Kemper Profiling Amp

[voma79]

Im not trying to knock this thing or anything, first. Ive watched the demos and it looks absolutely amazing. Seems like an incredibly accurate way to get some different tones.
But... the thing i dont understand is what separates this from any other "modeler." I understand that it doesnt have models, but you make profiles and can tweak them further after the fact. But it seems like this is just the ability to "model" what ever you want. IF so why not just sell a box that can play these profiled models without actually having to go through process of profiling them yourself. And this essentially brings us back to just a Line 6 POD or Eleven Rack (like I own) or an AxeFX. I dont mean to crap on the idea, like i said i think its awesome and incredible and could revolutionize in the industry and all that. I wish i had it 10 years ago before i sold my room of amps!
I guess its the ability to capture whatever you want, but how many of us will have access to a lot of different amazing amps?
Just my humble opinion

 

[Audioholic]

Im not trying to knock this thing or anything, first. Ive watched the demos and it looks absolutely amazing. Seems like an incredibly accurate way to get some different tones.
But... the thing i dont understand is what separates this from any other "modeler." I understand that it doesnt have models, but you make profiles and can tweak them further after the fact. But it seems like this is just the ability to "model" what ever you want. IF so why not just sell a box that can play these profiled models without actually having to go through process of profiling them yourself. And this essentially brings us back to just a Line 6 POD or Eleven Rack (like I own) or an AxeFX. I dont mean to crap on the idea, like i said i think its awesome and incredible and could revolutionize in the industry and all that. I wish i had it 10 years ago before i sold my room of amps!
I guess its the ability to capture whatever you want, but how many of us will have access to a lot of different amazing amps?
Just my humble opinion

Relying on just the manufacturer to supply models limits to only what they release. with the ability to take the profiling into your own hands and the users hands, this gives the user control and ability to profile any amp, ANY TIME they want. not just pass around general patches that may or may not sound like the real thing, these are the real thing. its awesome, and it works. it comes loaded with patches but more are being uploaded everyday,. like I said these aren't models or the manufaturers idea what a mesa boogie dual rec should sound like, these are real captures of the actual amp, the actual cab, turned into a digital profile. the idea is pretty awesome actually, allow the end user to use it not only to play the profiles, but create their own ones that will sound just like the real amp. it relies on the community to share as well. right now there are almost 30 pages of user supplied presets, from some great amps, its killer.

 

[voma79]

right on man, thank for the reply. I really mean no disrespect to Kemper and their product so thanks for not just saying im trying to bash it. It really does seem like a wonderful thing. I mean what stops someone from running up their Guitar Center Card and just snagging one of everything for a few days and profiling it, then returning it. Just saying, not that i would or anything. I would love to hear what other people think of the Kemper. Just user experience you know, i havent been able to use one yet and would love to know what rig-talkers think of it.
Thanks

 

[Audioholic]

right on man, thank for the reply. I really mean no disrespect to Kemper and their product so thanks for not just saying im trying to bash it. It really does seem like a wonderful thing. I mean what stops someone from running up their Guitar Center Card and just snagging one of everything for a few days and profiling it, then returning it. Just saying, not that i would or anything. I would love to hear what other people think of the Kemper. Just user experience you know, i havent been able to use one yet and would love to know what rig-talkers think of it.
Thanks

I was thinking the same thing. I would personally never do that,or buy an amp just to profile it and send back, but I am sure someone will. haha. I have a friend coming over with his Mark V to give it a try

 

[narad]

I wish i had it 10 years ago before i sold my room of amps!
I guess its the ability to capture whatever you want, but how many of us will have access to a lot of different amazing amps?
Just my humble opinion

Nah, I agree. For me it's mostly just poor nomenclature - call a spade a spade: what's in the box is not fundamentally any different than what's in an axe, eleven rack, or pod. The forum marketing's been great in somehow getting tube-crazy guys to think this is different or more true *in principle* than other digital gear. It's not - each patch has a set of parameters, and you can set these by hand or you can set these automatically via profiling, but you're doing the same thing.

Profiles, patches - same thing. If some guy can make an axe patch that sounds like a violin, that's about all the evidence I need to know that having a particular set of models doesn't box you in to a particular sound. All I care about is who has the best processor and who has the best algorithms - that's going to be what sets the ceiling on sound and feel, but I haven't seen a side-by-side breakdown there.

