Mark IIB+ Coli vs. IIC+ Coli- two of the heaviest amps ever made IN ONE BEDROOM!

GJgo

GJgo

Well-known member
Gents,

So about 10 weeks ago I was lucky enough to buy a factory Mark IIC+ KRG from a forum member to keep my very late serial IIB+ (loop modded) KRG company. It needed some TLC so I sent it in right away for Mike B. to go over it, and just got it back last week. I've spent just enough time playing it for the new caps to start to break in.

FUUUUUUCK. It's good.

First let me give some back story, this is the 6th C+/++ I've had. They have all been amazing, however they've all been sold for one reason or another. Mostly because while some had the best this or best that, in the end my B+ KRG ate them all alive- I love a big power section. So now we have the new beast! It has to kill the B+ KRG, right??

Well, no. ...And, I know of two other guys lucky enough to both have the same two amps and they both agree with me. Depending on your perspective, the B might be the better amp. Sacrilege!!!

I do think the C+ is all that, and, since I've had/sold them I don't drink the cool-aid if that makes sense. These two amps are really pretty different- massive power section aside. To me they are both very much worth having. I thought it'd be good to talk about what I'm experiencing since I've felt for a while that IIBs are really underappreciated.

The C+ KRG has the epic clarity, refinement, bounce & liquid lead in ADDITION to the huge power section. Think of it as a Ferrari. While my SR C+ had the most pissed off attitude, and the DR C+ had the most liquid lead, and the DRG C++ had the best grind, this KRG has just the right balance of all those things AND it sounds fantastic with the GEQ off- which to me is an absolute barometer by which to measure any Mark by. Out of the 20 or so Marks I've had, only 4 of them have sounded legitimately good w/o GEQ and they were the best. Also I never really bonded with any of the others in my band mix because of the "weak" power sections. Still, the C+ is possibly the best solo guitarist tone ever.

The B+ KRG wants to RIP YOUR FACE OFF. It's more aggressive. Brutal even. The bottom end is bigger & tighter. I'm pretty sure the amp is louder. Think of it as a Lamborghini. It has all the bounce & tone, however it doesn't have the C+ clarity. To be clear it's not "blankety" like a III etc.- it's just compressed in a different way. Honestly it's tonally a lot more like a vintage-sounding Mark IV. I actually did a vid comparo of that recently. Personally I like how my B+ & IV sit in my band mix better than the C+. My band actually played a gig a few weeks ago with the B+ and had a LOT of guys after the show compliment my tone.

As a side note, my Triple Recto Rev F is more like a GTO. It's a big piece of pissed off muscle that wants to run you the fuck over!!!! Not much finesse there.

So what do you guys think? What do you want to know? I'll probably do a video at some point.
 
I've had 3 2B Coliseums and the last one is now a C+ Coli. I will say that the very first one was super vintage sounding but it was just an untamed beast, no limiter and was super hard to control. But might have had the most 'balls' out of all 3. The next one I had Mike B+ it, there's no amp made that had as much gain as that thing. That one had 'slightly' less balls but still a monster no doubt. Now my C+ Coli, was a B until Mike swapped pre boards for me, and as a B with a very late serial number (34% which means it SHOULD have been a C) and it was a very different beast than my previous 2 2Bs...this was more like a Mark III in that it was modern sounding and TIGHT as a frog's ass with no boost needed. Plus, it had a C Coli feature in the Limiter which trust me, is HUGE when trying to play these beasts at home. Haha. Point is all these amps, no matter what year or serial when they started to near the end of that specific model they went through some changes. I do know that the 2B power section is just a little bigger sounding than the 2C/C+ with slightly different filtering. So a 2B will have some more muscle than a 2C/C+ Coli. Not that anyone needs more than ANY Coliseum haha.
For me though, what I value MOST in any rig is CLARITY. The C+ in ANY iteration had the best clarity of any Mark period. So no matter what Mark anyone wants to tout as their favorite, for me after owning a bunch (IIs, IIIs, played a IV) I know none can measure up to the C+ in that regard.
I would love to play yours Jeremy, you may have the exception when it comes to the C+ vs everything else in the clarity dept.
 
