Just wanted to swing by and let you know the best amp in the world are...

[DanTravis62]

Some guys don't like when I mention it, but there really is something to the mids of both my '67 and '79 JMP2203 that none of my other 25 amps have. This is where other amps come off hollow to me, however, my Wizard MTL still punches so hard in such a way that none of my other amps can do. Not that it punches more than other amps, just harder if that makes sense. I'm not convinced that any Marshall can match that one aspect of it, but who knows. I'm hoping a Larry or Schroeder Formula could maybe do it or fingers crossed exceed it there. Seems no amp has it all IME

This generally vibes with my experiences too. Old marshalls have a midrange cut that's unlike anything else.

I will say though, that though the high gain Larrys can DO that "harder punch" (the "punch" control for the british, british hot rod, and scream channels is really useful for getting that chest pounding thing that the wizards do - but it's on a pot, and controllable) it's really another feature you can use to dial in to taste.

It's not the main draw, or the amps defining attribute, if that makes sense. At least in my opinion, it's more the trainwreck-meets marshall detailed high end, the tightness, and the "kerrang" that set it apart tonally. No amp has everything, its just a matter of finding the amp that has what you need as a player.

 

[braintheory]

This generally vibes with my experiences too. Old marshalls have a midrange cut that's unlike anything else.

I will say though, that though the high gain Larrys can DO that "harder punch" (the "punch" control for the british, british hot rod, and scream channels is really useful for getting that chest pounding thing that the wizards do - but it's on a pot, and controllable) it's really another feature you can use to dial in to taste.

It's not the main draw, or the amps defining attribute, if that makes sense. At least in my opinion, it's more the trainwreck-meets marshall detailed high end, the tightness, and the "kerrang" that set it apart tonally. No amp has everything, its just a matter of finding the amp that has what you need as a player.

That’s what’s cool about my ‘67 tremolo. It’s dark and very pleasant sounding, nothing remotely grating about it yet still one of my more cutting amps because of that Marshall midrange that still makes it aggressive. I tend not realize just how loud it is when I play it because of how pleasant/not harsh it is. Those ‘67’s and earlier aren’t bright or kerrang-y like the later ones

I’ll have to AB the PMM when it finally arrives. So far nothing I’ve had is as hard punching as my MTL. Would love to see something finally dethrone it in that area or at least equal it because the hollowness still bothers my ears

My 2 Alessandro’s have a Marshall, Trainwreck hybrid vibe. Possibly my favorite overall amps I own, but not for metal or hard rock (anything else really)

 

[braintheory]

This generally vibes with my experiences too. Old marshalls have a midrange cut that's unlike anything else.

I will say though, that though the high gain Larrys can DO that "harder punch" (the "punch" control for the british, british hot rod, and scream channels is really useful for getting that chest pounding thing that the wizards do - but it's on a pot, and controllable) it's really another feature you can use to dial in to taste.

It's not the main draw, or the amps defining attribute, if that makes sense. At least in my opinion, it's more the trainwreck-meets marshall detailed high end, the tightness, and the "kerrang" that set it apart tonally. No amp has everything, its just a matter of finding the amp that has what you need as a player.

Tightness and kerrang definitely are the things I’m most impressed by in the clips of it. I’ve been trying to get a sound with my current amps that’s as effective for those fast frosty riffs as your Larry and none do it as well. Closest I’ve gotten so far was my Naylor boosted and loaded with EL34’s, but still not as good for that stuff

 

[ericb]

I like this clip

Hey thanks for posting that. . I've been listening to that guy's clips for 45 minutes solid after I heard his playing and tones there. His SLO100 clips kick ass too tonewise. All of his videos kick ass playing-wise.


Eric

 

[MetalHeadMike]

That’s what’s cool about my ‘67 tremolo. It’s dark and very pleasant sounding, nothing remotely grating about it yet, still one of my more cutting amps because of that Marshall midrange that still makes it aggressive. I tend not realize just how loud it is when I play it because of how pleasant/not harsh it is. Those ‘67’s and earlier aren’t bright or kerrang-y like the later ones

I’ll have to AB the PMM when it finally arrives. So far nothing I’ve had is as hard punching as my MTL. Would love to see something finally dethrone it in that area or at least equal it because the hollowness still bothers my ears

My 2 Alessandro’s have a Marshall, Trainwreck hybrid vibe. Possibly my favorite overall amps I own, but not for metal or hard rock (anything else really)

Why not just have someone mod the MTL to give it the mids you want?

