Marshall KK or VHT Pittbull Ultralead ?

[highgainer]

Between those two choices I would pick the UL. VHT will have a different feel than the Marshall. Sound is one thing, feel another entirely. That being said, I think the UL is more amp with more versatility. It is a bit dryer and tighter than the Marshall...less sag if you will.

And that is the element I'm looking for! Dryness! It's not thin, sterile, plastic dryness, I mean a woody, fat yet articulate dryness which VHT is renowned for, almost like what you could hear from Dave Mustaine and Marty Friedman rigs back in the Clash of the titans tour.

 

[highgainer]

A clear tight strong and mix cutting seems to be the characteristic of the Ultra lead... but again have not played the marshall KK and am not professional for record and mixing haven done so... but i own a UL and its an insane amp

That's great! As you have an ultralead you are the right person to answer my questions! I really don't care for recording or mixing anything, just looking for a great highgain tone to keep up with a loud hitting drummer, and if the amp is house friendly and quite good for the eventual bedroom jam then it's a plus! Then I plan to either get an orange PPC 412 or a VHT FB412

Both the KK and the Ultralead are in super clean shape, the ultralead is 1500 euros, the KK is much cheaper, almost half the price of the UL, price tag is something to take in consideration, but I'm mainly looking for tone and reliability.

Oh... well taking reference to what the rest of people here... getta VHT UL if you like a modern vibe and getta Marshall if you prefer old school vibe...

Suggest you to play it in person and many may not like the VHT ultra lead as its unforgiving and its tight in a certain way but not tight like the mesa mark series or the JP signature...

You may like the orange V30s or VHT FB with P50es... well many have said the P50es has a "hollow" sound and its more "softer" compared to V30s...
But the Fryette now has fanes speakers loaded in and maybe the FB412 has improved by the new speakers by those couldnt gel with the eminence p50es?

I used to have an orange cab 212 too when i first got my VHT 50CL its nice but abit harsh and for some reason i sold it to getta FB412 p50es since i thought i wanna true VHT tones and also i had thought the orange212 sounded kinda "boxy" when heard at few steps away....

The VHT UL has a 50watt half power mode and a master volume and it can excels well in room volume...but i guess many will prefer the master at about 1 or 2 oclock and having the channel volume to tune to desired volume but i find IMO to keep the master at about 12 or 11 and bring up a notch higher on the channel volume for more meat ?

Oh and last thing is if you were to decide on VHT ultra lead make sure you getta new version as its gone thru few times of 12at7 tube driver revision... just getta UL with 6 preamp tubes having that 12at7 delivering more punch ....

Indeed I heard many times about the P50s "hollow" thing, but I thought maybe it's because people use them with other amplifiers while they were primarily designed for VHT amps.

Is a 2005 Ultralead considered to be "new version" ?

2005 is the new version. You'd have to go back to the very early models to find the different ones.

Yeah a 2005 model would be pretty it... but just to ensure ask the seller if its gotta 6 preamp slot... if yes thats it

Thank you so much for the help! I will surely ask the seller about the preamps, it's got hopefully 6.

 

[highgainer]

Hi mhenson... cool well just wonder the fanes on the FB412 has a tone of a p50es based variant or a v30 based variant with improvement ?

Before I bought the cab I had found a comment where somebody said they were similar to a creamback H75. I think that that's probably a close enough description. It sounds completely different in the p50e, which I hated and thought it sounded like a cardboard box.

+2

Stay away from the P50e stock speakers that come in most Fryette cabs. Weird sounding speaker. Very hollow in the mids and boxy... like playing in a cardboard box.

There is a nice slanted 412 FB that I was eyeing, never tried one before, but the numerous reviews about the P50s "hollowness" is bugging me. What would be the suitable speakers/cabs for the Ultralead ? V30 ? K100 ?

 

[RedB4Black]

Hi mhenson... cool well just wonder the fanes on the FB412 has a tone of a p50es based variant or a v30 based variant with improvement ?

Before I bought the cab I had found a comment where somebody said they were similar to a creamback H75. I think that that's probably a close enough description. It sounds completely different in the p50e, which I hated and thought it sounded like a cardboard box.

+2

Stay away from the P50e stock speakers that come in most Fryette cabs. Weird sounding speaker. Very hollow in the mids and boxy... like playing in a cardboard box.

There is a nice slanted 412 FB that I was eyeing, never tried one before, but the numerous reviews about the P50s "hollowness" is bugging me. What would be the suitable speakers/cabs for the Ultralead ? V30 ? K100 ?

