Is good tone really subjective? Discuss...

[moltenmetalburn]

Bottom line: everybody likes what they like, good or bad.

Yeah ill just go with that too.

 

[Anonymous]

I know your opinion and I 'd like to hear more from other members as well.

I agree with Bob.

Steve

 

[Mailman1971]

Bottom line: everybody likes what they like, good or bad.

My tone is better than your tone!

or.....

My Amp is better than your amp.......

Or.....

I can keep going......

its all in the ear of the listener and player.


My god tone is your ........"that sucks" tone.....
been that way forever. Nothing going to change it.

 

[glpg80]

danno! i want clips asap!

 

[Mailman1971]

danno! i want clips asap!

Hopefully by the end of the weekend.....

 

[TheMagicEight]

I was thinking about this the other day while in the studio reamping some guitars and discussing the complexities of good tone and a mix with the Engineer.

Typically we all come to the agreement that good tone is subjective, the ear of the individual listener is left to decide what is pleasing to them and what is not and that is the defining factor between good and bad tone; personal opinion. I'm starting to think that this is quite far from the truth and more politically correct than anything else.

Lets put bedroom players aside for a moment, they are not the basis of my opinion. At home you can make your amp sound however you like it, it will never matter to anyone but you.

Ok, so we all know that when playing live or making a recording that leaving sonic space in the overall mix for each instrument is paramount.

The guitars shouldn't not have so much highs they mask cymbals, they also should not have so much bass they mask the bass player.

scooping your mids makes you less apparent in the overall mix and tends to lead to a hollow sound.

So, Isn't it safe for me to say that a sound that is pumping so much bass you might as well not have a bassist, scooped out so much mids you might as well not be there at all, etc, means that you have a bad sound no matter how awesome you think it is.

I'm really starting to believe good tone is quite far from subjective. there are clear facts about what makes a guitar sound best with a band . If you pump frequencies outside these parameters you worsen the overall mix, therefore your tone is bad. Even if it makes the hair on your neck stand on end.

I am only discussing the sound onstage coming out of your speaker, if your sound guy does a ton of corrective EQ for the FOH mix then that is no longer your guitar tone.

Discuss friends.

I agree with you 100%! There is a LOT of room for subjectivity in tone, but I think there are some objective principles that musn't be forgotten. First, don't sonically step on your bandmates' toes. Guitar is a midrange instrument and that's - by and large but not completely - where it should be heard. Second, scooping mids is okay to do as long as you don't scoop ALL of them. Personally, I love to scoop some low mids out at ~ 400 - 600 Hz for heavier stuff. I still have plenty of midrange to back up the rest of my tone and be heard well. Third, standing frequencies are no good. This kind of tone only creates ear fatigue.

Apart from this, tone is very subjective, sure. However, I will take Vrad's POV and agree that the best tones are largely universal. If you want to be an asshole just to feel unique and disagree with that, go ahead, but some guitar tones just sound great.

It's like hot chicks.
Some chicks are universally hot. If you're a straight male, you'd have to find them very attractive...

There are other chicks that fall within the subjective region of 'someone's thing'... The closer they are to the extremes, the less debate there's gonna be.

Same thing with tone.

 

[Bob Savage]

If you want to be an asshole just to feel unique and disagree with that, go ahead, but some guitar tones just sound great.

If you want to redefine the meaning of subjective, go ahead, but resorting to name calling isn't going to help prove your point. The mere fact that you have made a broad, sweeping generalization about "guitar tones" demonstrates your ignorance. Do you really think dedicated fans of swing or big band are going to agree on the quality of high gain guitar tones? They're not, and it's because of the subjectivity of what's "good" and "bad." It's difficult enough to get people who are on the same page to agree on the "best."

I'm not certain why this is such a big deal, either. I find the subjectivity of music, tone and all things music to be part of the beauty of it.

 

[TheMagicEight]

If you want to be an asshole just to feel unique and disagree with that, go ahead, but some guitar tones just sound great.

