ICE, ICE, baby

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Dan Gleesak said:
I don’t think it is necessarily true or what is actually happening, but it was at least an earnest response
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I think the vast majority of the responses are earnest. You just don’t like ‘em.


Here’s another one.
MadAsAHatter said:
Alright Dan, here's the thing... the way people come at you has nothing to do with your point of view. If it did we could actually have a discussion with you. Each present their side, present counter arguments, etc., etc., and come to some sort of middle ground or at least agree to disagree. That's how a normal adult discussions generally go.

With you, as with the other forum trolls you're being completely disingenuous. We all see and know what you're doing. You're trying to drive the arguments in circles by purposefully being obtuse. You never take anyone's viewpoint into consideration to the point of completely dismissing it. Then you come back with some outlandish statement that may surface level appear on topic, but either skirts the actual discussion or has no point. And it's always your subjective opinion trying to be passed off as objective fact. That or "I don't see it so it doesn't exist." It's an obvious attempt to frustrate people. Then, when you perceive someone being frustrated, it's on to what I can only assume you think is witty comebacks. When you get push back its on to crying foul and playing dumb and/or victim. Of course it's always everyone else that's the problem, never you. It's been the same thing with you over and over since you've migrated over here. It really is a pattern of behavior that we all see.

You're more than welcome to continue playing you stupid little games if you want. Apparently you get some sort of jollies out of attempting to frustrate people. Just know it's not working on anyone. All the guff you think your stirring up is just people fucking with you because we know your pattern.

Maybe try acting like an adult for a change and not like a 12 year old child who just discovered the internet. Or go ahead and pretend you're not the one being the problem and reply with the same ridiculous behavior as you always do. Makes little difference to me.
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NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
I was born here and for that I 100% absolutely do have a right to be here more than an illegal immigrant. That might be the most asinine thing you've ever said. Do you think you have the same right to be in any other country on earth as their citizens? The only person here who is ignorant is you. I am not demonizing anyone, and never once eluded to it. In fact I specifically removed jobs and crime out of my inquiry. We don't live in fantasy land and it's easy for you to dismiss other's problems because you were handed your shit. Your home was given to you so why should you care that other Americans suffer, your suburban white boy lifestyle, so why shouldn't you act like a virtue signalling idiot when you have nothing to lose or have ever known what an actual hard day is in your life? I earned everything in my life and climbed from the bottom. I take no issue with people and only issue with the reality of the consequences that come with it. You're arrogant, you like to hear yourself speak, and you're wrong. About everything.
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Blah blah blah
I believe everyone has a right to be here. The consensus seems to be that even the ones here illegally would prefer to be here legally. Unfortunately it takes a shit load more than just desire to make that happen. I think streamlining the process, like it used to be, is a better solution to all this than gestapo style raids in American neighborhoods.

Which is why I bring up the argument, if the issue with illegals is simply that they are here illegally, then allowing legal status to become more attainable would pacify your issue with them.
 
Floyd Eye said:
I think the vast majority of the responses are earnest. You just don’t like ‘em.


Here’s another one.
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Very few responses are earnest imo.
Madhatter is usually one of them though, and that’s why I make an attempt to respond to him
 
Dan Gleesak said:
Blah blah blah
I believe everyone has a right to be here. The consensus seems to be that even the ones here illegally would prefer to be here legally. Unfortunately it takes a shit load more than just desire to make that happen. I think streamlining the process, like it used to be, is a better solution to all this than gestapo style raids in American neighborhoods.

Which is why I bring up the argument, if the issue with illegals is simply that they are here illegally, then allowing legal status to become more attainable would pacify your issue with them.
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Didn’t you just make the claim that you never inferred the issue was simply that they were here illegally ? Like 20 minutes ago. You’re so full of fucking shit Dan.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Didn’t you just make the claim that you never inferred the issue was simply that they were here illegally ? Like 20 minutes ago. You’re so full of fucking shit Dan.
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It’s not an issue for me, but many of you have brought it up. You are tripping over yourself again.
 
