Marshall 2061x head lost volume - Help Troubleshoot

[stratotone]

I'd always heard that an attenuator isn't going to hurt the amp any more than cranking it will, so if cranking the amp to 10 is ok then so is attenuator use.

Fuck it, I'll have firsthand knowledge soon, bought a hotplate for some of my amps (plexi clone, my trainwreck clones and marshall 18 watt head especially). It will be here tomorrow

Pete

 

[Anonymous]

I'd always heard that an attenuator isn't going to hurt the amp any more than cranking it will, so if cranking the amp to 10 is ok then so is attenuator use.

Fuck it, I'll have firsthand knowledge soon, bought a hotplate for some of my amps (plexi clone, my trainwreck clones and marshall 18 watt head especially). It will be here tomorrow

Pete

I've never had any problems with the HotPlate. I played my PeaceMaker for years cranked to 10 into that thing just about every day for years with not a hint of an issue. You'll be fine...

Steve

 

[JTyson]

A UA is a fixed 30 ohm load? They could have made it anything, why that?

 

[JerryP]

We need Ed D in here to give us the straight dope on attenuators. Where are ya, Ed?

I don't think he's gonna touch this discussion with a ten foot pole at this point!

Don't worry big guy! I'm carrying the attenuator torch!

Steve

You gonna pay for the repairs too? Attenuator torch is a fitting name.
Here's a nice thread about the UA. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=579415&page=5 Check out what Aiken has to say on this page.
Feel free to crank the amps to 10. There's an tech somewhere that will thank you.
Jerry

 

[Darden]

not for nothing but I have run Marshall heads wide open for years

Ah, but did you crank them into a 30-ohm fixed resistive load?

The UA is a different beast, and should not be used to sully attenuators in general (since it isn't an attenuator at all).

 

[stephen sawall]

Some amps just take to being cranked better than others. Regardless of the load. A few are designed to be run full out.
.... as far as tubes, amps, cars, light bulbs, women, etc .... some are just going to screw up faster than others. They are all going to have problems sooner or later.

I hope your problem with your amp is simple.

 

[JTyson]

not for nothing but I have run Marshall heads wide open for years

Ah, but did you crank them into a 30-ohm fixed resistive load?

The UA is a different beast, and should not be used to sully attenuators in general (since it isn't an attenuator at all).

 

[stephen sawall]

The UA is a load / re - amp devise is what I think is what is being referenced here.

 

[redrol]

It is not a real attenuator, it is a load/re-amp device. All the amp sees is the load of the UA, a portion of the signal is taken off of it and sent to a solid state amp and re-amped back up to whatever volume you want. Turning it down will only effect how much power the ss amp puts out, it does nothing to the load that the amp sees, which is at full load at all times. Whether the volume of the UA is at full blast or full silence, the load on the amp is the same.

Whoa, that is totally news to me. Puts that into perspective.

 

[stratotone]

We need Ed D in here to give us the straight dope on attenuators. Where are ya, Ed?

I don't think he's gonna touch this discussion with a ten foot pole at this point!

Don't worry big guy! I'm carrying the attenuator torch!

Steve

You gonna pay for the repairs too? Attenuator torch is a fitting name.
Here's a nice thread about the UA. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=579415&page=5 Check out what Aiken has to say on this page.
Feel free to crank the amps to 10. There's an tech somewhere that will thank you.
Jerry

Jerry, just to be sure I'm reading this right - you're not just saying the ultimate attenuator is bad, but *any* attenuator, including hot plates are bad if you crank an amp into them? From reading the other thread, I can see how the Ultimate may be since it's basically a load box taking 100% of the signal all the time no matter what the volume, but a hot plate for example doesn't take all the signal all the time unless you run it set to load and with the volume off. If this was a prevalent problem, I would think THD would have gone out of business years ago.

Pete

 

[Loudness250]

I think the deal is that to crank the amp to 10 is not a good idea but if you go up to 2 o'clock or so it's more practical and probably wont do the damage that it would that diming the amp can do. Just run it at 5 or 6 but not 10. That's what I used to do with my hotplate and it never broke my amp it just ate tubes a little faster.

 

[Anonymous]

We need Ed D in here to give us the straight dope on attenuators. Where are ya, Ed?

I don't think he's gonna touch this discussion with a ten foot pole at this point!

