R
Rogue
New member
Woah. That's pretty serious. I'm thinking the information coming to our government is fairly different than the info coming through the media to us.EXPcustom":1k775dqi said:
skoora
Well-known member
boof":64itzr9q said:
They just need to send in the Professor with some vine and a pair of coconuts.
JTyson
Well-known member
How you guys holding up Boof??boof":2lwr153h said:
I saw snow this morning
EXPcustom
Well-known member
boof":1a8feri6 said:
Honestly if I were you I would figure out a way to get off the "island" now.
Honestly the situation is you have exposed fuel rods that are releasing radioactive material into the atmosphere, much worse than a exposed core reactor, the Japanese .gov have really dragged their feet and getting that thing recovered with water. Someone more knowledgable than me said he fears the actual tank has been compromised, so even if they get water on it, it will just leak out.
One of those tanks holds 1200 tons of water, the choppers and trucks were barely able to get 30 tons into it.
JTyson
Well-known member
I'm hearing a bunch of idiots over here on the news channels whining about the response of the Japanese govt to the situation. Like they could even do as good as the Japanese have. They could not even handle katrina, which was nothing compared to this. They are dragging out hundreds of people a day out of the mud and wrecked buildings, in snow, trying to evacuate people in the red zone of the reactors, while trying to run more electrical power over to the nuclear plant to try and save a even more catastrophic situation, dropping water on them from overhead, and blasting them with water cannons until they get power. All while trying to get needed survival supplies to tens of thousands of people with no shelters in winter-like conditions with a collapsed infrastructure and damaged roadways
WHAT ELSE WOULD THEY HAVE DONE??
WHAT ELSE WOULD THEY HAVE DONE??
R
Rogue
New member
I agree. While I don't think they've been as forthcoming (or perhaps too overwhelmed to realize) as they could have, they are dealing with an unprecedented situation. I'm sure certain things could have been handled better and more effectively, but I can't say their response has been poor. With us it's "uh, you"...."no, you"...."I'm sure it's you"..."we had a hurricane?"..."For fucks sakes....HELP!!!!!" for three or four days.JTyson":21qgiqwo said:I'm hearing a bunch of idiots over here on the news channels whining about the response of the Japanese govt to the situation. Like they could even do as good as the Japanese have. They could not even handle katrina, which was nothing compared to this. They are dragging out hundreds of people a day out of the mud and wrecked buildings, in snow, trying to evacuate people in the red zone of the reactors, while trying to run more electrical power over to the nuclear plant to try and save a even more catastrophic situation, dropping water on them from overhead, and blasting them with water cannons until they get power. All while trying to get needed survival supplies to tens of thousands of people with no shelters in winter-like conditions with a collapsed infrastructure and damaged roadways
WHAT ELSE WOULD THEY HAVE DONE??
EXPcustom
Well-known member
JTyson":vujumc0f said:I'm hearing a bunch of idiots over here on the news channels whining about the response of the Japanese govt to the situation. Like they could even do as good as the Japanese have. They could not even handle katrina, which was nothing compared to this. They are dragging out hundreds of people a day out of the mud and wrecked buildings, in snow, trying to evacuate people in the red zone of the reactors, while trying to run more electrical power over to the nuclear plant to try and save a even more catastrophic situation, dropping water on them from overhead, and blasting them with water cannons until they get power. All while trying to get needed survival supplies to tens of thousands of people with no shelters in winter-like conditions with a collapsed infrastructure and damaged roadways
WHAT ELSE WOULD THEY HAVE DONE??
Water in the spent fuel tank, as in yesterday.
They as in the nuke staff at the plant had plenty of outs till it got to this point.
That is all I am saying.
R
Rogue
New member
There might have been a lot of neglectful mistakes that has happened in the past 6 days, but really, you are sitting behind your computer screen on the other side of the planet watching the news. You are as clueless as anyone else here on what has happened, what they attempted, or how it all went down. Anyone that armchairs this situation from here, or most anywhere in the world, is just full of shit.EXPcustom":64l6fuot said:Water in the spent fuel tank, as in yesterday.
They as in the nuke staff at the plant had plenty of outs till it got to this point.
That is all I am saying.
JTyson
Well-known member
Oh, I know, that was not aimed at you, a guy on CNN was spouting off all kinds of nonsense about what he thought could have been done, if they had just this and that, it pissed me offEXPcustom":24xfyf9k said:JTyson":24xfyf9k said:I'm hearing a bunch of idiots over here on the news channels whining about the response of the Japanese govt to the situation. Like they could even do as good as the Japanese have. They could not even handle katrina, which was nothing compared to this. They are dragging out hundreds of people a day out of the mud and wrecked buildings, in snow, trying to evacuate people in the red zone of the reactors, while trying to run more electrical power over to the nuclear plant to try and save a even more catastrophic situation, dropping water on them from overhead, and blasting them with water cannons until they get power. All while trying to get needed survival supplies to tens of thousands of people with no shelters in winter-like conditions with a collapsed infrastructure and damaged roadways
WHAT ELSE WOULD THEY HAVE DONE??