Dan Gleesak said:
Blah blah blah
I believe everyone has a right to be here. The consensus seems to be that even the ones here illegally would prefer to be here legally. Unfortunately it takes a shit load more than just desire to make that happen. I think streamlining the process, like it used to be, is a better solution to all this than gestapo style raids in American neighborhoods.

Which is why I bring up the argument, if the issue with illegals is simply that they are here illegally, then allowing legal status to become more attainable would pacify your issue with them.
Click to expand...

Too much bullshit; didn't read
 
Dan Gleesak said:
Blah blah blah
I believe everyone has a right to be here. The consensus seems to be that even the ones here illegally would prefer to be here legally. Unfortunately it takes a shit load more than just desire to make that happen. I think streamlining the process, like it used to be, is a better solution to all this than gestapo style raids in American neighborhoods.

Which is why I bring up the argument, if the issue with illegals is simply that they are here illegally, then allowing legal status to become more attainable would pacify your issue with them.
Click to expand...
You ever going to answer my question, twat-muffin?
On today's episode of "As the nutsack turns"
Will the idiot continue to talk in circles with vague comments and opinions portrayed as "facts"?
Or will this troll finally answer questions asked?
Stay tuned
 
Dan Gleesak said:
Eh not really. He’s certainly more well spoken than most of yall but suffers from the same crippling bias as many others
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I have some bias but it's certainly not crippling. When someone is actually being genuine I can hear them out, take their POV into consideration, and have a discussion. I can also see when people are playing games. I'm not going to indulge them in their attempt to stir shit up so they can get their jollies off. It's blatantly obvious which category you fall into, I've called it out, and your predictable behavior is on full display in this thread for all to see.

As for the topic at hand that you're playing your silly little games with, I feel like chiming in. But don't bother responding because I'm not replying directly to you and I'm not going to put myself in the middle of your ridiculous circular arguments..

I'm putting out some thoughts for anyone who wants to have a legitimate discussion.
To anyone who is going to read further, prepare for a few walls of text. I'm breaking things up into a few back to back posts so hopefully it can be easier to digest each segment.

You've been given fair warning. :D

Anyone who wants to come to this country for a better life, assimilate into society, and become a productive member should be more than welcome to do so. But they need to go through the legal process, not run across the border all willy-nilly.

A country without borders is not a country at all. As the world stands today we need borders. Let’s face it, how many countries’ ideals are actually compatible on a level that can be cohesive. And I’m not even talking culturally, I’m talking about the principles it was founded on. You’re not going to have any cohesiveness between one that was founded on freedom to govern themselves vs rule by a king vs dictatorship. Past that you have to factor in cultural norms which would be a big can of worms in and of itself. That doesn’t mean there can’t be cooperation between countries, but complete integration isn’t going to happen in our lifetime and isn’t something that can be forced.

This is in part why there’s the mandate to control the border. On the big scale level the tens of millions flooding across over the past 4 years is viewed as an invasion. Not an invasion in the typical sense, but an invasion as I mentioned in the previous paragraph. It’s viewed as a forced intermingling of a countries’ foundational ideologies. And that doesn’t just incorporate Mexico, it incorporates any other country. It’s also the reason for the call for deportation. Those in the US illegally are here in bad faith. Entering the country illegally says I have no respect for your country, your border, or your county’s’ founding principles. It says; and in many cases shown, I’m rejecting these things and substituting/forcing my own. Keep in mind this is on a large scale level. Things are much more nuanced when you look on an individual level, and I’ll get into that later on.

The other larger part for border control and deportation; which the gov’t appears to be focusing on, is blocking and getting rid of criminals. You’d really have your head in the sand to think criminals aren’t going to take advantage of an open border. We can’t have criminals entering the country at their leisure. And the ones who are already here need to be thrown out. I’ve heard the argument that criminals are a small portion, just a drop in the bucket of the people coming here for a better life. In my view any percentage of criminals entering above 0.0000% is too many.

Let’s take a personal perspective of that. Would you leave you front door wide open for anyone to come and go as they please? If you did, would you find 99 girl scouts selling cookies and 1 serial child rapist & murderer an acceptable percentage? Would you want to throw that criminal out your house or let them stay?