I know you had an early MCI and still feel it's more hollow than the Marshall, and I'm sure it was, but talking Wizard to Wizard, side by side the '16 MTL and '17 MCII I had were no contest in the mids department to my ears. I packed up the MTL within a week and sold it. DIdn't matter what I did with different ODs, eqs in the loop or out front or both, different pups, speakers, guitars...was just missing the mid/upper mid content I like. The MCII has WAY more going on in the mid to upper mid frequencies and somehow still has a killer low mid growl mixed in there too.

The MC25 has great mids too but just didn't hit hard enough for me.

 

[braintheory]

Why not just have someone mod the MTL to give it the mids you want?

I know you had an early MCI and still feel it's more hollow than the Marshall, and I'm sure it was, but talking Wizard to Wizard, side by side the '16 MTL and '17 MCII I had were no contest in the mids department to my ears. I packed up the MTL within a week and sold it. DIdn't matter what I did with different ODs, eqs in the loop or out front or both, different pups, speakers, guitars...was just missing the mid/upper mid content I like. The MCII has WAY more going on in the mid to upper mid frequencies and somehow still has a killer low mid growl mixed in there too.

The MC25 has great mids too but just didn't hit hard enough for me.

I found my MCI and MTL both equally hollow. The mids and upper mids were definitely way more present, but equally hollow in actual quality and lacking in growl for my taste. I’m not so sure if it’s possible or not to mod the amp for less hollowness, but I’m not a tech guy, so wouldn’t know. I heard the Fortin Maxwatt is supposed to be on paper a Hiwatt with Aldrich mod, yet that quintessential hollow Hiwatt tone was 100% there to my ears in all clips I heard. If an Aldrich mod doesn’t get rid of hollowness I seriously wonder what can. I think my ears just are sensitive to that hollowness. A lot of amps I feel can be that way. I’ve had lots of modded Marshall’s and Fenders and those amps still maintained much of their core sound, but of course a lot more gain, compression and some voicing changes, but the Fenders still had their relatively smoother, more scooped mids

With both the MTL and MCI I had tube swaps, different boosts, guitars, pickups speakers didn’t do it. I just think if I get an amp that matches or exceeds that hard punch it makes a lot more sense for me to just sell it than mod it and try to make it something it’s not and don’t even know who would mod it. When I put EL34’s in my Naylor it was pretty close to sending my MTL packing for my taste, but still didn’t quite have the punch or openness. I’m very careful of what I let go of, so will just hang onto it for now. I still really love the amp don’t get me wrong, I just always acknowledge tonal flaws that I feel any gear has. I don’t let that stuff go haha. I guess I’ve been extra critical of hollowness lately, but there’s stuff wrong to me with all my amps. None do it all lol. Even the Dumble I tried, best sound I’ve ever heard hands down, wasn’t imo perfect in every way. Same with people

 

[232cap]

Boosted 78 2203 jmp here.

 

[Fiesta Red]

is

 

[DanTravis62]

Tightness and kerrang definitely are the things I’m most impressed by in the clips of it. I’ve been trying to get a sound with my current amps that’s as effective for those fast frosty riffs as your Larry and none do it as well. Closest I’ve gotten so far was my Naylor boosted and loaded with EL34’s, but still not as good for that stuff

Yeah that's exactly why its THE amp for my playing. I totally get if it isnt everyones style, but it does a really unique thing that it excels at.

That’s what’s cool about my ‘67 tremolo. It’s dark and very pleasant sounding, nothing remotely grating about it yet still one of my more cutting amps because of that Marshall midrange that still makes it aggressive. I tend not realize just how loud it is when I play it because of how pleasant/not harsh it is. Those ‘67’s and earlier aren’t bright or kerrang-y like the later ones

I’ll have to AB the PMM when it finally arrives. So far nothing I’ve had is as hard punching as my MTL. Would love to see something finally dethrone it in that area or at least equal it because the hollowness still bothers my ears

My 2 Alessandro’s have a Marshall, Trainwreck hybrid vibe. Possibly my favorite overall amps I own, but not for metal or hard rock (anything else really)

Yes that's one of the things that sets the good old marshalls from the incredible ones. If you can turn them up really loud, but it isn't unpleasant or there isn't any harsh frequencies.

