as much high end. It is a funky size also. It is super wide.

I have built several PT2399 pedals, but none of them have become my favorites. They always seem too low quality and dark to me. I am more of a digital+high cut person, and I like tape delays also, but many analog tend to be too dark. I have also built some BBD delays which sound good, but I dont tend to use them as much since they are so dark.

This chip, and the PT2399, are technically digital, but have the AD/DA built into them, so you basically use them in a circuit kind of like you would a BBD style circuit. They are digital.... but sorta not, lol. They take care of the digital parts for you.

 

[Shask]

All this. Sits really well in the mix, like a good DD2/3/SDE. Not a fan of the PT2399 delays.

That is interesting. Must be why I like it, because I like vintage digital delays like the SDE, 2290, etc....

 

[griff10672]

From what I read back when I built it, the chip in this is still a karaoke chip, but it was higher fidelity than the PT2399. It does seem to not degrade as much, or lose as much high end. It is a funky size also. It is super wide.

I have built several PT2399 pedals, but none of them have become my favorites. They always seem too low quality and dark to me. I am more of a digital+high cut person, and I like tape delays also, but many analog tend to be too dark. I have also built some BBD delays which sound good, but I dont tend to use them as much since they are so dark.

This chip, and the PT2399, are technically digital, but have the AD/DA built into them, so you basically use them in a circuit kind of like you would a BBD style circuit. They are digital.... but sorta not, lol. They take care of the digital parts for you.

I lay out my own PCB's so the first major problem I would have is figuring out how to run separate ground planes for the chip ... because it's digital I would need to do it's grounding and everything attached to it ( to an extent ) separately ... not saying I couldn't do it ... but at this point anything I do time wise has to pay off so to speak ..... I can't spend a few weeks learning how to do that just to build a delay pedal and sell 3 of them .

I absolutely agree with your PT2399 opinion ..... with one exception .... I did build a Keeley Magnetic Echo that sounded really good with it but that's it ..
everything else I built with them I didn't like at all ...

I love BBD delays .... and basically collect them .. they can be really dark ... the trick is to find one with a tone control ... The DOD Rubberneck has one and you can get that sucker pretty bright sounding ... it sounds great ... and has some other unique features that set it apart from other stuff ...

I'd really like to get a hold of a Chase Bliiss Tonal Recall ( red or blue knob ) but the prices are like old school rack gear on them .... and with the amount of features on them ... they might as well be a 1u space rack . I'd rather see a digital interface than have to deal with the dipswitches on the back of the pedal

 

[Shask]

I lay out my own PCB's so the first major problem I would have is figuring out how to run separate ground planes for the chip ... because it's digital I would need to do it's grounding and everything attached to it ( to an extent ) separately ... not saying I couldn't do it ... but at this point anything I do time wise has to pay off so to speak ..... I can't spend a few weeks learning how to do that just to build a delay pedal and sell 3 of them .

I absolutely agree with your PT2399 opinion ..... with one exception .... I did build a Keeley Magnetic Echo that sounded really good with it but that's it ..
everything else I built with them I didn't like at all ...

I love BBD delays .... and basically collect them .. they can be really dark ... the trick is to find one with a tone control ... The DOD Rubberneck has one and you can get that sucker pretty bright sounding ... it sounds great ... and has some other unique features that set it apart from other stuff ...

I'd really like to get a hold of a Chase Bliiss Tonal Recall ( red or blue knob ) but the prices are like old school rack gear on them .... and with the amount of features on them ... they might as well be a 1u space rack . I'd rather see a digital interface than have to deal with the dipswitches on the back of the pedal

I like analogs with cleaner tones, but I am pretty much a metal guy, so the digital stuff keeps better clarity with all the gain.

I did a Mag Echo, and it is pretty good. My favorite from that style is probably an EQD Space Spiral clone. It is kind of like the Mag Echo with crazy extreme modulation.

 

[LPMojoGL]

That is interesting. Must be why I like it, because I like vintage digital delays like the SDE, 2290, etc....

