Looking for VHT CL vs Deliverance opinions

I had an early D60, UL, CL50, and new D120 series II. D60 was great boosted and had a huge low end punch and overall articulation. UL was cool but the one I had was way too saturated; weird I know but it was. CL50 might have been my favorite; not as big nor the punch of the D60, but the tone was to die for and had a killer gain structure. The D120 series II went back to GC a week after I got it...di not like it at all. WAYYYY to dry/unsaturated, even boosted. And was dark until you cranked up treble and presence and then it just sounded odd.
 
MetalHeadMike said:
The D120 series II went back to GC a week after I got it...di not like it at all. WAYYYY to dry/unsaturated, even boosted. And was dark until you cranked up treble and presence and then it just sounded odd.
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Interesting - I own an early D60 and it is the brightest amp I've ever played. With the presence and treble turned down all the way it is still brighter than most amps, even at the lowest of volumes.

I wonder what changes were made in the series II revisions that would completely alter the brightness.
 
Best way I could put it to describe their differences:

100W Pittbulls punch you in the face/head until you can't take it anymore.

Deliverance 120 punches you in the liver and diaphragm until you're on the ground trying to catch your breath.



As for power amps, I remember reading somewhere from someone who would know (might have been Fryette Support, Steve Fryette, or Stephen Sawall who is a Fryette encyclopedia himself) that these are the basic VHT/Fryette power amps:

Ultra Lead and D120 effectively have the same power amp section. So if you run a GP3 into the return of a D120 (with a loop), then you're effectively playing a Pittbull Ultra Lead with all of the other bells and whistles that the GP3 comes with (midi, independent EQ on each channel, etc).

Sig:X with diode rectification is one side of 2:90:2 power amp.

The 50CL power amp is the same as one side of the 2:50:2 power amp.

The CLX/Classic/100CL power amp is the same as one side of the 2100 power amp.

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Overall advice I'd give is that if you're truly torn between both (and cannot buy both because reality sucks), err towards buying the D120.

It's the amp you haven't tried yet and you'll keep wondering about it until you do. Furthermore, I'm assuming it's a reasonable deal on it... if you don't like it, you should be able to flip it pretty easily.

The 100CL is regularly compared unfavorably to the flagship Pittbulls (CLX or UL), and its used value is usually lower and they are less sought after. The Deliverance series' used value seems to have jumped quite a bit in the past few years or so with no sign of it coming back down.

Additional food for thought: I don't think I've ever seen someone say that the 100CL is the best amp they've ever played... desert island yada yada. I've seen a few people say such things about the D60 and D120.

I still have a Sig:X and a CLX with EQ. I love both amps, and both can approximate what the D120 and D60 used to do, but they can't nail it. I do miss my Deliverance amps but am biased by the deals I got for them at the time. In 2012 I got a second-hand D60 for $600. Then in 2013 or 2014, I got a D120 (with an insert loop installed by Victoria Amps) AND a FB412 straight cab with P50Es for $1000 all in. Seeing their used values jump into the $1500+ range for just the head kind of makes me say "no" just because I know where their values were relatively recently.

There are only 3 amps for which I really have GAS... mainly because they're amps I owned and remember very fondly: Mesa Trem-O-Verb, VHT D60 or 120, and Peavey VTM-60.
 
dainbramage0 said:
Interesting - I own an early D60 and it is the brightest amp I've ever played. With the presence and treble turned down all the way it is still brighter than most amps, even at the lowest of volumes.

I wonder what changes were made in the series II revisions that would completely alter the brightness.
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That doesn't sound right. I don't remember my D60 being overly bright/harsh at all.
 
maddnotez said:
Hmm ok that is different then what most are saying. What did you prefer about the Deliverance and what style of music do you play?
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It's a huge sounding monster of an amp. I bought it to play death metal on, I just play laid back rock now (I'm old) it does both equally well. A drop tuned palm mute is like getting a 2x4 up side the head. To me the UL was basically a really fancy 5150/soldano type sound. The Deliverance is like a Marshall if Ferarri designed it. Its dry and clean but huge and brutal if that makes sense. It cleans up well with the volume knob too.
 
with all the description differences on these amps I'm wondering if the amps are real sensitive to what preamp tubes you are using?
 
I would never describe the D120 as dry now that I've lived with it.. What makes it hard to play if that's how you feel about it is that it's not super compressed. When you play loud, it comes out of the speakers loud, when you play soft, well, you get it.. It's not a narrow squished dynamic range that you make loud with the master volume knob.
It can be big and round or it can be mids in your face, Just dial it in with your ears.
KT88's don't fall apart like EL34's so there's nowhere to hide there..
Any single channel amp will be really responsive to the tubes you use and will help shape the overall color you're going for.
The Master Volume is all or nothing, probably by design. It's not a bedroom amp.
The amp is plenty loud for a heavy handed rock drummer at 9 or 10 O'clock and is super meaty and filled in at volume. Way different than at a cracked volume.
There is no magic amp, only vehicles for your style and abilities.
 
The D amps ARE extremely sensitive to tube swaps. Usually stock tubes sound awesome but please give a vintage RFT A try in the v1 spot and come tell me what you think. Also JJ 6550 power tubes feel great in these heads
 
apophis said:
The D amps ARE extremely sensitive to tube swaps. Usually stock tubes sound awesome but please give a vintage RFT A try in the v1 spot and come tell me what you think. Also JJ 6550 power tubes feel great in these heads
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Yeah I think I actually preferred mine with 6550's; I used the ValveArt 6550s
 
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