Exo-metal said:
Well I'm not convinced all C+/++ Coliseum are all created equal but I'm certain few clips might help us decide.
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This is very true for all MkII. For example, my C+ HRG & C+ DR both had fairly low gain. The DRG and the HR were in the sweet spot, and the SR was heavy & pissed off on the gain. This KRG is without question the hottest of them all in terms of gain, while being smoother than the SR.

When people get all caught up in the components my advice is look as the amp as a sum of the parts- some of them just have "it". For example, the HR had the PT100 and I swapped in a PT105 because I thought I wanted the extra 50V. They were both really good, and, the 100 was tonally a little better IN THAT AMP.

I'll get to some clips. :)
 
IME, any model or iteration can have really good examples, and then some that are truly great. The specs of the build are a good starting point, but, since they’re all handmade and with the number of components (and their tolerances), you find some that just standout from others. Sum of the parts, as Jeremy stated, which result in the “it” factor.

My IIB KRG is a late serial (transitional C) w/ limit, too. I would say it’s my #1 in terms of ultimate versatility: Great cleans and rip your heart out gain and ballz. I had a C+/++ KRG as well, which in its own right was a fantastic amp with more slipperiness under the fingers and being a bit more refined. I found myself turning to the IIB more, so, the C+/++ went on to a good friend.

A bit of geeky info about the two:

IIB pushes 520PV vs 509PV on C+/++
Power rating, passing a 1kHz signal into 8 Ohms: IIB rated @153W. C+/++ rated @ 120W

Thankful that I’ve had the chance to have a number of Marks pass through my hands and to be able to experience all their nuances.
 
IIBornotIIB said:
IME, any model or iteration can have really good examples, and then some that are truly great. The specs of the build are a good starting point, but, since they’re all handmade and with the number of components (and their tolerances), you find some that just standout from others. Sum of the parts, as Jeremy stated, which result in the “it” factor.

My IIB KRG is a late serial (transitional C) w/ limit, too. I would say it’s my #1 in terms of ultimate versatility: Great cleans and rip your heart out gain and ballz. I had a C+/++ KRG as well, which in its own right was a fantastic amp with more slipperiness under the fingers and being a bit more refined. I found myself turning to the IIB more, so, the C+/++ went on to a good friend.

A bit of geeky info about the two:

IIB pushes 520PV vs 509PV on C+/++
Power rating, passing a 1kHz signal into 8 Ohms: IIB rated @153W. C+/++ rated @ 120W

Thankful that I’ve had the chance to have a number of Marks pass through my hands and to be able to experience all their nuances.
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You are the 2nd person to confirm the C/C+ Coli puts out 'less' wattage than a 2B power section. So, IME a 2B converted to a C+ is the best of both worlds; if you are a C+ fan. :giggle:
 
Racerxrated said:
You are the 2nd person to confirm the C/C+ Coli puts out 'less' wattage than a 2B power section. So, IME a 2B converted to a C+ is the best of both worlds; if you are a C+ fan. :giggle:
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Ahhhh, now why did you have to mention that? I had pushed that thought out of my head a while ago, now it’s back. Hmmm… :LOL:
 
Is this the only picture we get? :mad:

boog.jpg
 
I have zero experience with Mesa amps. Can someone tell me, are they always synonymous with a scooped mid sound? Like early Metallica sound? Is that what they do best or are they capable of other sounds? Fwiw, I'm not a scooped mids kinda guy, but I just want to know what the fuss is all about.
 
Metalhex they are capable of all sounds you can get with "American" voiced amps. IMO they fall a little short of "British" tones, despite their best efforts. The Mark lineage for example is a hot rodded Fender circuit. Marks are extremely versatile within that realm.

Here are some pics. :)
 

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GJgo said:
Metalhex they are capable of all sounds you can get with "American" voiced amps. IMO they fall a little short of "British" tones, despite their best efforts. The Mark lineage for example is a hot rodded Fender circuit. Marks are extremely versatile within that realm.

Here are some pics. :)
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Thanks to be honest the only amps I really have experience with are Peaveys and H&K, and a Fender practice amp I had a long time ago. But I have no experience with other big brand big glass amps. I don't know anything about American vs. British sounds. I also don't know anything about circuits. But thanks for your reply at least I learned something new!
 