Isn't the whole point of modeling that I can have hundreds of amps/patches right there, ready to go? And how do I get them? Some I make, but mostly I'm downloading other guys' patches and tweaking them just a little. If I had a room full of amps to profile, why would I want to profile them - I'd just play the damn things! So when people say game-changer, as they do in literally every kemper thread I've read here, I have to roll my eyes. No one likes to tweak stuff by hand, but requiring the amps you profile seems like a poor fit for most users, and barring that you're just downloading other people's profiles off the net the same you would a pod, eleven rack, or axe-fx. It's still 1. buy box, 2. acquire/download patches, 3. tweak patches, 4. play

You want a game-changer? Imagine this technology pushed further. You're listening to something you want to play along to or an album with the perfect tone for what you want to play, you plug the track into the box, it separates out the guitar and profiles it, and a few seconds later you've got the tone that was on the track coming out of the guitar. That's still far-fetched out in future-world, but at least that actually fits what an end user wants out of profiling.

Though it has been annoying that Cliff has had such a stranglehold on the market that he can run the business and distribution absolutely any way he wants and there's still a line a year out waiting to get their hands on it. You know the saying "vote with your dollars"? When you're that backed up with orders, you really don't have to listen to user wants at all* With Kemper around, at least he has to be a bit more customer-driven than he has so far.




*though that forum is especially whiney…if I was Cliff I'd pay a guy $20 a day to read through all the trolling and report back with the 4-5 useful constructive posts each day

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

This is crazy technology...on some clips i think i hear a difference and in others, the difference is so slight there is nothing to worry about. I always hated the way modelling made an amp sound fizzy or too bass heavy. This really is the best thing going right now if we are considering digital...I'd love to hear someone kemper a superlead or JMP though.

 

[manyaxes]

right on man, thank for the reply. I really mean no disrespect to Kemper and their product so thanks for not just saying im trying to bash it. It really does seem like a wonderful thing. I mean what stops someone from running up their Guitar Center Card and just snagging one of everything for a few days and profiling it, then returning it. Just saying, not that i would or anything. I would love to hear what other people think of the Kemper. Just user experience you know, i havent been able to use one yet and would love to know what rig-talkers think of it.
Thanks

I was thinking the same thing. I would personally never do that,or buy an amp just to profile it and send back, but I am sure someone will. haha. I have a friend coming over with his Mark V to give it a try

I haven't tried a Kemper, but from what I've read you won't be able to tweak the Mark V's pre-eq (the knobs) once you have profiled the amp in the Kemper. You will be able to tweak the post-eq (the graphic one) but limited to the Kemper's treble, mid and bass knobs. In other words, the eq knobs will be set in stone in the profile, and the graphic eq will have to be approximated with 3 regular eq knobs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Shask]

right on man, thank for the reply. I really mean no disrespect to Kemper and their product so thanks for not just saying im trying to bash it. It really does seem like a wonderful thing. I mean what stops someone from running up their Guitar Center Card and just snagging one of everything for a few days and profiling it, then returning it. Just saying, not that i would or anything. I would love to hear what other people think of the Kemper. Just user experience you know, i havent been able to use one yet and would love to know what rig-talkers think of it.
Thanks

I was thinking the same thing. I would personally never do that,or buy an amp just to profile it and send back, but I am sure someone will. haha. I have a friend coming over with his Mark V to give it a try

I haven't tried a Kemper, but from what I've read you won't be able to tweak the Mark V's pre-eq (the knobs) once you have profiled the amp in the Kemper. You will be able to tweak the post-eq (the graphic one) but limited to the Kemper's treble, mid and bass knobs. In other words, the eq knobs will be set in stone in the profile, and the graphic eq will have to be approximated with 3 regular eq knobs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You would just profile every sound you like on the mark V. So you might profile 10 different settings and use those. You cant adjust them the way the original amp works, it is more like a snapshot in time.

 

[Audioholic]

There are quiet a lot of adjustments you can make in the sound afterward. Pretty dramatic actually. Doesn't mean it would be the same as turning the knobs on the actual amp. But the post eq is pretty great and sounds good. Best to capture the amp how you want to hear it. But then again usually once I har set up an amp channel how I like it I rarely change he settings on the real amp either. Minor adjustments in eq. So it's not a super draw back. I posted a clip showing what the different gain and eq knobs do. You would be surprised how much gain you can add or take away.

 

[stratotone]

If I had a room full of amps to profile, why would I want to profile them - I'd just play the damn things! So when people say game-changer, as they do in literally every kemper thread I've read here, I have to roll my eyes.

Some of us DO have a room full of amps to play and I sure as hell can't take them to a gig. Nor would I want to. Would you take a '72 Marshall stack to a club gig? I've beat the hell out of my Bogner 101B taking it to gigs and regret it. At gigs all your gear gets that smoke smell, drunks fall into your stuff, load in/load out take it's toll, etc.

