Kiesel Hyperdrive/Vader vs ESP E-ll Arrow

[AxeFiend]

I'm looking to get a Kiesel Hyperdrive, Vader trem or ESP E-ll Arrow. Anyone have one of these? What are the pros and cons in your opinion? I like the ESP Arrow shape with its EMG 81/85 pick ups and the Kiesel's neck construction, customizing and standard stainless frets.

 

[Holy-diver]

The Vader trem will go out of tune a bit if you go for big dives and squeals because it is not locked

 

[Donnie B.]

Vader trem was my #1 for a couple years.

Great guitars for the dollar. Especially considering made in USA.

 

[AxeFiend]

Interesting. I was under the impression that the headless was locked in a way. I guess it isn't really locked unless there is a locking nut. I def take that into consideration. I think I have to find a used Vader to hold first.

 

[Donnie B.]

Interesting. I was under the impression that the headless was locked in a way. I guess it isn't really locked unless there is a locking nut. I def take that into consideration. I think I have to find a used Vader to hold first.

No, you are right. The strings are locked at the nut just like a Floyd.
Instead of a small metal plate clamping the string it's the set screw itself.

 

[AxeFiend]

Ok. That was my understanding. Instead of a clamp, the strings are locked by the grooves in the nut. I don't see how the Kiesel headless system is inferior to a Floyd, mechanically speaking. If anything, I would think a Floyd's clamping is inferior to the headless Kiesel nut in regards to locking. So in my mind, the Kiesel should stay in tune as good or better than a Floyd. The down side to the Kiesel system seems to be the inability to put more tension on the string and raise the note. I believe it only does about a half or whole step from what I've seen.

 

[AxeFiend]

The Vader trem will go out of tune a bit if you go for big dives and squeals because it is not locked

Do you think the Kiesel headless system is not locked as well as a Floyd? It seems it is the same as the Floyd but reversed. Sting clamped at the bridge where the Floyd is clamped at the nut.

 

[Holy-diver]

In theory yes, but the string run through the nut so if you use tremolo for somewhat heavy dives it still loses some tuning stability. You are also correct in that it doesn’t have as much range as a Floyd, especially not if you want to stay in tune. It’s able to be used pretty well more like a fender trem or Wilkinson with a bit more range and stability, but not on the level of a Floyd

 

[Devin]

The Hipshot headless trem still has a regular nut to contend with and the strings don't lock at the saddles like a Floyd does either, which is the main problem.

I like mine but it doesn't even come close to the stability of a Floyd