Marshall amps has to be the most F'd up amp company

[p4vl]

And in the late 80's and 90's I gaurantee Marshall sold way more amps than Mesa. My god, just look how many 900's are out there.

Because people sold them for better amps. I remember people in the 90's (people I'd ask at music stores) saying how much they hated the 900's and DSL's and that the 800's, bare bones as they were, were far superior to anything Marshall had produced since. The only 900 model that I've heard receive any praise is the SL-X and I've only heard one guy get a stupefying tone with a 4100 (Trey from Morbid Angel). Ok, I'll grant you that Marshall sold more amps in the late 80's, but Marshall lost a lot of ground in the 90's.

I really hate to use popular radio as an example, but even fruity lightweight pop bands of the 90's were using recto's (Foo Fighters, Matchbox 20). It goes without saying that metal bands were using Recto's (very badly, but they used them) and 5150's and OLD Marshalls.

I've actually always preferred amps with that 'british sound' (I've got JJ E34L's in my XXX right now, because bands that used Marshall taught me that mids are great).

Hell, When Ola did the comparison of they 8 high gainers ,the JVM js came to the top only behind the Deizel, IMO. They are making some killer sounding amps.

That's fine, I don't wish them ill or anything. If I had the means to crank it up, I might look into a JVM. Problem would be that I'd have to have a couple of different speaker cabs (one with Greenbacks for the rock and lead stuff, one for heavier stuff).

 

[C1-ocaster]

C-1 you are wrong about 2203KK...
I hate Kerry king...I hate his tone...his guitars...his tatoos...his hair(sic)...his beard...
But that amp is AMAZING...
The EQ curve is not that "slayery"...not a metal monster at all !!!
After slayer don't use a lot of gain...
I have used this amp a lot playing in a hard rock cover band without ANY mods at all...(just a bit of biasing)
Charvel star-2203KK-1960AX...
My playing style is very 80's...van halen,Michael Schenker my favorits...
When I went to my amp tech to built me a custom handmade amp I took this head with me...
For me it's the best mashall since the late 80's...
If it wasn't a KK signature I think it would sell even MORE...
So bad advertising is the problem for Marshall...
Less signature,more current production models would be better...

Yes, what you wrote at the end there is what I'm getting at.

The sound of that amp doesn't suck, it just lacks tonal shaping ability that I'd want.
My rant is really against all the "signature" BS. It's got way out of hand.

I think most guitar players want to be able to dial in what THEY want, not some preset eq curve "based" on some other guitar players outboard gear settings.

As for a custom made amp that you or anyone wants made to order, of course you're going to want a certain sound, because that's what YOU like and want. Nothing wrong with it at an individual level.

I think we're speaking the same language. I believe that you like that amp because it's closer to what you are looking for, and that's cool cause we all have our own idea's about what is "great" tone.
Marshall doesn't do it for me, at least not most of their stock ones. Their is a standard characteristic base tone that Marshall's have, and players use it as their base, and then season to taste.
For me, I prefer a different base to build on.

BTW, if you liked that amp so much, why not just use that amp?
If you're having a custom amp made based on that amp, then what did you want to change and/or have added?
Couldn't the tech mod that amp to give you what you're really looking for?
If it's been done, did it work out as you wanted?
Got clips?

 

[C1-ocaster]

I think Marshall is working to compete on a number of fronts. The new DSL line is trying to compete with blackstar. They are also trying to compete with with the modded marshall companies, and trying to compete with Mesa, EVH, etc. They are fighting on a number of fronts, whether they are winning is the question, but they are putting up a fight.

It's quite likely that Marshall is still doing very well.
But there is no doubt that boutique and larger manufacturers that have come up are cutting into Marshall's over all sales.
At one time there wasn't much variety of quality amps and it was mostly Fender, Marshall, or Peavey, with Peavey building more for the masses at lower price points.

If the newer high end companies didn't exist, then Marshall would sell more product as those other choices wouldn't be around.
When companies like Marshall get big and their prices get ridiculously high, that makes room for other companies to come in a fill a market gap. BlackStar is such a company as they build amps at the lower price points.
So what does a big company do when their core products are priced so high that the larger market wants good amps but can't afford those prices? The company seeks to move into different market price points. Marshall did that.
As the higher end boutique companies take some sales away from Marshall, Marshall then needed to add product to increase sales at the lower end.

It's interesting how newer and smaller companies move up to the higher price market, while a big company like Marshall had no place to go except 'down' market.
But it worked. Their brand cache makes their less than stellar low end sell. People want that M logo and they can have it at a lower price point. Even if their lower end is not as good as the lower end established players, like Peavey, their products still sell because they have the MARSHALL logo. And that logo is synonymous with ROCK n ROLL baby!