This is why we need borders and why we need a legal process of allowing people into the country.
 
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Continuing from the previous post, I want to look at things from an individual perspective. This is where I think a lot of the liberal rhetoric and arguments stem from. Right or left I don’t think anyone (unless you’re a flat out racist) would be against anyone coming here for a better life and assimilating into the US as a productive citizen who values our foundations. After all a good portion of our positive history is built on that. The left seems to use this as an emotional argument for full open borders, but ignores the large scale perspective. Not to mention they think for whatever reason immigrant’s future votes will automatically go to them and keep them in power.

While there is merit to immigration on an individual level it still needs to be controlled. Yes, the immigration process does need to be revamped to make it easier for those wanting to assimilate, but it doesn’t change the fact that there still needs to be a well-founded legal process.

I’ve already discussed the criminal aspect of it so I won’t go further that reiterating we need to know who’s coming in. Beyond that there’s many other factors to take into account.

From the country’s perspective:
  • Taxation – As every other citizen, immigrants need to pay their share of taxes
  • Productivity – If an immigrant is just going to be a burden and drain on society they don’t need to be here.
  • Reason for coming – Are you just visiting, here for seasonal work, seeking asylum, want to stay for the long haul. Will you contribute to GDP (spend your money here or send it out the country), etc. etc.
  • Population – As we’ve seen too many at one time overloads the system & communities. There needs to be control so this doesn’t happen and allows time for adaptation to the extra people beyond birth rates.
From the immigrant’s perspective:
  • Protecition - Entering the country legally means you are under the umbrella of our laws that provide protection for its citizens. There’s avenues of recourse if you are wronged. Not just criminal protections, but civil rights protection, wage protection, housing protection, etc.
  • Opportunity – Being here legally opens more opportunities for a better life. Education, jobs, higher wages, better connections, all without fear of being discovered and booted out. Extreme example, but an illegal immigrant isn’t going to even have the opportunity to be a fortune 500 CEO or astrophysicist even if they had the knowhow and ambition.
  • Benefits – This one would be in contention because under the Biden administration illegal immigrants were/are getting benefits even though they shouldn’t. Barring that there’s the ability to have insurance (medical, car, home owner/renter), investment, retirement, social security, medicare/medicaid, disability. Basically all benefits up to what the legal status allows.
  • Human trafficking – Do I really need to say anything on the need for this to be put to an end?
  • Quality of life – There’s not the fear/burden of being deported looming overhead. Regardless what the fearmongering MSM says, no one who is here legally will be deported. If that does happen it would be a gross oversight and I can only assume would be corrected immediately.
One step beyond this… allowing open borders or naturalizing anyone for just walking in is a massive slap in the face to those who have been legally naturalized. I don’t say this as conjecture. About 1/3rd of the people I work with are 1st or 2nd generation naturalized immigrants. Vietnam, China, Cuba, Mexico, India, and Japan are some of the countries they came from. It’s not like it’s an open forum discussion on the topic but all of them have expressed that view in some form. One person put it perfectly. It’s akin to be at the front of the line for tickets to a big game. You get there early so you can get a good seat up front, but a butt-load of people jump the line at the last second and now you’re stuck in the nose bleeds.
 
This is a bit of a tangent, but still mostly on topic.

I hear the argument about labor force; who’s going to pick the crops? It’s called an H-2A and H-2B visa for seasonal work. My understanding is it’s pretty easy to get, especially since Americans don’t want to do these jobs, right? Employer shows the American labor force can’t fill their needs, fill out some paperwork, some sponsorship for the job seeker, and all is good to go. Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s more involved than that simple overview, but the point is its pretty straight forward compared to other types of visas and naturalization. So that argument really doesn’t hold water.

Also why do liberals always go straight to picking crops & cleaning toilets? I don't understand this mindset. Are immigrants not good enough to be doctors, lawyers, CEO's, etc. or do liberals look down on them as lesser people? It also makes an implication that regardless of who works those jobs, they are only for the lowest of people. Any honest work no matter what it is isn't beneath anyone who is wanting to provide for them and their own. That kind of thinking really shows off an elitist attitude.
 