Water in the spent fuel tank, as in yesterday.
They as in the nuke staff at the plant had plenty of outs till it got to this point.
That is all I am saying.
I'm sure if they could have done more sooner, they would have. I'm also sure that if we indeed knew the totality of the situation, the chain of decisions would have made more sense. We dont, we only know what we were told. Everyone here knows we were not told everything- we never are. Having to listen to armchair QB's who dont know their ass from a hole in the ground talk about how they would have done it is really pissing me off
The Japanese people in charge of that are as good or better in their fields as anyone on the planet, including here. We need to quit asking them questions that wont solve anything, quit second-guessing them and send all the help we can to them ASAP.
Again, that post had nothing to do with yours, it just happened to come after yours.
JTyson
Well-known member
This, exactly...Rogue":pz6299pf said:I agree. While I don't think they've been as forthcoming (or perhaps too overwhelmed to realize) as they could have, they are dealing with an unprecedented situation. I'm sure certain things could have been handled better and more effectively, but I can't say their response has been poor. With us it's "uh, you"...."no, you"...."I'm sure it's you"..."we had a hurricane?"..."For fucks sakes....HELP!!!!!" for three or four days.JTyson":pz6299pf said:I'm hearing a bunch of idiots over here on the news channels whining about the response of the Japanese govt to the situation. Like they could even do as good as the Japanese have. They could not even handle katrina, which was nothing compared to this. They are dragging out hundreds of people a day out of the mud and wrecked buildings, in snow, trying to evacuate people in the red zone of the reactors, while trying to run more electrical power over to the nuclear plant to try and save a even more catastrophic situation, dropping water on them from overhead, and blasting them with water cannons until they get power. All while trying to get needed survival supplies to tens of thousands of people with no shelters in winter-like conditions with a collapsed infrastructure and damaged roadways
WHAT ELSE WOULD THEY HAVE DONE??
hmmm.... is this a first??
MisterBulbous
Active member
Having been in Japan multiple times, I get the impression that there are not "countless" media outlets like we have with Fox, CNN, ABC, CBS,etc...Seems like the only news channel I ever see is NHK, thus the story seems to be singular and not bi-polar as we always have. I don't know how true that is, but even the US feeds are entirely NHK. Secondly, the media style in Japan comes across as very courteous and non-confrontational. I believe some of them had to be shocked when Anderson Cooper was over there asking blunt questions to the public officials. I don't think that is well-respected in Japan...
Code001
Well-known member
MisterBulbous":zoy0xza9 said:
NHK, TBS, FNN, ANN, NNN, etc.
MisterBulbous
Active member
Code001":2cpkjl07 said:
must be the expensive hotels I stay in.
So from your experience, is the media coverage as opinionated as it appears to be here in the US?
Code001
Well-known member
I'm having a hard time answering that. I'm not fully up to par on Japanese politics, so I couldn't tell you which station has which bias. Coming from an American's perspective, they're all fairly liberal. I find they tend to be less sensationalistic than our news. There's like this unwritten script and set of laws, way of speaking, etc. that they have to follow.
boof could answer that question better than I could. Most of the TV shows I watch tend to be idol shows that flaunt little girls around everywhere.
I find they tend to be less sensationalistic than our news. There's like this unwritten script and set of laws, way of speaking, etc. that they have to follow.boof could answer that question better than I could. Most of the TV shows I watch tend to be idol shows that flaunt little girls around everywhere.
MisterBulbous
Active member
Code001":390nm3w1 said:I'm having a hard time answering that. I'm not fully up to par on Japanese politics, so I couldn't tell you which station has which bias. Coming from an American's perspective, they're all fairly liberal.
boof could answer that question better than I could. Most of the TV shows I watch tend to be idol shows that flaunt little girls around everywhere.
Cool. No big deal. I usually end uP in the hotel rooms where you have to drop coins in the tv slot!
Code001
Well-known member
You can watch Japanese news for free right now:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tbstv
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-gtv
It's all in Japanese, so if you don't know the language, it probably won't be too helpful. It should at least give you an idea as to how Japan runs their regular news outlets.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tbstv
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-gtv
It's all in Japanese, so if you don't know the language, it probably won't be too helpful. It should at least give you an idea as to how Japan runs their regular news outlets.
stephen sawall
SEMI ERECT MEMBER
If I was making decisions I would do what Russia did with Chernobyl ~ use the military to cover it with sand, cement and chemicals. The sooner the better .....
Code001
Well-known member
T
TTripp
New member
duesentrieb":2hstsjp2 said:
Bah, radiation is good for you, doncha know:
A GLOWING REPORT ON RADIATION
March 16, 2011
Ann Coullter
With the terrible earthquake and resulting tsunami that have devastated Japan, the only good news is that anyone exposed to excess radiation from the nuclear power plants is now probably much less likely to get cancer.