I've always liked my Fryette amps with v30 cabs.

 

[D-Rock]

When I owned a KK I desperately wanted to remove that EQ curve which dominated the amps voice. Just couldn't get around it.

Just turn the boost section off and it becomes a regular 800 basically.

I got the boost section modded to add a second boost mode that has a flatter response.

Yeah, I disliked the amp altogether, and didn't want to mod it beyond it's stock form. It went bye bye.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Hi mhenson... cool well just wonder the fanes on the FB412 has a tone of a p50es based variant or a v30 based variant with improvement ?

Before I bought the cab I had found a comment where somebody said they were similar to a creamback H75. I think that that's probably a close enough description. It sounds completely different in the p50e, which I hated and thought it sounded like a cardboard box.

+2

Stay away from the P50e stock speakers that come in most Fryette cabs. Weird sounding speaker. Very hollow in the mids and boxy... like playing in a cardboard box.

There is a nice slanted 412 FB that I was eyeing, never tried one before, but the numerous reviews about the P50s "hollowness" is bugging me. What would be the suitable speakers/cabs for the Ultralead ? V30 ? K100 ?

I've always liked my Fryette amps with v30 cabs.

Yep. V30s sound much better with the UL.

 

[HanJolo]

I tried my Ultralead with a Rectifier 2x12 with the stock v30s and didn't like it as much as my Fatbottom 4x12 with the stock p50e . Perhaps it would've been different if I had a Mesa 4x12, but I did end up selling the Mesa cab.

FWIW OP I've only played a 2203KK once for a few hours and it sounded really good but not good enough to make me take it home with me (I was pretty close though; I considered replacing my 6505+ with it but decided against it). The 2203 sounded great though and I do appreciate that hot rodded Marshall sound. I didn't like how it was single channel but if you don't need multiple channels anyway it's something less to worry about I suppose. I found the UL to be more versatile and was just more of what I wanted in a sound. I think the UL is the definition of what you're looking for; the UL is tighter and has more clarity than the Marshall IMO. IIRC both have similar amounts of oomph. The Ultralead cuts like nothing else IMO and has great sounding mids pretty much wherever it's EQ'ed.

If it helps I could record myself playing travel in stygian or something and show it to you with my UL and see if you like it. Send me a PM if you want this I'll be more likely to see that than remember to check back here, hah. If I can't get around to it tomorrow it'll be probably about a week though.

If they're roughly in the same price range my vote goes for the UL. I'm out of touch with what goes for what but I'd imagine the UL goes for more $$? I've had my UL for just over 3 years now and don't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon.

 

[skoora]

That is a tough choice. I had a UL in the late 90's and it sounded great. Tight and articulate. But...in a band mix it was lacking something I couldn't put my finger on..until I borrowed a current production 6100 Marshall (LM model I think, came with 34's) and used it at practice (I was only guitar player). After a few run through of some songs with each head it became obvious. The Marshall just lived to be the voice in a band mix. By itself, was it as tight and articulate as the VHT? Not quite. But it's midrange and top end voice just barked through and ultimately was better to me. The band agreed as well. The VHT was always a struggle to dial in the kerang I was missing from Marshalls. Now, that 6100 was still pretty tight and we were in drop C back then and I could tight, palm mute, no problem. I've had mixed experiences playing the KK and never got to get one loud in a band context but my gut would have me go KK, knowing that Marshall DNA would probably "deliver the goods" in a band mix. But Priest around painkiller and more so jugulator had moved to rack setups. By Jugulator it would have been JMP-1 preamps and possibly Rocktron Pirhana's? Well at least live any way. Those rigs are a lot more smooth and saturated than Marshall heads tend to be, which is also why I think Priest's tone has pretty much sucked since then For what you have described, for what you like I think it's the UL, for what I like the KK.

Heavily echo the sentiments of distaste for p50e speakers. I used to sell VHT's in the 90's and when I could still order their cabs with V30's instead it was night and day better.

What's the price of Engl there? A vid posted of a Steve Morse model here recently sounded killer (only one flavor from the vid though) and the powerball II and Savage, or the Blackmore sound like some pretty cool versatile amps.

 

[CEG85]

Id get the VHT.

Everyone plays JCM800's.
Why not be different?

 

[apophis]

Did you guys play the p50e speakers after a good 50-60 hour break in? things are pretty stiff when new.....My Deliverance 412 sounds awesome with all my amps

Concerning OP, I'd go Ultra Lead

 

[stephen sawall]

There is something magical about the kerang of a Marshall in a live mix. The EQ and distortion recipe of these amps are pretty different.