Metalhex said:
I have zero experience with Mesa amps. Can someone tell me, are they always synonymous with a scooped mid sound? Like early Metallica sound?
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Funny. Initially people heard Metallica, then saw Rectifiers on stages everywhere and figured that was MESA BOOGIE.
The Mark Series and Dual Rectifiers are very different from each other but neither is a 'British' sound.

This is the best quote regarding Boogie/Marshall tones I've read.

The Achilles’ heel of the Mark Series – and indeed many MESA/Boogies in general – has always been their mid-gain performance. It’s not the Mark IIC+ circuit isn’t capable of medium gain – it certainly is; with character, dynamics and harmonic complexity to spare. No: the issue with the Mark Series’ mid gain performance isn’t a lack of ability.
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The problem appears on more classic rock, hard rock, indie, pop and blues records than could ever be counted, and it comes with a gold front panel and a curly white logo. Our ears are simply so tuned in to the gritty, sinewy way a Marshall responds at mid-gain that it can be difficult to accept any alternative. The simple fact is that if you require this sound, you need to buy a Marshall or one of the impossibly numerous clones.
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@GJgo Thanks! :love:
 
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Is your c+ coli simul? If so, I think that could partly account for it sounding not as big as the other one. IME the non-simul ones have always sounded bigger and ballsier to me with more growl, openness and rawness, while the simul’s sounded to me smoother, more compressed, tighter and faster responding. Both great of course, but I always liked the non-simul’s more

My no stripe iii++ coli has been the biggest sounding coli or any Boogie amp I’ve tried so far by a good margin (maybe the Coliseum B’s/B+’s would sound even bigger?). It’s much bigger sounding than the other iii++ coli’s I’ve had or tried (the others were all simul class), but if we’re talking just bigness/horsepower/room-filling ability, my old Hiwatt at volume, Blueface VH4 or ‘89 SLO beats it hands down in that regard, but as a whole that coli and my iic+ hrg would still rank higher as more preferred amps for my taste. One of those 2 will probably always be in my top 3 favorites. Size/horsepower isn’t always everything imo
 
[ Donnie B. ] said:
Never owned a coli but have read this exact same thing a number of times.
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I’ve noticed this on any version Mark’s I’ve tried, be it the coli’s, regular Mark iii’s, iic+’s. I don’t like simul-class as much. Although they’re a little tighter and faster, I much prefer the extra growl, balls and openness of non-simul. I bet if it weren’t for Metallica being associated with the simul versions, they’d be viewed differently. I’ve not tried a 60 watt iic+, but sounds like they’d also be up my alley based on the descriptions
 
braintheory said:
Is your c+ coli simul? If so, I think that could partly account for it sounding not as big as the other one. IME the non-simul ones have always sounded bigger and ballsier to me with more growl, openness and rawness, while the simul’s sounded to me smoother, more compressed, tighter and faster responding. Both great of course, but I always liked the non-simul’s more

My no stripe iii++ coli has been the biggest sounding coli or any Boogie amp I’ve tried so far by a good margin (maybe the Coliseum B’s/B+’s would sound even bigger?). It’s much bigger sounding than the other iii++ coli’s I’ve had or tried (the others were all simul class), but if we’re talking just bigness/horsepower/room-filling ability, my old Hiwatt at volume, Blueface VH4 or ‘89 SLO beats it hands down in that regard, but as a whole that coli and my iic+ hrg would still rank higher as more preferred amps for my taste. One of those 2 will probably always be in my top 3 favorites. Size/horsepower isn’t always everything imo
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When I had 2 Mark 3s at the same time, purple and a red stripe, both were SC and I much preferred them with all 6L6s. My C+ Coli is only 6L6.
 
Racerxrated said:
When I had 2 Mark 3s at the same time, purple and a red stripe, both were SC and I much preferred them with all 6L6s. My C+ Coli is only 6L6.
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Interesting, I should’ve tried all 6L6’s in the simul boogies I’ve had. Didn’t know that could be done in them. On paper mixing 6L6’s and EL34’s sounds really cool, but I guess in reality is not what I was expecting. So it’s ok to just pop in all 6L6’s in them? I don’t need to mod and or adjust anything to do that?
 
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