Don't worry big guy! I'm carrying the attenuator torch!

Steve

You gonna pay for the repairs too? Attenuator torch is a fitting name.
Here's a nice thread about the UA. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=579415&page=5 Check out what Aiken has to say on this page.
Feel free to crank the amps to 10. There's an tech somewhere that will thank you.
Jerry

He's getting a HotPlate, not a UA.

Steve

 

[King Guitar]

Too bad I bought the UA as I was under the impression it was the best attenuator on the market guess I chose poorly. My amp is at the tech and I am hoping the brand new Mecury Transformer I put in the amp a few months ago is not smoked but if it is oh well. Guess I should of bought a hot plate.

 

[Mudder]

I've used a Weber mini-mass for a while now, on several different amps, with no ill effects. Maybe I just got lucky, or maybe Weber's speaker motor design helps answer some of the problems resistive attenuators may have.

FWIW I'm a huge fan of Weber, both speakers and attenuators. I had a Dr Z Rt66 that was area style loud, NMV too, so a dialed back attenuator was the only way to get some dirt on board without using pedals.

 

[Dallas Marlow]

I've got a Hotplate but I no longer use it at all, it just sucks to much tone and feel outta my Heritage, I did use it on a DSL50 for quite a while and a Peavey JSX for quite sometime as well, the DSL always had issues but I don't believe they were related to the hotplate, the JSX was pretty solid wore down tubes a lot faster though that's for sure. I guess my tastes have changed or my feel and ears have or something, but I just don't like what they do to the sound of the amp I have now, it's like it chokes it off, i'll tell you though adding a pre-PI MV was the best thing that ever happened to my Heritage!

Really interesting about the UA I'd heard that was like the best thing, and they are so so sooo expensive compared to others!

Whatever the case hope your amp gets fixed and up and running quick man!

Best of luck,

Dallas

 

[JerryP]

Jerry, just to be sure I'm reading this right - you're not just saying the ultimate attenuator is bad, but *any* attenuator, including hot plates are bad if you crank an amp into them? From reading the other thread, I can see how the Ultimate may be since it's basically a load box taking 100% of the signal all the time no matter what the volume, but a hot plate for example doesn't take all the signal all the time unless you run it set to load and with the volume off. If this was a prevalent problem, I would think THD would have gone out of business years ago.

Pete

The Hotplate is a great product, when used the right way. If you look at attenuators in general you will see a long line of broken amps behind them. It's not always the attenuator that caused the damage, but the amp being pushed beyond its limits. Some attenuators are worse than others. What is your amps limit? Who knows. It's really nothing I or anyone else can claim to know. Kind of like my speeding down the road analogy, just because I got away with doesn't mean you will or I will the next time I try. Every amp is different and every situation is different, the constant is that ANYTHING in this world pushed to its limit will fail quicker than something not worked as hard. I don't care if you're talking about amps, cars, or your dick, work it too hard and eventually you will have problems. How the amp is played has a big part, distortion at high levels is worse than a clean tone at high levels as I said above and Aiken says in his GP post. A square wave into a saturated output transformer is bad, period end. How you push something will play a part in what amps fail and what amps don't. Big difference in driving your car full bore down a hill or full bore up a hill. Up the hill works it much harder.
I can't say when or what amps will fail, I can say that after years of experience fixing broken amps, attenuators increase the failure rate tremendously when used wrong. IMO the right way to use them is to lower the volume, not to overwork the amp.
Everyone is free to believe what they want. I don't make money selling attenuators, I make money fixing amps. If I was smart I would tell everyone to buy an attenuator and crank up the amps so I could load my pockets!!!
Jerry

 

[glip22]

Did you find out what was actually wrong with the amp?

 

[JerryP]

You gonna pay for the repairs too? Attenuator torch is a fitting name.
Here's a nice thread about the UA. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=579415&page=5 Check out what Aiken has to say on this page.
Feel free to crank the amps to 10. There's an tech somewhere that will thank you.
Jerry

He's getting a HotPlate, not a UA.

Steve

So you're not willing to pay for the repairs? Real easy to carry the torch when it's not your money on the line.
Jerry

 

[JerryP]

Did you find out what was actually wrong with the amp?

Watch it be a tube.
Jerry

 

[DumbleTone]