 

[highgainer]

I tried my Ultralead with a Rectifier 2x12 with the stock v30s and didn't like it as much as my Fatbottom 4x12 with the stock p50e . Perhaps it would've been different if I had a Mesa 4x12, but I did end up selling the Mesa cab.

FWIW OP I've only played a 2203KK once for a few hours and it sounded really good but not good enough to make me take it home with me (I was pretty close though; I considered replacing my 6505+ with it but decided against it). The 2203 sounded great though and I do appreciate that hot rodded Marshall sound. I didn't like how it was single channel but if you don't need multiple channels anyway it's something less to worry about I suppose. I found the UL to be more versatile and was just more of what I wanted in a sound. I think the UL is the definition of what you're looking for; the UL is tighter and has more clarity than the Marshall IMO. IIRC both have similar amounts of oomph. The Ultralead cuts like nothing else IMO and has great sounding mids pretty much wherever it's EQ'ed.

If it helps I could record myself playing travel in stygian or something and show it to you with my UL and see if you like it. Send me a PM if you want this I'll be more likely to see that than remember to check back here, hah. If I can't get around to it tomorrow it'll be probably about a week though.

If they're roughly in the same price range my vote goes for the UL. I'm out of touch with what goes for what but I'd imagine the UL goes for more $$? I've had my UL for just over 3 years now and don't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon.

Oh man!!! It would be AMAZING if you try to record with any possible way the mighty riffs of Travel in Stygian through the UL!! One of the best ways to showcase the articulation and tonal qualities of a high gain setting.

Actually the KK is 750 euros, the UL is 1500 euros.
I will still PM to make sure that you get around to it )))

 

[highgainer]

A clear tight strong and mix cutting seems to be the characteristic of the Ultra lead... but again have not played the marshall KK and am not professional for record and mixing haven done so... but i own a UL and its an insane amp

That's great! As you have an ultralead you are the right person to answer my questions! I really don't care for recording or mixing anything, just looking for a great highgain tone to keep up with a loud hitting drummer, and if the amp is house friendly and quite good for the eventual bedroom jam then it's a plus! Then I plan to either get an orange PPC 412 or a VHT FB412

Both the KK and the Ultralead are in super clean shape, the ultralead is 1500 euros, the KK is much cheaper, almost half the price of the UL, price tag is something to take in consideration, but I'm mainly looking for tone and reliability.

Oh... well taking reference to what the rest of people here... getta VHT UL if you like a modern vibe and getta Marshall if you prefer old school vibe...

Suggest you to play it in person and many may not like the VHT ultra lead as its unforgiving and its tight in a certain way but not tight like the mesa mark series or the JP signature...

You may like the orange V30s or VHT FB with P50es... well many have said the P50es has a "hollow" sound and its more "softer" compared to V30s...
But the Fryette now has fanes speakers loaded in and maybe the FB412 has improved by the new speakers by those couldnt gel with the eminence p50es?

I used to have an orange cab 212 too when i first got my VHT 50CL its nice but abit harsh and for some reason i sold it to getta FB412 p50es since i thought i wanna true VHT tones and also i had thought the orange212 sounded kinda "boxy" when heard at few steps away....

The VHT UL has a 50watt half power mode and a master volume and it can excels well in room volume...but i guess many will prefer the master at about 1 or 2 oclock and having the channel volume to tune to desired volume but i find IMO to keep the master at about 12 or 11 and bring up a notch higher on the channel volume for more meat ?

Oh and last thing is if you were to decide on VHT ultra lead make sure you getta new version as its gone thru few times of 12at7 tube driver revision... just getta UL with 6 preamp tubes having that 12at7 delivering more punch ....

Indeed I heard many times about the P50s "hollow" thing, but I thought maybe it's because people use them with other amplifiers while they were primarily designed for VHT amps.

Is a 2005 Ultralead considered to be "new version" ?

2005 is the new version. You'd have to go back to the very early models to find the different ones.

Yeah a 2005 model would be pretty it... but just to ensure ask the seller if its gotta 6 preamp slot... if yes thats it

I asked the seller, he confirmed his 2005 UL has 5 X 12ax7 plus 1 X 12at7. So I guess I'm set!