And about the trainwreck thing, the larry is obviously m-based at the lowest level, but it really behaves like its own thing. The trainwreck thing is just a reference to the high end - its certainly not marshall style, and its closest to the gainier Rockets and Expresses. The midrange is close to a great plexi, and the low end really hits hard like a hiwatt style or wizard. That's just the best way to put it. It's not exactly like any of those things.

 

[braintheory]

Yeah that's exactly why its THE amp for my playing. I totally get if it isnt everyones style, but it does a really unique thing that it excels at.



Yes that's one of the things that sets the good old marshalls from the incredible ones. If you can turn them up really loud, but it isn't unpleasant or there isn't any harsh frequencies.

And about the trainwreck thing, the larry is obviously m-based at the lowest level, but it really behaves like its own thing. The trainwreck thing is just a reference to the high end - its certainly not marshall style, and its closest to the gainier Rockets and Expresses. The midrange is close to a great plexi, and the low end really hits hard like a hiwatt style or wizard. That's just the best way to put it. It's not exactly like any of those things.

I get the sense it can be great for a lot of guy’s styles. I haven’t really heard it much yet though in the context of lead work, so curious about that

So far the other 4 Marshall’s I’ve tried made from ‘67 or before were also like mine in that regard. Not harsh. They’re amazing amps, just not as tight, aggressive or kerrang-y like the later ones. Softer. Mine basically sounds like a 10/10 Hendrix or Clapton sound almost all the time. Seems to not wanna escape that ballpark. I tried last summer a ‘60’s JTM45/100 that sounded killer! Really punchy and big, but $18,000 asking price

 

[DanTravis62]

I ried last summer a ‘60’s JTM45/100 that sounded killer! Really punchy and big, but $18,000 asking price

Holy shit ???

18k lol

 

[braintheory]

Holy shit ???

18k lol

Yeah the 100 watt versions of those are rare, but that store tends to over price a lot of stuff in general. Wish it were a more attainable price for me. It seemed to have that great Marshall tone with a punch and biggness that I wonder if maybe could’ve rivaled a Hiwatt? Would’ve had to AB to know, but sounded really big and robust

I still may have preferred the tone itself of the regular ‘60’s JTM45, but hard to say without direct comparison

 

[Bloodrock]

Bitches be pimpin' the IiC+'s lately.... must be a few coming in the market soon... lol. There's nothing exponentially better about that sharpied plus sign. I'll take a MKIV all day long.

 

[Racerxrated]

Yeah the 100 watt versions of those are rare, but that store tends to over price a lot of stuff in general. Wish it were a more attainable price for me. It seemed to have that great Marshall tone with a punch and biggness that I wonder if maybe could’ve rivaled a Hiwatt? Would’ve had to AB to know, but sounded really big and robust

I still may have preferred the tone itself of the regular ‘60’s JTM45, but hard to say without direct comparison

I had a 2012 MTL 50w, and a 2010 MCI00 with the C transformers, which are the most 'Marshall' of Ricks sets. While I wouldn't say the MCi had hollow mids(the MTL definitely had them) they just aren't quite the same as a real deal vintage JMP. In comparison r/t punch, the only advantage I'd give the Wizard would be the tight huge punchy lows...I can get great tight punchy low end from my 72, just the right amount by blending in the Rhythm channel at volume (remember, I double boost my 72 which puts the output wattage somewhere north of 200W!!!) but they don't approach how huge the Wizard sounded in the low end. But, that searing/cutting midrange of the Marshall is something to behold.
I'll never knock any Wizard, they are great amps in their own right but a great vintage 100w Marshall can do almost everything the Wizard does with better authentic Marshall mids....with a boost or two.

 

[Racerxrated]

Bitches be pimpin' the IiC+'s lately.... must be a few coming in the market soon... lol. There's nothing exponentially better about that sharpied plus sign. I'll take a MKIV all day long.

Well, I do think the IV sounds killer and better/closer to a C+ vibe than the JP2C honestly. But the IV doesn't have the same clarity or feel, of a real deal C+.
Is it worth the price difference? Only you can say, after playing a real one....

