A
Anonymous
Guest
mesaboogie6l6":26whg6qs said:
OK, I just know it says Made In Mexico on the box, haven't looked at their whole building process
OK, I just know it says Made In Mexico on the box, haven't looked at their whole building process
RJF
Active member
Business":qjy5itl7 said:
Keep digging, because the hole you're standing in is getting deeper. Do some research and get it figured out, or simply don't. It's up to you.
A
Anonymous
Guest
RJF":2otw6x0w said:Business":2otw6x0w said:
Keep digging, because the hole you're standing in is getting deeper. Do some research and get it figured out, or simply don't. It's up to you.
Research?
Please do post your conspiracy theory right wing protectionist website links
I'll give them a look
J
JB6464
Member
mesaboogie6l6":3q6es9pa said:
Very true , as with most all other products labeled "Made in the U.S.A." now .
Most companies really should just admit it's just designed or assembled in America now.
Burt Reynolds
New member
There's good and bad from any company- but you're going to think the "bad" is great until you get a "good" quality guitar from xyz company. a $600 ibanez hollowbody is probably great- until you compare it to something like an old GB-12, which would blow the china guitar out of the water.
USA certainly isn't end-all be-all either; in terms of real applicable examples, I for one thought the $999 US-made San Dimas Charvels from a couple years ago were absolute garbage. Sorely disappointed in the sub-par build quality and mediocre playability. It was a bad joke. BUT, I'd take an old USA or custom shop Charvel over an ibanez any day of the week. But i'd take an ibanez over one of the garbage USA Charvels, heh.
I used to play ibanez, (2 RG770DX's, RG565, RG550, J.craft RGT220) and I've played the newer cheap Ibanez models, and after owning late 80's early 90's ibanez RG's with *real* wizard necks and original edge trems, I wouldn't even think about buying a cheapo ibanez. My neckthrough RGT didn't even have the same mojo as the old RG's, and that was a $$$ guitar. no comparison. I'd take an RG, jem, or USA custom Ibanez up to '92 over ANY J.craft or prestige guitar from the last 10-15 years. The lo-pro trem they used forever was a POS, the newer Z-trem is cool, if not overly complicated and sustain-robbing (IMHO). the RG770DX reissue from a couple years ago looked great but didn't have a real wizard neck and didn't feel a thing like the original. Made in Japan, not made like they used to be made = not as good = bad. While the recent J.craft stuff is good, it's not that good, and I certainly wouldn't pay $3,000 for one. I wouldn't pay $50 for most of the crap they've made since '92.
The best guitars coming out of Japan these days say "ESP" on the headstock- or "caparison". I have a couple C/S ESP's that you'd have to pry from my cold dead fingers- and I got a chance to play a couple of Mattias Eklundh's Applehorn guitars a couple years ago- while I didn't care much for the neck shape, the build quality was stunning. (And his guitars had true-temperment frets, which is the most unholy awesome thing my ears have experienced)
I've played some seriously abysmal gibson guitars in the sub $1000 dollar range too with jagged frets and what's obviously cheap wood and cheap finishes- Wouldn't buy one of those to save my life- but they were made in the USA, by god! Doesn't mean the quality is there.
Same thing with the newer Marshall amps- I've not been impressed at all with the vietnamese or chinese or wherever they're making those now- they sound like crap! All I can think when I plug into one is "where is the tone my '74 super lead had? or my jcm800?" it's not there. And you wouldn't hear the difference unless you've experienced it (with the channels jumped and everything on 11
)
There's certainly something to be said for 'a good price'- but there's a reason people pay up for old marshalls, old gibsons, old silver-faces, San Dimas era Charvels/Jacksons, golden-age Ibanez guitars, etc. You won't know the difference until you hear it, and you'll be left speechless.
USA certainly isn't end-all be-all either; in terms of real applicable examples, I for one thought the $999 US-made San Dimas Charvels from a couple years ago were absolute garbage. Sorely disappointed in the sub-par build quality and mediocre playability. It was a bad joke. BUT, I'd take an old USA or custom shop Charvel over an ibanez any day of the week. But i'd take an ibanez over one of the garbage USA Charvels, heh.