This only seems counterintuitive because of media hysteria for the past 20 years trying to convince Americans that radiation at any dose is bad. There is, however, burgeoning evidence that excess radiation operates as a sort of cancer vaccine.
As The New York Times science section reported in 2001, an increasing number of scientists believe that at some level -- much higher than the minimums set by the U.S. government -- radiation is good for you. "They theorize," the Times said, that "these doses protect against cancer by activating cells' natural defense mechanisms."
Among the studies mentioned by the Times was one in Canada finding that tuberculosis patients subjected to multiple chest X-rays had much lower rates of breast cancer than the general population.
And there are lots more!
A $10 million Department of Energy study from 1991 examined 10 years of epidemiological research by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health on 700,000 shipyard workers, some of whom had been exposed to 10 times more radiation than the others from their work on the ships' nuclear reactors. The workers exposed to excess radiation had a 24 percent lower death rate and a 25 percent lower cancer mortality than the non-irradiated workers.
Isn't that just incredible? I mean, that the Department of Energy spent $10 million doing something useful? Amazing, right?
In 1983, a series of apartment buildings in Taiwan were accidentally constructed with massive amounts of cobalt 60, a radioactive substance. After 16 years, the buildings' 10,000 occupants developed only five cases of cancer. The cancer rate for the same age group in the general Taiwanese population over that time period predicted 170 cancers.
The people in those buildings had been exposed to radiation nearly five times the maximum "safe" level according to the U.S. government. But they ended up with a cancer rate 96 percent lower than the general population.
Bernard L. Cohen, a physics professor at the University of Pittsburgh, compared radon exposure and lung cancer rates in 1,729 counties covering 90 percent of the U.S. population. His study in the 1990s found far fewer cases of lung cancer in those counties with the highest amounts of radon -- a correlation that could not be explained by smoking rates.
Tom Bethell, author of the The Politically Incorrect Guide to Science has been writing for years about the beneficial effects of some radiation, or "hormesis." A few years ago, he reported on a group of scientists who concluded their conference on hormesis at the University of Massachusetts by repairing to a spa in Boulder, Mont., specifically in order to expose themselves to excess radiation.
At the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine in Boulder, people pay $5 to descend 85 feet into an old mining pit to be irradiated with more than 400 times the EPA-recommended level of radon. In the summer, 50 people a day visit the mine hoping for relief from chronic pain and autoimmune disorders.
Amazingly, even the Soviet-engineered disaster at Chernobyl in 1986 can be directly blamed for the deaths of no more than the 31 people inside the plant who died in the explosion. Although news reports generally claimed a few thousand people died as a result of Chernobyl -- far fewer than the tens of thousands initially predicted -- that hasn't been confirmed by studies.
Indeed, after endless investigations, including by the United Nations, Manhattan Project veteran Theodore Rockwell summarized the reports to Bethell in 2002, saying, "They have not yet reported any deaths outside of the 30 who died in the plant."
Even the thyroid cancers in people who lived near the reactor were attributed to low iodine in the Russian diet -- and consequently had no effect on the cancer rate.
Meanwhile, the animals around the Chernobyl reactor, who were not evacuated, are "thriving," according to scientists quoted in the April 28, 2002 Sunday Times (UK).
Dr. Dade W. Moeller, a radiation expert and professor emeritus at Harvard, told The New York Times that it's been hard to find excess cancers even from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, particularly because one-third of the population will get cancer anyway. There were about 90,000 survivors of the atomic bombs in 1945 and, more than 50 years later, half of them were still alive. (Other scientists say there were 700 excess cancer deaths among the 90,000.)
Although it is hardly a settled scientific fact that excess radiation is a health benefit, there's certainly evidence that it decreases the risk of some cancers -- and there are plenty of scientists willing to say so. But Jenny McCarthy's vaccine theories get more press than Harvard physics professors' studies on the potential benefits of radiation. (And they say conservatives are anti-science!)
I guess good radiation stories are not as exciting as news anchors warning of mutant humans and scary nuclear power plants -- news anchors who, by the way, have injected small amounts of poison into their foreheads to stave off wrinkles. Which is to say: The general theory that small amounts of toxins can be healthy is widely accepted --except in the case of radiation.
Every day Americans pop multivitamins containing trace amount of zinc, magnesium, selenium, copper, manganese, chromium, molybdenum, nickel, boron -- all poisons.
They get flu shots. They'll drink copious amounts of coffee to ingest a poison: caffeine. (Back in the '70s, Professor Cohen offered to eat as much plutonium as Ralph Nader would eat caffeine -- an offer Nader never accepted.)
But in the case of radiation, the media have Americans convinced that the minutest amount is always deadly.
Although reporters love to issue sensationalized reports about the danger from Japan's nuclear reactors, remember that, so far, thousands have died only because of Mother Nature. And the survivors may outlive all of us over here in hermetically sealed, radiation-free America.
67Mopar
New member
Here's live streaming of a Geiger counter in west LA...
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-radi ... om-west-la
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-radi ... om-west-la