Dan mentioned something about industries coming back to US and making things unaffordable. Another tangent, but something else I want to touch on while it's on my mind and still enough on topic .

I’m not going to pretend US made goods won’t cost more than what current foreign good are now. Production costs probably won’t increase that much, but labor costs will from wages being higher in the US. That’s also taking a narrow view and looking at only one small aspect. Yeah, bringing industry back to the US will mean goods will likely cost more. It also means the creation of jobs, more people in the workforce, better/higher GDP, more money in the economy, more money in people’s pockets, and greater spending power of the dollar. All of that put together adds up to your money going further to cover the increased costs and not put a dent in your lifestyle. And this is also much, much different than printing money out of thin air and throwing it into the economy like with the stimulus checks or arbitrarily jacking minimum wage to $50/hr.

Another aspect is when bring industry/production back to the US is talked about, it’s not meaning bringing back every single thing all at once. I see it as first focusing on the major industries that are critical to national security; steel, transportation, energy, electronics/chips, medicine, agriculture to an extent to name a few. I’m sure other industries will come along with those at some point, but we’re not talking about birthday candles and push brooms solely made in the US. No one’s wanting the US to be completely isolated in that regard.

My personal opinion is I will buy US made goods wherever I can. That doesn’t mean I won’t buy any foreign goods, it just means I’m looking to US products as my first option even if it costs a little more. Anyone who whines about US goods will cost too much because of higher labor costs; All that says to me is either you’re not in favor of fair pay or are okay with foreign slave labor as long as you get your cheap temu junk.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
Anyone who wants to come to this country for a better life, assimilate into society, and become a productive member should be more than welcome to do so. But they need to go through the legal process, not run across the border all willy-nilly.
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The point we've been articulating all along.
MadAsAHatter said:
Also why do liberals always go straight to picking crops & cleaning toilets? I don't understand this mindset. Are immigrants not good enough to be doctors, lawyers, CEO's, etc. or do liberals look down on them as lesser people?
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Yes. Much like the American minorities they claim to be fighting for. They don't give a shit about either one. Just retaining the votes.
MadAsAHatter said:
Dan mentioned something about industries coming back to US and making things unaffordable. Another tangent, but something else I want to touch on while it's on my mind and still enough on topic .

I’m not going to pretend US made goods won’t cost more than what current foreign good are now. Production costs probably won’t increase that much, but labor costs will from wages being higher in the US. That’s also taking a narrow view and looking at only one small aspect. Yeah, bringing industry back to the US will mean goods will likely cost more. It also means the creation of jobs, more people in the workforce, better/higher GDP, more money in the economy, more money in people’s pockets, and greater spending power of the dollar. All of that put together adds up to your money going further to cover the increased costs and not put a dent in your lifestyle. And this is also much, much different than printing money out of thin air and throwing it into the economy like with the stimulus checks or arbitrarily jacking minimum wage to $50/hr.

Another aspect is when bring industry/production back to the US is talked about, it’s not meaning bringing back every single thing all at once. I see it as first focusing on the major industries that are critical to national security; steel, transportation, energy, electronics/chips, medicine, agriculture to an extent to name a few. I’m sure other industries will come along with those at some point, but we’re not talking about birthday candles and push brooms solely made in the US. No one’s wanting the US to be completely isolated in that regard.

My personal opinion is I will buy US made goods wherever I can. That doesn’t mean I won’t buy any foreign goods, it just means I’m looking to US products as my first option even if it costs a little more. Anyone who whines about US goods will cost too much because of higher labor costs; All that says to me is either you’re not in favor of fair pay or are okay with foreign slave labor as long as you get your cheap temu junk.
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The whole reason for the tariffs. Well said.
 
Funny how the people who are all for taking all these people in and all this wasteful, fraudulent government spending all seem to be mother fuckers that have all the shit they’ve got because it was given to them and have no idea what an actual hard day of work is. Government money is free when you don’t pay taxes.
 
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