I used to play ibanez, (2 RG770DX's, RG565, RG550, J.craft RGT220) and I've played the newer cheap Ibanez models, and after owning late 80's early 90's ibanez RG's with *real* wizard necks and original edge trems, I wouldn't even think about buying a cheapo ibanez. My neckthrough RGT didn't even have the same mojo as the old RG's, and that was a $$$ guitar. no comparison. I'd take an RG, jem, or USA custom Ibanez up to '92 over ANY J.craft or prestige guitar from the last 10-15 years. The lo-pro trem they used forever was a POS, the newer Z-trem is cool, if not overly complicated and sustain-robbing (IMHO). the RG770DX reissue from a couple years ago looked great but didn't have a real wizard neck and didn't feel a thing like the original. Made in Japan, not made like they used to be made = not as good = bad. While the recent J.craft stuff is good, it's not that good, and I certainly wouldn't pay $3,000 for one. I wouldn't pay $50 for most of the crap they've made since '92.
The best guitars coming out of Japan these days say "ESP" on the headstock- or "caparison". I have a couple C/S ESP's that you'd have to pry from my cold dead fingers- and I got a chance to play a couple of Mattias Eklundh's Applehorn guitars a couple years ago- while I didn't care much for the neck shape, the build quality was stunning. (And his guitars had true-temperment frets, which is the most unholy awesome thing my ears have experienced)
I've played some seriously abysmal gibson guitars in the sub $1000 dollar range too with jagged frets and what's obviously cheap wood and cheap finishes- Wouldn't buy one of those to save my life- but they were made in the USA, by god! Doesn't mean the quality is there.
Same thing with the newer Marshall amps- I've not been impressed at all with the vietnamese or chinese or wherever they're making those now- they sound like crap! All I can think when I plug into one is "where is the tone my '74 super lead had? or my jcm800?" it's not there. And you wouldn't hear the difference unless you've experienced it (with the channels jumped and everything on 11
) There's certainly something to be said for 'a good price'- but there's a reason people pay up for old marshalls, old gibsons, old silver-faces, San Dimas era Charvels/Jacksons, golden-age Ibanez guitars, etc. You won't know the difference until you hear it, and you'll be left speechless.
D
datriani
New member
At some point, some US companies decided they could save money by moving production overseas. This has been going on for a long time and China is far from being the first but they currently have the largest workforce and we happen to be one of their largest consumers. The majority of the money we spend on what we consume are luxury items compared to their economy which is based on needs not wants.
Quality can be an issue regardless of what country it comes from. If we look at the automotive industry which is highly regulated and monitored as well as being relatively universal, every car manufacturer regardless of origin has had some type of issue at some point and it's usually due to the opportunity to save some money. If the company is willing to pay for higher quality production, they can find a higher quality manufacturer in any country, China, the US, Germany, India.... anywhere. Example, Apple products are made in China and they are pretty reliable. Sure there are people who unfortunately purchase a lemon but for each one of those cases, there are thousands who don't run into issues but you don't hear about that. I threw that in there because there's always 1 guy who got a lemon and go the extreme and say everything from that company/country sucks and will use that to contradict my point.
The real issue with overseas manufacturing and production is that the work environments are not monitored/regulated and slave labor still exist. It's a human rights not product quality issue. We as consumers want something for nothing and some companies are willing to comply by ignoring human rights and finding the cheapest resource.
Ultimately, everyone has to pay for the quality they want. Unrealistic to think you're gonna get a high end quality guitar for $400, expect to pay 10x. I own a Fender Modern Tele MIC (check out the reviews) and it's a ridiculously great guitar for the money. Is it as good as the Suhr and Callaham axes I've owned in the past? Nope but for the $400 I paid, it's well worth the money. I bought the guitar before I realized it's a human rights issue. Would I buy it again? Potentially but I would research to see who and how the company decided on it's manufacturing and production plant.
We can blame the Chinese for inferior products and taking our jobs but it's the American company executives who made the decision they needed bigger bonuses and to accelerate that, it would be cheaper to go overseas. If they're really greedy, they make the decision to ignore human rights in the production plants. It wasn't the employees and middle management decisions to go overseas or to use slave labor. I was a successful business owner and have worked for Fortune 100 companies at the executive level and got a glimpse into the capitalistic motivation that drives companies into making the right or wrong decisions.
China like every country, including the US, is looking to build their own economy through international trade. Can we fault them for that? That would be a bit 1 sided and would miss out on a potentially better standard of living. Are they looking to dominate the US? IMHO, not any more or less than what the US wants. Can we fault them for that? Again, pretty 1 sided. Before you make judgment on my comment, please keep reading.
I am of Asian decent, born overseas but moved here when I was 2 months old. I've had a great life and so many opportunities that wouldn't even be a potential if my parents didn't move here. I love America and what this country stands for, absolutely no doubt about that. The decline of US is based upon the Fortune 500 company executives and our financial markets and their addiction to money. I left the large corporate world because I believe to rebuild the US economy, we need more smaller business and entrepreneurs to spread the wealth among all here domestically, not just the financially elite that are on the Forbes annual list of vultures. As a former business owner, I believed my success was based upon my employees making equal or more money than me and that's what I strived for and accomplished.
