glpg80
Well-known member
What do you mean miss the time window?
Is it required/recommended to color sand with 400/600 prior to applying polyurethane clear coat for a guitar body?
What do you mean miss the time window?
* velcro-fly *
Well-known member
Here's one that just needs to get put together that's coming out really cool. Roth Skidmark Black base > Surfite silver Flake > Beaver Brown candy. I didn't do the best job grain sealing and it sunk pretty good (mahogany body) so I'm not gonna bother with cut and buff. Wraptail P90 Tele on the way!
I had a guy at work weld up these body jigs for me, I actually just use a bike repair stand and can rotate and spin the body any way needed, works perfect.
I had a guy at work weld up these body jigs for me, I actually just use a bike repair stand and can rotate and spin the body any way needed, works perfect.
* velcro-fly *
Well-known member
At least with the Roth and Tropical Glitz paints you need to get the clear coat applied usually within an hour of your last color coat so that its gassing off at the same rate, it also really makes a difference in whether or not your going to end up with orange peel due to shrink back. If you wait a day you will need to hit it with some 800 or so to scuff it to have a better surface bond for the clear. The other big consideration though is the color - solids are usually no big deal to level out before clear if you decide to wait, but if you're spraying candy or any metal flake you really need some clear coat otherwise you'll burn through it and destroy the candy and the flake. You're basically spraying clear just to sand it back off.
mcstinger
Well-known member
* velcro-fly *
Well-known member
Nah, I just sand it back if needed. I like some wrap of the paint over the pocket edge, I've never had a problem with buildup due how the angles in there are. Not a bad idea though!No neck pocket tape masking? Just curious, no criticism here
S
SmashingAtom
Member
I'll throw in my .02 cents. Fender used a sealer before a color to quell the grain. Polyester is the most solid, easy to work with these days. They used "Fullerplast back then. Drop it down, level it out with enough teeth to grab onto the color. I like House Of Color Auto paints. You can get small amounts and spray equiptment cheap to facilitate from auto body and Harbor Freight.
With Laquer when applied to Laquer will meld together very well. The old coat melds with the new coat, so level and re apply. Also Polyester clear is hard, solid and ready for high level wet sanding. End product is very durable and resonant. Go hog wild with color underneath it. The metal flakes and colors are the HOC appeal. Let it all dry out extensively because once you drop Polyester on it is trapped, to avoid strange results.
The polyeurethane stuff to me is gummy and needs more hardener in general. When shooting all in one day you want more time to dry because your spraying a tacky surface. Here your more prone to contaminations, so a clean area to work is key. Your building the 'system' and ending with clear, which you plan to level with 1000 to 2000 wet sand. Buffing wheels generate heat so thats why polyester is so popular and its rock solid resonant/durable. Polyester is also great as a sealer because of being so rock solid and resonant.
I say this because polyester is never going to react to your sweat, heat and it encapsulates the body, like Fender " Fullerplast " did. The Laquers Fender used were thin, and like I mention, additional coats are easy cause they 'meld' easy. The HOC is uber color, especially metal flake. The polyester seals all, can sand out to glass if need be. Add more dry time if you want a more level surface at the expense of picking up contaminants.
Have fun and experiment away. My main deal was reaction to sweat/heat that destroyed the contact area. Fenders age so well because of what I described above. The old Kramers for example were Polyester resin and indestructible. Turns out virutally the same material as Fenders Fullerplast they used as grain sealer. They then applied thin color coats, no clears. So either way, you want Polyester to experiment with, at the very least a grain sealer for max resonance and as a clear, its insane.
I did alot of swirls, dips, color transfers on polyester encapsulated bodies. They never took on water. This process required to 'dunk' the bodies in water for the art processes. Just to give a further testimony for it. When the wood is kiln dried and ready, last thing you want is water or moisture before paint to get 'trapped' inside.
But thats another insight. Velcro Flys pics are increadible, great work and advice with follow up. Just so you guys know where I am coming from. I restore Corvettes and Old Muscle cars with the old paints. Fiberglass flexes and we have systems for that. So with guitars, I want solid , not flex and pliable. I want no reactions with sweat and heat, most of all resonance, but maybe color first with big metal flake too. So thats where polyester kills it. Color sand, and if you want you can buff it on a wheel no problem as long as you pay attention to heat. Thats the red/white compound. Many use Maguires Mirror as a finish. I don't like additives to the paint. Velcro Fly seems to think the same way. Shoot it, let it off gas together and SHINE AWAY. His spray technique is cleary VERY evident, you don't get those results unless you are a pro !, or tutled by one ;-)
With Laquer when applied to Laquer will meld together very well. The old coat melds with the new coat, so level and re apply. Also Polyester clear is hard, solid and ready for high level wet sanding. End product is very durable and resonant. Go hog wild with color underneath it. The metal flakes and colors are the HOC appeal. Let it all dry out extensively because once you drop Polyester on it is trapped, to avoid strange results.
The polyeurethane stuff to me is gummy and needs more hardener in general. When shooting all in one day you want more time to dry because your spraying a tacky surface. Here your more prone to contaminations, so a clean area to work is key. Your building the 'system' and ending with clear, which you plan to level with 1000 to 2000 wet sand. Buffing wheels generate heat so thats why polyester is so popular and its rock solid resonant/durable. Polyester is also great as a sealer because of being so rock solid and resonant.