So yeah, I used my Kemper at the gig last night and had Bogner profiles that I did and a rackmount rectifier. Worked perfect. Also didn't have to run microphones and hope I found the sweet spot within the minute or two I had before we soundchecked.

Oh, and even if I didn't gig - a room full of amps is fun, but many are impractical to just crank and go. Take that '72 Marshall for instance - it has to have a hot plate so you can get some gain out of it and not kill people standing nearby. Ditto for my '70 100 watt Marshall and even my '74 fifty watt. I have to reach around the back of each amp, hook up the hotplate, dial it in - each amp doesn't have an effects loop, so I can't really play em stock with any delay or post preamp fx, etc.

...or I can switch the kemper on and hear the same sound/tone instantly and add/take away effects immediately. On MY amp tones.

Pete

 

[Rogue]

Apparently, the internet exploded again, whatever that means.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/48000-tone-matching-preview.html

The tone matching is close, but why in God's name would you tone match such an awful tone? I'm sure the AxeFX guys are excited, but I have to wonder if they even know what good tone is anymore.

 

[Audioholic]

Apparently, the internet exploded again, whatever that means.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/48000-tone-matching-preview.html

The tone matching is close, but why in God's name would you tone match such an awful tone? I'm sure the AxeFX guys are excited, but I have to wonder if they even know what good tone is anymore.

Ha. I am kinda confused, so he matched the sound of another processor? how will that work with a real amp? that is what I think I want to hear not mimicking another processor. and I agree, the base tone isn't the best and sounds kinda processed to begin with. I just listened to a clip of the kemper and it sounds so much more raw and real. Not saying there isn't axe clips like that but I would love to see how the Axe mimicks a Real amp and cab, not just another processor, whats the point of that?
I wonder if he used the kemper to match? if so maybe its his guitar pickups cause they sound kinda flat.. I wonder if his take is, Let the kemper model the real amp, and then the axe will model the kempers version of the real thing? kinda confused on what the end capabilities will be

 

[Rogue]

Ha. I am kinda confused, so he matched the sound of another processor? how will that work with a real amp? that is what I think I want to hear not mimicking another processor. and I agree, the base tone sucks and sounds so processed to begin with. I just listened to a clip of the kemper and it sounds so much more raw and real. Not saying there isn't axe clips like that but I would love to see how the Axe mimicks a Real amp and cab, not just another processor, whats the point of that?

Clearly it's a response to the Kemper, which of course isn't a "game changer".

I am wondering if this is a temporary fix for the AxeFX profiler or if this is Cliff's method of profiling? It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Even more interesting to watch Scott Peterson's response...

The ability to match an isolated guitar track, if it works as it promises to, would completely trump just the ability to profile amps only IMHO. It's the same thing, but the guys attracted to that would essentially be 'profiling' professional recordings all tweaked to perfection instead of just an amp mic'd and 'profiled' by Joe Average User with little experience doing so.

And folks selling profiles will be essentially... not selling too many profiles. (The principle of doing that rubs me the wrong way).

If this gets done correctly, and I assume it will be given the track history and rapid development cycle.... this will be truly another step past profiling just amps. You can then profile amps and isolated guitar tracks... in one box.

Crazy stuff.

No, he's not biased or anything like that.

From what I've heard, the Kemper is the new top dog of digital recreation. I've been impressed with the clips (well, some of them). Time will determine any shortcomings, but man, it sure sounds pretty good.

 

[Audioholic]

Yes Scott Peterson is completely biased. Actually there are many hardcore axe users over on TGP who are so jaded and biased against anything else it is such a turn off. I mean in the kemper clips you can see their less then impressed comments, and I will be like huh, i thought it sounded great. . but then I found out they are Axe FX junkies who have sworn their allegance to their God cliff. haha. its actaully quite annoying. There is a whole different vibe on the kemper forum so far, more balanced I think.

But yeah, for me and my workflow, the kemper is the top dog right now. Good luck trying to get the axe fx to profile a guitar track in a mix with drums and bass etc, if that is what Scott is talking about.

I think the biggest shortcomings is relying on the user to have good micing technique. but there are several profiles that sound killer. Much promise and it will only get better. I just like the kemper, not that the axe isn't amazing either, but I am glad I tried something else.

 

[Rogue]

If nothing else, this will provide weeks of entertainment on digital forums.