 

[highgainer]

That is a tough choice. I had a UL in the late 90's and it sounded great. Tight and articulate. But...in a band mix it was lacking something I couldn't put my finger on..until I borrowed a current production 6100 Marshall (LM model I think, came with 34's) and used it at practice (I was only guitar player). After a few run through of some songs with each head it became obvious. The Marshall just lived to be the voice in a band mix. By itself, was it as tight and articulate as the VHT? Not quite. But it's midrange and top end voice just barked through and ultimately was better to me. The band agreed as well. The VHT was always a struggle to dial in the kerang I was missing from Marshalls. Now, that 6100 was still pretty tight and we were in drop C back then and I could tight, palm mute, no problem. I've had mixed experiences playing the KK and never got to get one loud in a band context but my gut would have me go KK, knowing that Marshall DNA would probably "deliver the goods" in a band mix. But Priest around painkiller and more so jugulator had moved to rack setups. By Jugulator it would have been JMP-1 preamps and possibly Rocktron Pirhana's? Well at least live any way. Those rigs are a lot more smooth and saturated than Marshall heads tend to be, which is also why I think Priest's tone has pretty much sucked since then For what you have described, for what you like I think it's the UL, for what I like the KK.

Heavily echo the sentiments of distaste for p50e speakers. I used to sell VHT's in the 90's and when I could still order their cabs with V30's instead it was night and day better.

What's the price of Engl there? A vid posted of a Steve Morse model here recently sounded killer (only one flavor from the vid though) and the powerball II and Savage, or the Blackmore sound like some pretty cool versatile amps.

Indeed it's a tough choice, not only cause I never played one, but particularly cause there are guys who own both, yet some prefer the KK and some prefer the UL ))) Tone is definitely subjective.

For Jugulator (I love the album) it was a rocktron piranha and a marshall poweramp, at least live )) Before I settle down with either the KK or the UL I was looking for a poweramp, I thought a Mesa fifty would fit the bill, but once the opportunity of owning either the UL or the KK showed up I decided it's better to buy a head with a loop, so I would end up with a head, and the piranha which could bring extra tones when plugged into the loop.
Of course the KK has no fx loop, and where I live no one could mod it...and most people seem to vote for the UL )))

Believe it or not, I was about to pull the trigger on the new el34 Engl artist 50, from the videos on youtube you could tell it's a mixture of the best elements of engl and marshall, but I grew up reading raving comments and reviews about the UL, now i'm 31 and ready to get what I deserve (me thinks )

As for the speakers, I think I will go for v30, maybe an orange PPC 412 ?

 

[skoora]

FWIW i didn't find the KK sounded as good in supposed straight, non Beast mode as a regular 2203. Even though it should have been exactly the same. Maybe the subtle difference in a KT88 power section? I think getting an amp with a loop is the way to go so you can use the pre-amp if you want. I also like the sentiment of you have to try the holy grail amps at least once in your life. The UL, even though I didn't keep it, I'm so glad I saved up and got one to give it a try. I remember the holy shit moment I had when I first tried one at Apple music in Portland in 95/96. I saved up for the next year to go back and buy one. Back then there weren't many amps where you could plug straight in and get that kind of tight, heavy gain, that wasn't a can of bees. The only other amp available that was close for straight in heavy was a 5150. JCM 900's were a joke and Recto's needed a pedal and still couldn't touch 5150's or the VHT's in my opinion. Actually, now I think I want to get one again....

 

[highgainer]

FWIW i didn't find the KK sounded as good in supposed straight, non Beast mode as a regular 2203. Even though it should have been exactly the same. Maybe the subtle difference in a KT88 power section? I think getting an amp with a loop is the way to go so you can use the pre-amp if you want. I also like the sentiment of you have to try the holy grail amps at least once in your life. The UL, even though I didn't keep it, I'm so glad I saved up and got one to give it a try. I remember the holy shit moment I had when I first tried one at Apple music in Portland in 95/96. I saved up for the next year to go back and buy one. Back then there weren't many amps where you could plug straight in and get that kind of tight, heavy gain, that wasn't a can of bees. The only other amp available that was close for straight in heavy was a 5150. JCM 900's were a joke and Recto's needed a pedal and still couldn't touch 5150's or the VHT's in my opinion. Actually, now I think I want to get one again....

It seems that someone is trying to torture! I came here in order to get some feedback about the UL and the KK, the guys were awesome and brought awesome input, then now third seller appears with....Blackbeauty 2562 and GP3 !!! It hurts! Just when I set my mind on the UL the blackbeauty and the GP3 shows it's pretty face!!