Marshall 100 & 50 Watt 2203/2204 Differences?

[LesPaul1967]

I've been trying to figure this out for years and years...

Supposedly the 2203 and 2204 Master Volume amps have the same preamp section. I'm curious to why they sound so different from one another, in every case(in my experience, anyway) it seems the 50 is tighter and more aggressive, and the 100's are more bloated in the low end, less lively, with seemingly less gain and grind. All of them sound unique amp to amp, but every single stock 50 and 100 watt, head to head has this same result, even at low volumes. Maybe the Drake vs. Dagnall thing? Curious if anyone could explain this?

 

[japetus]

Because you aren't pushing the 2203 power section as hard as you are the 2203. With that said, I don't see a big difference in their tones at all.

 

[LesPaul1967]

Because you aren't pushing the 2203 power section as hard as you are the 2203. With that said, I don't see a big difference in their tones at all.

With all due respect, I doubt that's it...something is very different between them.

 

[japetus]

Because you aren't pushing the 2203 power section as hard as you are the 2203. With that said, I don't see a big difference in their tones at all.

With all due respect, I doubt that's it...something is very different between them.

I meant "aren't pushing the power section of 2203 as hard as 2204". Seriously though, there is little to no difference.

 

[LesPaul1967]

Because you aren't pushing the 2203 power section as hard as you are the 2203. With that said, I don't see a big difference in their tones at all.

With all due respect, I doubt that's it...something is very different between them.

I meant "aren't pushing the power section of 2203 as hard as 2204". Seriously though, there is little to no difference.

That's a given, but even the power section in these amps will stay somewhat clean until a point, maybe it's the lower plate voltage in the 50?

 

[charveldan]

100 watt has more headroom and a bigger punch than a 50 watt.

 

[LesPaul1967]

100 watt has more headroom and a bigger punch than a 50 watt.

That's for sure, but there's gotta be something different in the circuit other than the wattage difference.

 

[steve_k]

Think of it this way - in terms of loudness and output, you won't see enough noticeable difference between the two models at volumes you can stand to be in the same room with. For a given gain setting and master setting side by side (I have done it before), you can compare the two. The difference in tone comes from the preamp output to the power tubes being equally spread across two tubes as opposed to four tubes. The saturation of two tubes at the same power input level is going to sound different once a certain level is reach than that of four tubes. The same PV is being supplied across all power tubes and each tube passing the biased current and each tube contributing a given wattage of output. With that output, comes harmonic distortion at various levels which is a function of the selected tube and its characteristics.

Also keep in mind that back in the early years, Marshall used whatever components they could get. Take any like year JMP 2203 and 2204 which will have an identical preamp circuit, you might find totally different branded caps, but the circuit is the same. This will alter the tone somewhat as will tube selection.

PV is the same though. Output from the transformer is a function of resistance and windings from input to output at a selected voltage. Power in terms of watts is a function of voltage supply and tube current.

Steve

 

[Jay Strange]

Think of it this way - in terms of loudness and output, you won't see enough noticeable difference between the two models at volumes you can stand to be in the same room with. For a given gain setting and master setting side by side (I have done it before), you can compare the two. The difference in tone comes from the preamp output to the power tubes being equally spread across two tubes as opposed to four tubes. The saturation of two tubes at the same power input level is going to sound different once a certain level is reach than that of four tubes. The same PV is being supplied across all power tubes and each tube passing the biased current and each tube contributing a given wattage of output. With that output, comes harmonic distortion at various levels which is a function of the selected tube and its characteristics.

Also keep in mind that back in the early years, Marshall used whatever components they could get. Take any like year JMP 2203 and 2204 which will have an identical preamp circuit, you might find totally different branded caps, but the circuit is the same. This will alter the tone somewhat as will tube selection.

PV is the same though. Output from the transformer is a function of resistance and windings from input to output at a selected voltage. Power in terms of watts is a function of voltage supply and tube current.

Steve

DAMN!! Busted out the knowledge
Good stuff!

 

[NewWorldMan]

Doug West from Mesa said that he thinks 50W EL34 powered amps versus their 100W counterparts are a little tighter, and the harmonics fly through a little quicker, etc.