I say this because polyester is never going to react to your sweat, heat and it encapsulates the body, like Fender " Fullerplast " did. The Laquers Fender used were thin, and like I mention, additional coats are easy cause they 'meld' easy. The HOC is uber color, especially metal flake. The polyester seals all, can sand out to glass if need be. Add more dry time if you want a more level surface at the expense of picking up contaminants.
Have fun and experiment away. My main deal was reaction to sweat/heat that destroyed the contact area. Fenders age so well because of what I described above. The old Kramers for example were Polyester resin and indestructible. Turns out virutally the same material as Fenders Fullerplast they used as grain sealer. They then applied thin color coats, no clears. So either way, you want Polyester to experiment with, at the very least a grain sealer for max resonance and as a clear, its insane.
I did alot of swirls, dips, color transfers on polyester encapsulated bodies. They never took on water. This process required to 'dunk' the bodies in water for the art processes. Just to give a further testimony for it. When the wood is kiln dried and ready, last thing you want is water or moisture before paint to get 'trapped' inside.
But thats another insight. Velcro Flys pics are increadible, great work and advice with follow up. Just so you guys know where I am coming from. I restore Corvettes and Old Muscle cars with the old paints. Fiberglass flexes and we have systems for that. So with guitars, I want solid , not flex and pliable. I want no reactions with sweat and heat, most of all resonance, but maybe color first with big metal flake too. So thats where polyester kills it. Color sand, and if you want you can buff it on a wheel no problem as long as you pay attention to heat. Thats the red/white compound. Many use Maguires Mirror as a finish. I don't like additives to the paint. Velcro Fly seems to think the same way. Shoot it, let it off gas together and SHINE AWAY. His spray technique is cleary VERY evident, you don't get those results unless you are a pro !, or tutled by one ;-)
* velcro-fly *
Well-known member
Thanks man, appreciate the kudos! It's all still very much a learning process but I think I've got it worked out at least for me. I ruined enough guitars with zero patience in the past but somehow figured out I can wait and let the stuff do its thing hahaha. That one hum Strat was actually a Bob Ross happy accident, learned a tough lesson about candy's but it worked out. That was a brown candy over silver base > silver metal flake and I was not paying attention on my first few passes and it got streaky (prob only a 25% overlap....) It took way more candy to even it out and by the time it worked the color was completely different, but I actually like it better than the intended color. Yes I did / do use the Maguires and an orbital from Harbor Freight at the end.
Great explanation on the paint differences and yeah the HOK stuff is badass. It's nice these guys are all offering up their stuff in spray cans. I've looked at some Harbor Freight spray guns, sheeeit for the price they're nearly disposable. I've been threatening to buy or build a DIY dry flake gun so I can launch bigger flake that you can get in rattle cans. The lack of clean up and ease of use has kept me coming back to the rattle cans.
I don't think people realize how much work goes into paint, honestly something from a guy like Dan Lawrence is a bargain, especially a graphic. Prep is everything, its crazy what shows up down the line and I've started over a few times because of fine scratches that were left and were painfully obvious after candy or clear. Tell you the thing I still haven't figured out is how to get a flush clean transition line on neck / fretboard area with neck through guitars, at least without scraping. Honestly only done 4 or 5 (and one of those 3x hahah) and its kind of the final hurdle with those, any insight is appreciated there.
Fun stuff, flake the World!
S
SmashingAtom
Member
Ha ha , super cool to hear back, your work is really good, so keep on it. The really hard transition your refering to , the neck area is a hard one. Its about the air. You can pull back and shoot it first, but shooting it last is going to box you in. Nice job, last spot etc. Also don't hit at a 90 degree. Hit it from a 45, and doing so means TWO 45. For example Left / Right . Flake is so hard to flow, drop and lay down right. I just sprayed my own car this weekend. Machine Silver, on a wrecked Corvette I rescued. She came out pretty good so far. But the flake will make you MAD when you know what your looking at. The big flake is no problem, but the smaller flake 'lays' down. And when you see it, your onto being mad. Its so much better to NOT KNOW ! LOL .
But , experience, like you have is the key. Keep it up friend. The Bob Ross analogy is so key. He showed us, ' happy trees'. Man o man do I have memes for that one, but its true. The prep is the unheralded breakneck work. Without it we have nothing, and to our customers, its hard for them to understand up front. What I literally do, is record the work. From inception to completion. The videos are remarkable. Every car has the documentation of the proper work, however, the customer always values the experience when it comes time to pay the bill. We, my staff and I, are proud about the conclusion of the restorations where the customer is excited and comfortable with the expensive outlay. We both invest in the outcome. Its the same thing with what your doing. Intensive work into extensive outcome and it looks awesome. You have a gift. Guitars, Motorcycle fairrings, etc. You have a career in front of you. I say GO FOR IT !!
But , experience, like you have is the key. Keep it up friend. The Bob Ross analogy is so key. He showed us, ' happy trees'. Man o man do I have memes for that one, but its true. The prep is the unheralded breakneck work. Without it we have nothing, and to our customers, its hard for them to understand up front. What I literally do, is record the work. From inception to completion. The videos are remarkable. Every car has the documentation of the proper work, however, the customer always values the experience when it comes time to pay the bill. We, my staff and I, are proud about the conclusion of the restorations where the customer is excited and comfortable with the expensive outlay. We both invest in the outcome. Its the same thing with what your doing. Intensive work into extensive outcome and it looks awesome. You have a gift. Guitars, Motorcycle fairrings, etc. You have a career in front of you. I say GO FOR IT !!