If this is important to you as it is to me, you can start by buying from the local mom and pop guitar shops vs. the online and large chains, research the company's manufacturing and production standards, go work for a smaller and/or locally based company, move your money to a local bank. I realize it goes beyond this and that buying locally doesn't mean that it's not produced else where but you have to start somewhere to spark the domestic economy.
Sorry for the long rant but I didn't want to just point out the problem without giving my perspective on a solution with the appropriate details.
Quality can be an issue regardless of what country it comes from. If we look at the automotive industry which is highly regulated and monitored as well as being relatively universal, every car manufacturer regardless of origin has had some type of issue at some point and it's usually due to the opportunity to save some money. If the company is willing to pay for higher quality production, they can find a higher quality manufacturer in any country, China, the US, Germany, India.... anywhere. Example, Apple products are made in China and they are pretty reliable. Sure there are people who unfortunately purchase a lemon but for each one of those cases, there are thousands who don't run into issues but you don't hear about that. I threw that in there because there's always 1 guy who got a lemon and go the extreme and say everything from that company/country sucks and will use that to contradict my point.
The real issue with overseas manufacturing and production is that the work environments are not monitored/regulated and slave labor still exist. It's a human rights not product quality issue. We as consumers want something for nothing and some companies are willing to comply by ignoring human rights and finding the cheapest resource.
Ultimately, everyone has to pay for the quality they want. Unrealistic to think you're gonna get a high end quality guitar for $400, expect to pay 10x. I own a Fender Modern Tele MIC (check out the reviews) and it's a ridiculously great guitar for the money. Is it as good as the Suhr and Callaham axes I've owned in the past? Nope but for the $400 I paid, it's well worth the money. I bought the guitar before I realized it's a human rights issue. Would I buy it again? Potentially but I would research to see who and how the company decided on it's manufacturing and production plant.
We can blame the Chinese for inferior products and taking our jobs but it's the American company executives who made the decision they needed bigger bonuses and to accelerate that, it would be cheaper to go overseas. If they're really greedy, they make the decision to ignore human rights in the production plants. It wasn't the employees and middle management decisions to go overseas or to use slave labor. I was a successful business owner and have worked for Fortune 100 companies at the executive level and got a glimpse into the capitalistic motivation that drives companies into making the right or wrong decisions.
China like every country, including the US, is looking to build their own economy through international trade. Can we fault them for that? That would be a bit 1 sided and would miss out on a potentially better standard of living. Are they looking to dominate the US? IMHO, not any more or less than what the US wants. Can we fault them for that? Again, pretty 1 sided. Before you make judgment on my comment, please keep reading.
I am of Asian decent, born overseas but moved here when I was 2 months old. I've had a great life and so many opportunities that wouldn't even be a potential if my parents didn't move here. I love America and what this country stands for, absolutely no doubt about that. The decline of US is based upon the Fortune 500 company executives and our financial markets and their addiction to money. I left the large corporate world because I believe to rebuild the US economy, we need more smaller business and entrepreneurs to spread the wealth among all here domestically, not just the financially elite that are on the Forbes annual list of vultures. As a former business owner, I believed my success was based upon my employees making equal or more money than me and that's what I strived for and accomplished.
If this is important to you as it is to me, you can start by buying from the local mom and pop guitar shops vs. the online and large chains, research the company's manufacturing and production standards, go work for a smaller and/or locally based company, move your money to a local bank. I realize it goes beyond this and that buying locally doesn't mean that it's not produced else where but you have to start somewhere to spark the domestic economy.
Sorry for the long rant but I didn't want to just point out the problem without giving my perspective on a solution with the appropriate details.
rabies
New member
So nobody else owns a MIC guitar here???
D
Deleted member 21113
Guest
JB6464":1yngfola said:mesaboogie6l6":1yngfola said:
Very true , as with most all other products labeled "Made in the U.S.A." now .
Most companies really should just admit it's just designed or assembled in America now.
Just talked to Electro Voice, they are indeed made in Mexico, by an American owned company! At least they aren't made in China.........
EVM12L speakers -- a legendary EV product offering a level of sonic clarity, full-bandwidth performance, and massive power handling that is unique in the industry -- are designed in the USA and manufactured at our state-of-the-art, company-owned factory in Hermosillo, MX. EVM12L speakers are built and tested to the same exacting standards and global quality guidelines as all EV products manufactured at our other facilities. - Sam, Electro-Voice Team
NaturalBornBoy
Well-known member
I will never buy any guitar or amp or pedal that is made in China. Never
J
JB6464
Member
mesaboogie6l6":18gud0y4 said:JB6464":18gud0y4 said:mesaboogie6l6":18gud0y4 said:
Very true , as with most all other products labeled "Made in the U.S.A." now .