 

[Audioholic]

If nothing else, this will provide weeks of entertainment on digital forums.

yeah I am mostly gonna ignore all the axe posts and stuff. its pointless. if you like the axe, thats great. I have been so busy playing and trying new profiles I could care less about the Axe right now. I get how we should get excited about technology improving, but to be honest I can't stand some of the axe people. Zentman etc, they are insane about the axe, like brainwashed. its kinda creepy. I have liked the kemper clips people are posting up lately anyway, by a long shot actually, so for me using my ears was the main factor in trying kemper. I have a feeling it will keep me plenty happy. heck I pretty much stick to like all of 3-4 different sounds. I did with the Axe to.

 

[Rogue]

In a thread about the negatives of the AxeFX, I posted the biggest negative was some of it's users.

I'd like to see a price war, but anything is outside of a justifiable expense for me right now. I am fairly intrigued about the Kemper though. I doubt I'd even care about the profiler, the profiles already are pretty cool and as more people profile killer tones, it'll only get better. Just give me a player unit.

 

[Audioholic]

In a thread about the negatives of the AxeFX, I posted the biggest negative was some of it's users.

I'd like to see a price war, but anything is outside of a justifiable expense for me right now. I am fairly intrigued about the Kemper though. I doubt I'd even care about the profiler, the profiles already are pretty cool and as more people profile killer tones, it'll only get better. Just give me a player unit.

there are new profiles going up everyday, probalby like 10 a day. the cool thing is that they are not like "tweaked" versions of patches, they are fresh new takes on an amp and recording chain, I dig it. .yeah I seriously want to punch a few axe crazy peeps in the face, it actually makes posting about the kemper on TGP less desirable to me, which is why I have pretty much just stayed here and shared my thoughts and clips, not really trying to sell it, but just to show what it can do and of course say I am happy so far! on the kemper forum, there is talk about the axe FX, but it seems much more fair, and without being so crazed about one piece of gear and creator. really great sharing community so far with patches. I hope it stays that way.

I could not even come close to justify the price of jumping the line on the Axe, 2600 or 2700 hundred bucks? no way. even with coupon its more then what I want to spend. The kemper was at the top of my price range and I had to sell stuff to get it, but since I am not relying on fx or stuff to get or polish a patch, just looking for pure raw sound, so far it is a keeper. Great that cliff is going all gungho, the patch he posted of the kemper diezel didn't sound like what I got, so not sure if he eq'd it or what but it sounded flatter and processed. Cool for those who have the Axe II already though, much less reason to jump ship, and cliff is a competitive sucker. I would hate to play against him in sports cause he would probably whine like a little girl if he lost. haha just kidding.

 

[Ventura]

If nothing else, this will provide weeks of entertainment on digital forums.

True dat

When all of us really OUGHT to be playing and jammin' rather than watching yet another drama unfold... Ah, life - gotsta love it. I am curious to know how this is being recevied over at FAS. Has anyone had the cajones (or just the plain brute audacity) to post in the main forum "AXE-II or KEMPER??". I'd like to see how fast THAT gets "moved", ahem.

Hope all my cats out there in RT-Land are chillin' and groovin'...

Mojo

 

[Rogue]

there are new profiles going up everyday, probalby like 10 a day. the cool thing is that they are not like "tweaked" versions of patches, they are fresh new takes on an amp and recording chain, I dig it. .yeah I seriously want to punch a few axe crazy peeps in the face, it actually makes posting about the kemper on TGP less desirable to me, which is why I have pretty much just stayed here and shared my thoughts and clips, not really trying to sell it, but just to show what it can do and of course say I am happy so far! on the kemper forum, there is talk about the axe FX, but it seems much more fair, and without being so crazed about one piece of gear and creator. really great sharing community so far with patches. I hope it stays that way.

I could not even come close to justify the price of jumping the line on the Axe, 2600 or 2700 hundred bucks? no way. even with coupon its more then what I want to spend. The kemper was at the top of my price range and I had to sell stuff to get it, but since I am not relying on fx or stuff to get or polish a patch, just looking for pure raw sound, so far it is a keeper. Great that cliff is going all gungho, the patch he posted of the kemper diezel didn't sound like what I got, so not sure if he eq'd it or what but it sounded flatter and processed. Cool for those who have the Axe II already though, much less reason to jump ship, and cliff is a competitive sucker. I would hate to play against him in sports cause he would probably whine like a little girl if he lost. haha just kidding.

I can't imagine why'd he'd tone match an awful tone. Both the clips sounds like a modeler. A bad one at that. Way better clips of the Kemper, and even the AxeFX than that. I'm kind of surprised no one has said anything about it.

Is that the same profile that you have? How can it be that bad and that good in two recordings? I don't get it.

You can't even get to the Fractal site anymore.

Kudos to Cliff for tone matching a shit tone. It's a victory...I guess.