I broke out the clone I have (Supernaut Soundworks Maschine) after posting in this thread. Put it in the effects loop of the SLO.
Lo and behold, no noise!!
Sounded amazing. "Soupy", if I used one word to describe it. The delay volume and feedback can be cranked up, yet it never stomps on the original tone or feel, just melts into the sound. It's one of those pedals you can always have on, and not really notice, until you turn it off. And then its like, what happened to my sound?!!

I guess it plays better in the effects loop of certain amps? Or perhaps I was using a crappy power supply before.
The BAD SLO has a great, tube-buffered loop. Night n day improved over the original SLO design.
I think I used it in the effects loop of the Archon, SS100 or Wizard when I first got the pedal, with a Truetone power supply.
Whatever the case, I'm no longer letting it sit on the shelf, much less considering selling it.

Quick clip of it in the effects loop of the SLO. The SLO is such a dynamic, versatile amp. Freaking love it.

 

[LPMojoGL]

I like analogs with cleaner tones, but I am pretty much a metal guy, so the digital stuff keeps better clarity with all the gain.

I did a Mag Echo, and it is pretty good. My favorite from that style is probably an EQD Space Spiral clone. It is kind of like the Mag Echo with crazy extreme modulation.

We have similar tastes in delay. I gotta not read anymore of your posts, or my GAS will flare up.

I've been using the Strymon DIG as my main delay for a long time.
It lacks a certain something in feel, when compared to the DD2 or SDE. But it's close, with superior functionality and features. The golden ratio setting is gold.

Have the EVH SDE-3000, but I'll never utilize its full potential. I just set it to my fav EVH setting, and turn the delay volume down quite a bit. Will probably flip it.
EQD Dispatch Master is a fav, for a certain type of ambient thing.

Boss DM-101 is awesome, but kind of dark or murky like you alluded to. I did get rid of my first delay pedal, Rocktek ADR-01 (DM2 clone) after getting the DM-101.

I can see the Maschine EM5 clone moving into top spot for a while.

 

[GuitarVacation]

I lay out my own PCB's so the first major problem I would have is figuring out how to run separate ground planes for the chip ... because it's digital I would need to do it's grounding and everything attached to it ( to an extent ) separately ... not saying I couldn't do it ... but at this point anything I do time wise has to pay off so to speak ..... I can't spend a few weeks learning how to do that just to build a delay pedal and sell 3 of them .

I absolutely agree with your PT2399 opinion ..... with one exception .... I did build a Keeley Magnetic Echo that sounded really good with it but that's it ..
everything else I built with them I didn't like at all ...

I love BBD delays .... and basically collect them .. they can be really dark ... the trick is to find one with a tone control ... The DOD Rubberneck has one and you can get that sucker pretty bright sounding ... it sounds great ... and has some other unique features that set it apart from other stuff ...

I'd really like to get a hold of a Chase Bliiss Tonal Recall ( red or blue knob ) but the prices are like old school rack gear on them .... and with the amount of features on them ... they might as well be a 1u space rack . I'd rather see a digital interface than have to deal with the dipswitches on the back of the pedal

If gut pics of my original or my clone let me know. The original will probably make you laugh, that plastic soundtank series were built like they were party favors.

I haven't been around rigtalk long (lurked for a long time), but I think you're builds and how you have stuff that interacts with the community is really fun\cool.

As much as I love the EM5, I agree it's probably pretty niche as far as market.

I've actually come close to messaging you about that Tube Driver type one off you have for sale (Buffalo TD-X clone maybe?). I just haven't because I have a BK Butler, and way too many unused dirt pedals right now haha.

 

[Shask]

We have similar tastes in delay. I gotta not read anymore of your posts, or my GAS will flare up.

I've been using the Strymon DIG as my main delay for a long time.
It lacks a certain something in feel, when compared to the DD2 or SDE. But it's close, with superior functionality and features. The golden ratio setting is gold.

Have the EVH SDE-3000, but I'll never utilize its full potential. I just set it to my fav EVH setting, and turn the delay volume down quite a bit. Will probably flip it.
EQD Dispatch Master is a fav, for a certain type of ambient thing.