Most companies really should just admit it's just designed or assembled in America now.
Just talked to Electro Voice, they are indeed made in Mexico, by an American owned company! At least they aren't made in China.........
EVM12L speakers -- a legendary EV product offering a level of sonic clarity, full-bandwidth performance, and massive power handling that is unique in the industry -- are designed in the USA and manufactured at our state-of-the-art, company-owned factory in Hermosillo, MX. EVM12L speakers are built and tested to the same exacting standards and global quality guidelines as all EV products manufactured at our other facilities. - Sam, Electro-Voice Team
I just sold two quads of EVM12L classic speakers a couple months ago and i was bombarded with the question , are they made in USA or Mexico . I did'nt even know then that they started making them in Mexico .
Mine were made around 2010 and did'nt have the EV logo stamped on the dust covers either like they do now .
From what i was told somewhere in 2013 they started making them in Mexico , and some have posted that they don't sound exactly the same either , but i don't know how true that is though.
S
Snowblind56
New member
rabies":3e3hjskk said:
I've got an ESP LTD ST-203 that is MIC and it is the best Strat I've ever played. I've had three other lower level LTD Strats & Teles that were made in Vietnam and they are good, but not great. But the China one was every bit as good playing as the 2 MIJ ESP Vintage Plus's that I had, although I think all of them being factory "distressed" mitigates a lot of finish issues. I did also swap the tuners, pickups/electronics, and saddles on it, but I do that with every guitar. That guitar has "it". It's the only Strat (of any maker) that has kept my attention.
rabies
New member
Snowblind56":jijirt6g said:
Yes, I keep playing my AS153 Ibanez as my "go to" guitar for practicing now as it has that tri-tone switch on the neck pup. Great guitar, no major complaints so far. Great deal for $650...
messenger
Well-known member
Where are the internal components in amps and pedals made??
benduncan
New member
JB6464":20tvpewc said:mesaboogie6l6":20tvpewc said:JB6464":20tvpewc said:mesaboogie6l6":20tvpewc said:
Very true , as with most all other products labeled "Made in the U.S.A." now .
Most companies really should just admit it's just designed or assembled in America now.
Just talked to Electro Voice, they are indeed made in Mexico, by an American owned company! At least they aren't made in China.........
EVM12L speakers -- a legendary EV product offering a level of sonic clarity, full-bandwidth performance, and massive power handling that is unique in the industry -- are designed in the USA and manufactured at our state-of-the-art, company-owned factory in Hermosillo, MX. EVM12L speakers are built and tested to the same exacting standards and global quality guidelines as all EV products manufactured at our other facilities. - Sam, Electro-Voice Team
I just sold two quads of EVM12L classic speakers a couple months ago and i was bombarded with the question , are they made in USA or Mexico . I did'nt even know then that they started making them in Mexico .
Mine were made around 2010 and did'nt have the EV logo stamped on the dust covers either like they do now .
From what i was told somewhere in 2013 they started making them in Mexico , and some have posted that they don't sound exactly the same either , but i don't know how true that is though.
Is that some kind of cubist art?
tubortski
Member
My first couple guitars were MIC.
Not everyone can afford USA.
Whatever works for you and your situation. The gear doesn't matter as much as what you can do with it.
Not everyone can afford USA.
Whatever works for you and your situation. The gear doesn't matter as much as what you can do with it.
sytharnia1560
Well-known member
I wish the chinese could teach the internet to only quote the actual comment people are commenting on instead of the whole conversation...drives me nuts because it makes each post 10x as long as it needs to be 
tubortski
Member
sytharnia1560":fgo0ox1t said:
You missed a few.
J
joepete77
New member
Very true.tubortski":ef6nt2nf said:
A good friend of mine fell on hard times financially and now his only guitar is a Chinese epiphone les Paul. Its funny to watch him show up to a gig with the epi and whatever back line amp is there and rip to shreds the guys with super expensive guitars and rigs (myself included) apart with his playing. Gear helps but in the end it's still mostly all the player.
benduncan
New member
sytharnia1560":1w5za5j3 said:I wish the chinese could teach the internet to only quote the actual comment people are commenting on instead of the whole conversation...drives me nuts because it makes each post 10x as long as it needs to be
You just don't understand avant-garde art