 

[C1-ocaster]

Opinions are opinions.

Yeah, but yours is wrong

 

[C1-ocaster]

I don't know.....I have a JVM Satch model and it is just so much more useable to me than any amp I've had before. 4 great sounding channels. Great and functional noisegate! Records beautifully with my Torpedo Live and most of all sounds amazing at any level either at home practicing or playing live. I'm in the middle of completing a commercial project with it and it sounds perfect!

I really like the Peavey JSX that Satch worked with Peavey to create.
The main reason I'm looking for one is because of it's great ability to dial in different tones.
I'm sure the Satch model has a base Marshall tone.
If you've played a JSX, can you comment on the JVM Satch's tone shaping?
Does it give you more control to dial in different tones than a standard Marshall?

Judging from the JSX it seems that that is what JS brought to peavey.
Marshall even added a noise gate just like the JSX has.
However I didn't really find the noise gate to be that great on the JSX.
But then I only played it for about 1.5 hours and was concentrating more on all the settings and 3 channels or SWEET tone.

 

[TrueTone500]

My favorite setup (since '78) is still a NMV Marshall Super Lead 100 and VOX AC30 A/B'd with a battery of pedals.

 

[blackie13]

BTW, if you liked that amp so much, why not just use that amp?
If you're having a custom amp made based on that amp, then what did you want to change and/or have added?
Couldn't the tech mod that amp to give you what you're really looking for?
If it's been done, did it work out as you wanted?
Got clips?

My tech made me something smaller in watts and size...
Handwired and with lifetime warranty...
I also had a chance to test many voicings and use NOS parts...
And the most important part was the prize...about the same as the 2203KK new...
Very very affordable for a custom HW head...
no clips for now...
check out my techs work:
http://kourbisamps.com/content/pk-800-plus-head

 

[jabps]

I thought the Reissues, like the JVMs and DSL/TSLs suffered from some build quality issues. Inconsistent pots, funky pots, microphonic tubes, rattles and hums. Maybe it is just me. I'm really struggling I guess. Tone was not there either. Guess I need to find YJM or something. Give me an old JTM or 2203 anyday. Overall, I really want Marshall to succeed.

See, here is where it just gets tough for me to criticize things that are so subjective...truly, imo people here things differently. I've owned a crap ton of stuff that either worked or didn't, they price tag a build quality always has take a back seat for. From experience I can say the same thing about Scotts amps as you just said about Marshall. And it's funny because had it not been for Splawn I would have never made it back around to Marshall amps. Hands down one of the best sounding rigs I ever owned started with a Splawn QR...that amp was the shit. Easily one of the best amps I've owned. Sadly I lost that amp in a fire that claimed a lot of bands gear at a rehearsal facility that burned to the ground. So...I took the insurance money and bough the EXACT same amp...even down to the look. And it didn't sound near as good as the QR it replaced. Now I know Scott makes great stuff...I've owned a lot of it but that's a good example of where the consistency was hit or miss in my experience. I traded that Splawn for a JVM and still own it...years later.

 

[racerevlon]

About to spend my two cents...

I have and have had a lot of amps. Fundamentally, I like what is referred to as the "hot-rodded Marshall" sound as my mainstay, but enjoy other tones as well. So, if we focus on that genre (leaving Mesa, Peavey, Diezel, etc. out of the picture) here is how history went and how I ended up where I am.

First two tube Marshalls I ever owned I bought back-to-back:

DSL401 1x12
TSL602 2x12

The TSL602 was probably in the top five worst amps I've ever heard. Couldn't sell it fast enough.
Still have the DSL401. Everyone says they have problems, so I must have a good one, because I love the way mine sounds, especially using an extension cab.

Then purchased:

Marshall JVM (One of the first run, 2006-ish). Just OK. Agree with those of the position that OD1 orange is the highest usable gain on the amp.
Marshall Vintage Modern 2266 Full Stack. Competes for my "Best-sounding Marshall."
DSL100MLB Full Stack. Pretty good. About the same as the JVM without the complexity.
Splawn QuickRod. Immediately sold the JVM and the DSL100.
Class 5 combo--just for fun. Sounds good.
1974X hand-wired 1x12. Non-tremolo channel, Dimed, competes for my "Best-sounding Marshall." Seriously. Put a TS or SD-1 in front of it and it usually wins.
Marshall HAZE 40C. Fun purchase--wasn't expecting much and was pleasantly surprised. Sounds good. I think this amp got a bad rap because people were expecting high gain, not classic gain. Again, nothing a TS or SD-1 can't fix.

So, the Marshalls that made the final cut are:

Vintage Modern 2266
1974X HW
DSL401

(The others are for sale, if anyone's interested.)