Boss DM-101 is awesome, but kind of dark or murky like you alluded to. I did get rid of my first delay pedal, Rocktek ADR-01 (DM2 clone) after getting the DM-101.

I can see the Maschine EM5 clone moving into top spot for a while.

I went on a big Delay adventure the last 2 years or so, lol. I bought several, and built several.

I have the SDE-3000D, and I like it a lot. However, I don't really use it's potential either. I wanted it for a Dual delay, but many times I find dual delays to turn into a wall of mush with a lot of gain, so I don't end up using it. I also wanted to use it as a Chorus pedal, but I struggle getting good Chorus tones out of it. It gets too shallow or phasey, or something.

I also have a 2290p that I like better in terms of a giant mega-delay.. It has amazing Chorus tones, and I find the delay to be clear, but do it in a way it stays behind the main tone with a lot of gain.

I was going to buy the DM-101, but I ended up building 3 or 4 analog delays. They sound good, but too dark for my usual use. They turn into a wall of mush also with gain. I find the EM-5 clone doesn't do that. I also built some FV-1 based delays which can sound good. The Dispatch Master is based on that chip.

I think I use my lowly Flashback II the most. That 2290 setting just sits well with gain, the modulation tones are good, and it is analog dry through. It just works most of the time. I can use my rack units also, but the TC pedals are usually just easier.

 

[LPMojoGL]

I went on a big Delay adventure the last 2 years or so, lol. I bought several, and built several.

I have the SDE-3000D, and I like it a lot. However, I don't really use it's potential either. I wanted it for a Dual delay, but many times I find dual delays to turn into a wall of mush with a lot of gain, so I don't end up using it. I also wanted to use it as a Chorus pedal, but I struggle getting good Chorus tones out of it. It gets too shallow or phasey, or something.

I also have a 2290p that I like better in terms of a giant mega-delay.. It has amazing Chorus tones, and I find the delay to be clear, but do it in a way it stays behind the main tone with a lot of gain.

I was going to buy the DM-101, but I ended up building 3 or 4 analog delays. They sound good, but too dark for my usual use. They turn into a wall of mush also with gain. I find the EM-5 clone doesn't do that. I also built some FV-1 based delays which can sound good. The Dispatch Master is based on that chip.

I think I use my lowly Flashback II the most. That 2290 setting just sits well with gain, the modulation tones are good, and it is analog dry through. It just works most of the time. I can use my rack units also, but the TC pedals are usually just easier.

The Flashback was pretty cool, back in the day. I wasn't fond of consulting my phone to change sounds. Same with the SA Nemesis, which inspired many killer recordings. I upgraded to the FB2, and it promptly failed. Wrote TC off after that, and reading several other people having similar issues.
Wish I had the knowledge to build my own.
Here are a couple of clips I made with that EM5 clone, in the effects loop of my Wizard. It's dethroned the Stryom DIG as #1. I love it.

 

[Shask]

The Flashback was pretty cool, back in the day. I wasn't fond of consulting my phone to change sounds. Same with the SA Nemesis, which inspired many killer recordings. I upgraded to the FB2, and it promptly failed. Wrote TC off after that, and reading several other people having similar issues.
Wish I had the knowledge to build my own.
Here are a couple of clips I made with that EM5 clone, in the effects loop of my Wizard. It's dethroned the Stryom DIG as #1. I love it.

Sounds good! It sounds very natural with the sound.

I got my EM-5 clone out since this thread and was playing with it. One thing I really like with this pedal is to turn the delay way down just above minimum for a reverb~ish doubling type thing. It does that really well without taking over the signal or sounding metallic.

Luckily I haven't had issues with my Toneprint pedals, but I know it is common. I have several of them. I just love the TC tone in that it is clear and doesn't take over the signal. I have 2 of the Plethora X1 pedals that you can load any Toneprint into, so I use those the most.

The Source Audio Collider is pretty much the only other pedal I have looked at for this type of thing, mainly because it can do Delay and Reverb in parallel with an analog dry through.