 

[Beyond Black]

Well, I do think the IV sounds killer and better/closer to a C+ vibe than the JP2C honestly. But the IV doesn't have the same clarity or feel, of a real deal C+.
Is it worth the price difference? Only you can say, after playing a real one....

Agreed. I love the Mark IV, but the C+ is next level.

 

[cardinal]

C+ is awesome and I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cereal but when I had one, I don't think I could have heard the difference between it and the Mark III I also had. They felt different though. III was stiffer and the spongier(?) softer(?) C+ was more fun/engaging. But if you're just blasting thrash, that difference sorta is lost.

 

[braintheory]

I had a 2012 MTL 50w, and a 2010 MCI00 with the C transformers, which are the most 'Marshall' of Ricks sets. While I wouldn't say the MCi had hollow mids(the MTL definitely had them) they just aren't quite the same as a real deal vintage JMP. In comparison r/t punch, the only advantage I'd give the Wizard would be the tight huge punchy lows...I can get great tight punchy low end from my 72, just the right amount by blending in the Rhythm channel at volume (remember, I double boost my 72 which puts the output wattage somewhere north of 200W!!!) but they don't approach how huge the Wizard sounded in the low end. But, that searing/cutting midrange of the Marshall is something to behold.
I'll never knock any Wizard, they are great amps in their own right but a great vintage 100w Marshall can do almost everything the Wizard does with better authentic Marshall mids....with a boost or two.

That’s what I was saying, none of my other amps quite punch as hard as my 2016 MTL 100 (V Transformers). The ‘67 punches more in a way despite being 50 watts vs 100w for the MTL, but the ‘67 (and my ‘79 2203) punch much softer like pillows, while with the MTL you’re getting hit with blocks of granite. My other amps can’t quite punch the same way. It’s an impressive quality that’s kept it around for me

The ‘96 MCI 100w I had also had C Transformers. It had plenty of mids and uppermids, much more than my MTL w/ V transformers, but still imo equally hollow in nature as my MTL, just much more present in those frequencies, but smooth, lacking growl. My ‘67, despite being dark sounding, has the same midrange as my ‘79 JMP2203, so it’s still aggressive their and similarly cutting, just not a bright or kerrang-y amp like the later ones. I would say also my Marshall’s can do almost everything they can, but still not enough to send it packing sadly

 

[braintheory]

Like others said, the IV’s are killer amps with their own thing, but I’ve AB’ed them with my c+ hrg and they don’t have the same level of clarity or tonal complexity (less going on in each note with the IV) and they are less raw, smoother, more polished than the c+ (for some maybe that’s a good thing). They don’t pick up as much details as to how each note is picked/executed. It also wasn’t as tight or fast responding as my c+ hrg and play just simple long held chords and I could hear how much more growl and detail was happening in chords on the c+. I don’t think iic+‘s should go for as much as they do now, I won’t be paying current prices for them, but what can you do? Just talk down on them or say they’re overrated? It is what is. The Klon’s have become even more stupidly priced, but to my ears they are special. Even the Decibelics I have I find to not measure up to the real deal. I also actually think the early no stripe is probably the next best I’ve tried to a c+, but IV’s are great too

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Like others said, the IV’s are killer amps with their own thing, but I’ve AB’ed them with my c+ hrg and they don’t have the same level of clarity or tonal complexity (less going on in each note with the IV) and they are less raw, smoother, more polished than the c+ (for some maybe that’s a good thing). They don’t pick up as much details as to how each note is picked/executed. It also wasn’t as tight or fast responding as my c+ hrg and play just simple long held chords and I could hear how much more growl and detail was happening in chords on the c+. I don’t think iic+‘s should go for as much as they do now, I won’t be paying current prices for them, but what can you do? Just talk down on them or say they’re overrated? It is what is. The Klon’s have become even more stupidly priced, but to my ears they are special. Even the Decibelics I have I find to not measure up to the real deal. I also actually think the early no stripe is probably the next best I’ve tried to a c+, but IV’s are great too

The MKIV is much darker, more compressed, and less defined sounding overall compared to a MKIIC+ DRG/HRG... or even a good MKIII+. The 2C+/3+ are more raw and open sounding. Not really close either. The MKIV sacrificed great tone for a useless a 2nd channel. Like a Triaxis in an amp head format.