Any "hot-rodded Marshall" tone I want now is easily achieved through Splawn, Hughes & Kettner, and the latest surprise is my Jet City JCA50H Custom EL34. Destroys any JVM tone I've ever heard.

For $2400, I would expect much more from Marshall. I will take a QuickRod over a Marshall every day of the week. I liken this to sport bikes. Novice riders ride Honda and Kawasaki because they're more "forgiving" than Suzuki and Yamaha. A Splawn amp WILL punctuate every flaw in your playing.

Channels 2A, 2B, and 3A on my TriAmp MK II sound better to me than any contemporary Marshall. Given the choice between a Hughes & Kettner Trilogy and a JVM, I'll take the Trilogy every time (and have).

Now that Jet City is offering custom builds and you can get EL34s, 6L6s, or KT88s with a choke and/or depth mod I can't see why anyone would buy one of the new DSLs other than for the logo. Blackstar does nothing to excite me.

Bottom line, I no longer count on a Marshall amp for my "Marshall" sounds. If I were running Marshall, that statement would have me worried...

 

[C1-ocaster]

BTW, if you liked that amp so much, why not just use that amp?
If you're having a custom amp made based on that amp, then what did you want to change and/or have added?
Couldn't the tech mod that amp to give you what you're really looking for?
If it's been done, did it work out as you wanted?
Got clips?

My tech made me something smaller in watts and size...
Handwired and with lifetime warranty...
I also had a chance to test many voicings and use NOS parts...
And the most important part was the prize...about the same as the 2203KK new...
Very very affordable for a custom HW head...
no clips for now...
check out my techs work:
http://kourbisamps.com/content/pk-800-plus-head

Nicely done innards!
Simplicity has it's rewards.

 

[petejt]

If I didn't already have a 1981 single channel 50 watt JCM 800, then I'd love to have either the mini 1 watt/0.1watt JMP or JCM 800 that was released.

 

[Schaf]

And in the late 80's and 90's I gaurantee Marshall sold way more amps than Mesa. My god, just look how many 900's are out there.

Because people sold them for better amps. I remember people in the 90's (people I'd ask at music stores) saying how much they hated the 900's and DSL's and that the 800's, bare bones as they were, were far superior to anything Marshall had produced since. The only 900 model that I've heard receive any praise is the SL-X and I've only heard one guy get a stupefying tone with a 4100 (Trey from Morbid Angel). Ok, I'll grant you that Marshall sold more amps in the late 80's, but Marshall lost a lot of ground in the 90's.

I really hate to use popular radio as an example, but even fruity lightweight pop bands of the 90's were using recto's (Foo Fighters, Matchbox 20). It goes without saying that metal bands were using Recto's (very badly, but they used them) and 5150's and OLD Marshalls.

I've actually always preferred amps with that 'british sound' (I've got JJ E34L's in my XXX right now, because bands that used Marshall taught me that mids are great).

Hell, When Ola did the comparison of they 8 high gainers ,the JVM js came to the top only behind the Deizel, IMO. They are making some killer sounding amps.

That's fine, I don't wish them ill or anything. If I had the means to crank it up, I might look into a JVM. Problem would be that I'd have to have a couple of different speaker cabs (one with Greenbacks for the rock and lead stuff, one for heavier stuff).

You're just in denial. I've said it many times, if you can't get a good sound out of those Marshall's that you mentioned,the problem's not the amp. I can get a JCM 900 or a JVM to sound almost identical to my 800. Especially the 900. Turn down the gain and hit it with a TS. There you go. Most people seem to think because they don't sound like a dual Rec that they aren't any good. If you buy one for that tone, you bought the wrong amp.

 

[jabps]

.

For $2400, I would expect much more from Marshall. I will take a QuickRod over a Marshall every day of the week. I liken this to sport bikes. Novice riders ride Honda and Kawasaki because they're more "forgiving" than Suzuki and Yamaha. A Splawn amp WILL punctuate every flaw in your playing.

Bottom line, I no longer count on a Marshall amp for my "Marshall" sounds. If I were running Marshall, that statement would have me worried...

And yet they remain one of the most successful amp brands ever. I mean, I count on my Marshall to deliver a Marshall sound and it does just that...better than any amp I've owned. I loved my first Splawn QR...the second prompted me to get the JVM...and I never looked back. I certainly, in no way think I took a step down. Heck I owned the SigX at the same time and sold it as well. Again...it's all subjective...it's all based on what we like as players.

