Bash_Man
Well-known member
How would you describe the difference between the JJ E83CC and the Psvane when it comes to high gain sound?
Dr. Tweedbucket
Active member
Really? I have a bunch from 5 to 10 years ago and they were pretty good back then. Cheap too.
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Skolphy
Active member
The Psvane has a bit more raw natural aggressiveness...just a touch more..both tubes a re good, but for my taste the Psvane is my choice.
S
Skolphy
Active member
For some reason I just never really liked the JJ preamp tubes, but I've had good luck with their 6L6s...had a block letter a while back and JJ's were just killer in it...never had any failure from them either..just lucky I guess in that respect.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
I wonder if anybody has A/B'd one of these against an original Tesla E83CC frame grid?
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braintheory
Well-known member
I have. Also with an original Siemens E83CC and Telefunken ECC803S. Not many AB’s I haven’t done at this point lol
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Perfect. What were your findings? I'm actually thinking about grabbing both the Tesla E83CC (not JJ) as well as Siemens ECC83 dual post and E83CC triple mica. That last one comes in both dual and single post. Not sure if there's a difference.
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braintheory
Well-known member
The Tesla E83CC is one of my favorite preamp tubes for high gain. Robust, heavy, dense, militarist sound to me. These were my detailed thoughts copy and pasted from a pm someone asked about when I just did the comparisons fresh in my mind months ago:
I also did the mandatory shootout of the Telefunken ECC803S with the Siemens E83CC, Tesla E83CC and JJ ECC803S. They all sounded to me overall pretty different from each other, some things I heard in common, but overall liked them all. The Tesla seemed to sound the most open, biggest lows and punchy. The Siemens seemed the smallest/leanest sounding of the bunch, but has a really nice and musical, creamy midrange and uppermid quality about it. The Telefunken was quite dark compared to most of my tubes and really smooth, which was not my preference, but it also had this refined silky quality about it that I like, but wouldn’t be my choice for metal or more aggressive styles of music. The JJ I hate to admit it, but actually liked it a lot too. The JJ and Tesla had the most in common of the bunch. It had a nice growl, also big sounding, but maybe a little tubby and not as tonally complex as the Telefunken or Siemens. Tesla was my favorite, but they were all different flavors. Outside of metal the Siemens E83CC I’d probably consider the best of them
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Which Siemens version was this? Double mica or triple mica? If triple, was it dual post or single post?
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braintheory
Well-known member
They’re all triple mica (I’ve got a bunch of them). What do I look for in posts? Pardon my ignorance lol. 6681 versions also if that helps or means anything
FourT6and2
Well-known member
The third, top mica isn't really a mica support. It's a getter splash shield (doesn't make contact with the sides of the glass. It's held by two support rods/structures. Then above that is the actual getter ring. That getter ring is held in place by either one single support or two.
Top photo is single post. Bottom photo is dual.
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braintheory
Well-known member
I can’t find my 3rd one right now, but one is single post and the other is dual. I remember they all sounded very similar to me when compared, but the one I kept in my drawer that has my favorite version of each preferred tube of mine lol is a single post versionThe third, top mica isn't really a mica support. It's a getter splash shield (doesn't make contact with the sides of the glass. It's held by two support rods/structors. Then above that is the actual getter ring. That getter ring is held in place by either one single support or two.
Top photo is single post. Bottom photo is dual.
In terms of sound and functionality what differences should I except with things like the number of posts, micas, ribbed vs smooth plates, plate length, material, etc?
FourT6and2
Well-known member
I have no idea haha. That's what I'm trying to find out by asking people who have them.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
I should clarify that, on paper, the dual post one might have lower mechanical noise? The getter is supported on either side. So maybe less vibrations. I imagine there's a reason Siemens made them both ways and then due to economics, changed to the single post version made from stamped metal instead of the dual post version using metal folded to form a box (more complex and costly).
I keep reading that frame grid tubes are supposedly better though. Like the Tesla E83CC and famed Telefunken. Much lower microphonics all around. The frame is a rigid structure that supports the grid wire, which can be wrapped much tighter, using thinner wire. Whereas the normal grid version... the grid wire itself holds the grid posts in place and the grid wire is thicker and formed around the posts in a rigid pattern. So the frame grid version... the frame supports the wire (lower noise). In the normal version, the grid wire supports the grid posts (higher susceptibility to noise).
I keep reading that frame grid tubes are supposedly better though. Like the Tesla E83CC and famed Telefunken. Much lower microphonics all around. The frame is a rigid structure that supports the grid wire, which can be wrapped much tighter, using thinner wire. Whereas the normal grid version... the grid wire itself holds the grid posts in place and the grid wire is thicker and formed around the posts in a rigid pattern. So the frame grid version... the frame supports the wire (lower noise). In the normal version, the grid wire supports the grid posts (higher susceptibility to noise).
Music&Chaos
Well-known member
I put NOS tubes in every position the amp can handle. For my Rivera, I have NOS RCA 12ax7 long black plates and they kill any other tube I have tried in my rig. YMMV
CDawg
Active member
All the 12AX7 I've seen resemble a bell curve once you get measuring. The exception being a Russian Genalex 12AX7 which I believe is factory selected because it is so balanced and consistent in measurements compared to any other 12AX7. It's more about finding an excellent tube than anything else. I like them all but the triple mica with the single ring getter on a copper post is my favorite.
The difference in noise between a Siemens E83CC and a Tesla E83CC is about -3 dBv per triode on a Maxipreamp II. Go on ebay and type 12AX7 maxi or something similar and look at test results of any tube you want to get an idea of what that 12AX7 will test. Compare anything to a new Siemens E83CC which is about -87.5 average and I've seen myself and others hit -89.5 on a good example . The limit of a 12AX7 according to the tester is -92.
Can't say much for microphonics in terms of measurements but Siemens beats Tesla IMO.
Tesla E83CC is also one of my favorite tubes but for entirely different reasons.
WizardAmpIphoneClip
Well-known member
Never could tell much of a difference in these things once the rest of the band kicked in tbh