If you want to redefine the meaning of subjective, go ahead, but resorting to name calling isn't going to help prove your point. The mere fact that you have made a broad, sweeping generalization about "guitar tones" demonstrates your ignorance. Do you really think dedicated fans of swing or big band are going to agree on the quality of high gain guitar tones? They're not, and it's because of the subjectivity of what's "good" and "bad." It's difficult enough to get people who are on the same page to agree on the "best."

I'm not certain why this is such a big deal, either. I find the subjectivity of music, tone and all things music to be part of the beauty of it.

Well I guess you're the exception. Great job.

 

[Bob Savage]

Well I guess you're the exception. Great job.

I know you are, but what am I? Same to you and more of it. I'm like rubber and you're like glue...

 

[Mailman1971]

Well I guess you're the exception. Great job.

I know you are, but what am I? Same to you and more of it. I'm like rubber and you're like glue...

That does it!! I am taking my ball and going home!!

 

[Bob Savage]

I know you are, but what am I? Same to you and more of it. I'm like rubber and you're like glue...

That does it!! I am taking my ball and going home!! [/quote]

No! I didn't meant it. I take it back.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Well I guess you're the exception. Great job.

I know you are, but what am I? Same to you and more of it. I'm like rubber and you're like glue...

That does it!! I am taking my ball and going home!!

It's cool, your ball doesn't bounce anyway!!

 

[Mailman1971]

Well I guess you're the exception. Great job.

I know you are, but what am I? Same to you and more of it. I'm like rubber and you're like glue...

That does it!! I am taking my ball and going home!!

It's cool, your ball doesn't bounce anyway!!

Well I cant help it I have to play Basketball with a Flat soccerball.....
I spent all my money on new gear and cant afford a tire pump...

 

[kasperjensen]

I have always thought that Lenny Kravitz captured a monster tone on "American Woman". For some reason that was the first one that came to mind...

As stated earlier, there are two types of good tone. One is good for bedroom noodling and guitar store playing, and the other is the one that you can actually use in "real" life

 

[TheMagicEight]

If you want to redefine the meaning of subjective, go ahead, but resorting to name calling isn't going to help prove your point. The mere fact that you have made a broad, sweeping generalization about "guitar tones" demonstrates your ignorance. Do you really think dedicated fans of swing or big band are going to agree on the quality of high gain guitar tones? They're not, and it's because of the subjectivity of what's "good" and "bad." It's difficult enough to get people who are on the same page to agree on the "best."

I'm not certain why this is such a big deal, either. I find the subjectivity of music, tone and all things music to be part of the beauty of it.

The fact that you believe sweeping generalizations in guitar tone don't exist demonstrates your ignorance. I'm not trying to redefine anything. I believe the OP has a valid point, that guitar tone isn't quite as subjective as throwing your hands up and saying "there's nothing that generally sounds good".

No, swing or big band fans probably won't like ridiculously distorted metal tones, "good" as they may be. But I left room for that anyway in my original post. People that enjoy classic rock will generally agree AC/DC's Highway to Hell has good guitar tone. That shouldn't be too hard to swallow. If you misinterpreted my original post to read something other than the example I just gave, you might give it a once over and see if you "find" anything else.

 

[Bob Savage]

The fact that you believe sweeping generalizations in guitar tone don't exist demonstrates your ignorance.

What? LOL!!!

Holy cow, do they teach logic in school these days?

 

[Vrad]

The fact that you believe sweeping generalizations in guitar tone don't exist demonstrates your ignorance.

What? LOL!!!

Holy cow, do they teach logic in school these days?

OH MAN!
That's a sig-worthy quote right there.

 

[Mailman1971]

 

[TheMagicEight]

The fact that you believe sweeping generalizations in guitar tone don't exist demonstrates your ignorance.

What? LOL!!!

Holy cow, do they teach logic in school these days?

Hey, come on now; don't be so bitter. There's plenty of room in psychological studies for people with brain damage as severe as yours. You'll do fine.

 

[Bob Savage]

Hey, come on now; don't be so bitter. There's plenty of room in psychological studies for people with brain damage as severe as yours. You'll do fine.

That's all you've got?

I believe my work here is done. Thank you for your participation.