 

[yngzaklynch]

Man this thread is killin me. It started because i had a few beers, looked at the prices of Friedman and some others and vented. Look Marshall is responsible for loads of killer tones. No queston. But they have failed to do the obvious. They have failed to make that aggressive Plexi amp that they should have been building since the 80s. Proof? Look how many amp modification companies have popped up offering hot rodded Marshall tones. Bogner is building a Marshall. Friedman is building a Marshall or two. The list could go on and on. If Marshall would have paid attention to what the Market has been begging for forever we wouldn't have to pay over 3 grand for a goddamn hot Plexi. Marshall has been missing the obvious opportunity for decades because it's been to busy riding the wave from the 60s and 70s. Marshall amps i love you but kids today don't typically have pics of Page, Hendrix and Van Halen on their wall. Many are growing up listening to "heroes" that are using other amps if even tube amps at all. Pay attention to your fan base and build the amp you should have built years ago. Thats my simple request. I am a nobody but i can 't believe i'm the only person wanting this amp from Marshall.

 

[snowdog]

Man this thread is killin me. It started because i had a few beers, looked at the prices of Friedman and some others and vented. Look Marshall is responsible for loads of killer tones. No queston. But they have failed to do the obvious. They have failed to make that aggressive Plexi amp that they should have been building since the 80s. Proof? Look how many amp modification companies have popped up offering hot rodded Marshall tones. Bogner is building a Marshall. Friedman is building a Marshall or two. The list could go on and on. If Marshall would have paid attention to what the Market has been begging for forever we wouldn't have to pay over 3 grand for a goddamn hot Plexi. Marshall has been missing the obvious opportunity for decades because it's been to busy riding the wave from the 60s and 70s. Marshall amps i love you but kids today don't typically have pics of Page, Hendrix and Van Halen on their wall. Many are growing up listening to "heroes" that are using other amps if even tube amps at all. Pay attention to your fan base and build the amp you should have built years ago. Thats my simple request. I am a nobody but i can 't believe i'm the only person wanting this amp from Marshall.

Email Marshall and see what they have to say on the matter.

 

[yngzaklynch]

I don't think they give a crap about my thoughts

 

[H Golf Sport]

Man this thread is killin me. It started because i had a few beers, looked at the prices of Friedman and some others and vented. Look Marshall is responsible for loads of killer tones. No queston. But they have failed to do the obvious. They have failed to make that aggressive Plexi amp that they should have been building since the 80s. Proof? Look how many amp modification companies have popped up offering hot rodded Marshall tones. Bogner is building a Marshall. Friedman is building a Marshall or two. The list could go on and on. If Marshall would have paid attention to what the Market has been begging for forever we wouldn't have to pay over 3 grand for a goddamn hot Plexi. Marshall has been missing the obvious opportunity for decades because it's been to busy riding the wave from the 60s and 70s. Marshall amps i love you but kids today don't typically have pics of Page, Hendrix and Van Halen on their wall. Many are growing up listening to "heroes" that are using other amps if even tube amps at all. Pay attention to your fan base and build the amp you should have built years ago. Thats my simple request. I am a nobody but i can 't believe i'm the only person wanting this amp from Marshall.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0051ZFSJW.
Seems like the bogner will be prices more than fairly for being hand wired.

 

[H Golf Sport]

Example 2 http://www.indoorstorm.com/Vht_Deliverance_60_Head_Black_Avh010-p-2993.html
Does a mean modded Marshall, maybe with a little hi watt thrown in. Got mine used a few months after it was released $840
No way anyone needs to spend well over $3000 for those sounds.
Check the "NAD old dirty" or something like that thread about the cheap VTM. Supposed to be a Jose copy when you set the dip switches right.
Not even counting the cheap 900's dsl's VM's etc... on craigslist all day long.

Nothing at all wrong with wanting a 3 monkeys, Cameron, Friedman, Suhr, etc... But you don't have to break the bank to get hot plexi sounds.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

Man this thread is killin me. It started because i had a few beers, looked at the prices of Friedman and some others and vented. Look Marshall is responsible for loads of killer tones. No queston. But they have failed to do the obvious. They have failed to make that aggressive Plexi amp that they should have been building since the 80s. Proof? Look how many amp modification companies have popped up offering hot rodded Marshall tones. Bogner is building a Marshall. Friedman is building a Marshall or two. The list could go on and on. If Marshall would have paid attention to what the Market has been begging for forever we wouldn't have to pay over 3 grand for a goddamn hot Plexi. Marshall has been missing the obvious opportunity for decades because it's been to busy riding the wave from the 60s and 70s. Marshall amps i love you but kids today don't typically have pics of Page, Hendrix and Van Halen on their wall. Many are growing up listening to "heroes" that are using other amps if even tube amps at all. Pay attention to your fan base and build the amp you should have built years ago. Thats my simple request. I am a nobody but i can 't believe i'm the only person wanting this amp from Marshall.

Maybe "missing the obvious" in the RT crowd. But the whole musician world doesn't revolve around RATT licks

 

[yngzaklynch]

You're killin me