Mesa IIc+

[WarHed]

Living in Denmark and not being able to ship anything to Mesa. Is it possible to do the loop mod yourself?

Sure, the schematics are out there. If you know about electronics and amps then it's just a circuit modification process like anything else

 

[Racerxrated]

/\ Yeah, I'd be curious to hear from some of you with IIC+ experience how the JP-2C stands up? After chasing tone/flipping amps for years, I've settled on a Mark IV and JP2C as my favorites, but have been wondering if tracking down a IIC+ would be worth it?

You can get the JP to a recorded tone that is very close to an original, but the feels are light years difference. It's 2D vs. 3D. here's a vid I did to compare the former. You can't compare the latter, you just have to experience it.

Here's my take. Playing with yourself, there is no amp better than a real IIC+. It's like being in the porn vs. watching it. I class them like this.
IIC+ > IIB > III > IV > V > JP

However, playing with your friends it's a totally different story. For me personally the C+ has a nasally mid note that fights with my vocals in the mix. The III has it a bit too. The B not so much. Also, the newer amps (despite all the compression) are just WAY more versatile in the band mix and in that context the tonal differences are largely lost. I class them like this.
V > JP > III > IIB > IV > IIC+

I've had 4 2Bs, one with a loop mod...3 of them Coliseums. 2 Mk IIIs, a purple and a red...both Simul. 4 C+s.....presently a Coliseum. I've played a IV and a JP2C. Every single one had that Mark tone, very unique and signature in the Mesa line. But every single one could be dialed in to be EQd almost exactly alike...some had more compression, some more open/vintage...but all could have the mids, lows, and highs in the same place. The difference for my ears is the C+ clarity, harmonic complexity/3D if you will and the feel which is unique to the C+ only. But the mids on any C+ that I've owned were in the same place as any other Mark that I've ever played...I always scoop the GEQ pretty much the same way with all of them. Some required a little more scoop to get there, but I could always get there with any of them.

I did gig a bit with my first C+, an SRG and I always had to boost the mids even more live to get any type of cut at all...just the nature of the Mesa tone vs say a Marshall. I never felt any of the Marks, including the C+ to have enough mids without some help with a boost pedal. Sure you can boost the 750 slider but then it becomes honk city.
The only Mark out of the 10 I've owned that I noticed had more mids was the Red stripe III..and I could easily drop those mids to match the others.

 

[misterspockyall]

What did this do tone wise? Looks like his posts may have been deleted?

A quoted response from the man himself:

APEMAN wrote:

Cheers!

Thanks!

 

[Achilles]

What did this do tone wise? Looks like his posts may have been deleted?

A quoted response from the man himself:

APEMAN wrote:

Cheers!

Thanks!

 

[Tiger1016]

I am excited to see how much the IIC+ that is on its way to me now, which will be the first one for me, will compare to the Mark V 90 watt that I also have incoming alongside the IIC+ model I have been using the Axe Fx. Plenty of good answers here already, I am just excited to get to experience what all of the fuss is about first hand myself.

 

[Markedman]

I am excited to see how much the IIC+ that is on its way to me now, which will be the first one for me, will compare to the Mark V 90 watt that I also have incoming alongside the IIC+ model I have been using the Axe Fx. Plenty of good answers here already, I am just excited to get to experience what all of the fuss is about first hand myself.

If you bought one with a GEQ, you're all set, if not, there are ways to get metal tone at a low volume. Once you open it up to highway speed, C+'s without the GEQ sound great, but at low volume a BBE or GEQ in the loop does it, kinda.

You do need a GEQ. Somewhere, for metal tone.

 

[Achilles]

I am excited to see how much the IIC+ will compare to the Mark V 90 watt

That signature IIC+ sound and feel we all read about, you will only get from that amp obviously.
I personally think it's a very dated & uninspiring sound to use by itself. After awhile, you will only play metallica riffs to see how close you can get
Anyway.
If you want everything else, plus consistancy, you should keep the Mark V

 

[Tiger1016]

I am excited to see how much the IIC+ that is on its way to me now, which will be the first one for me, will compare to the Mark V 90 watt that I also have incoming alongside the IIC+ model I have been using the Axe Fx. Plenty of good answers here already, I am just excited to get to experience what all of the fuss is about first hand myself.

If you bought one with a GEQ, you're all set, if not, there are ways to get metal tone at a low volume. Once you open it up to highway speed, C+'s without the GEQ sound great, but at low volume a BBE or GEQ in the loop does it, kinda.

You do need a GEQ. Somewhere, for metal tone.

It is a non-EQ IIC+ HX model. Thanks to GJgo video on using a parametric EQ in the loop of a IIB, which I wound up preferring the outboard EQ in that particular comparison, I decided to take the plunge on a non-EQ IIC+ experiment.

I am using the vast and powerful EQ options from the Axe Fx III in the loop of the C+. I had a Mark V 90 watt for 4 years before I switch over to exclusively using the Mark IV and IIC+ models in the Axe, so I know my way around dialing Marks in. But getting the levels in the outboard EQ set just right and dealing with the loop being in a different part of the circuit than a built in EQ, will take some trial and error. Good thing is I am not chasing someone elses particular tone and my own thing is a not Metallica 2.0, but would still sound great covering them anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0E0aiE4ns0&t=105s

 

[Tiger1016]

I am excited to see how much the IIC+ will compare to the Mark V 90 watt

That signature IIC+ sound and feel we all read about, you will only get from that amp obviously.
I personally think it's a very dated & uninspiring sound to use by itself. After awhile, you will only play metallica riffs to see how close you can get
Anyway.
If you want everything else, plus consistancy, you should keep the Mark V

My plan happens to involve doing a healthy amount of blending with the IIC+ and V together in a mono track for some unique hybrid tones. Also, I don't recall how to play any of the Metallica riffs, so that won't be a problem.

 

[Achilles]

My plan happens to involve doing a healthy amount of blending with the IIC+ and V together in a mono track for some unique hybrid tones. Also, I don't recall how to play any of the Metallica riffs, so that won't be a problem.

What? No metallica riffs? Why did you get the c+ then ?
All jokes aside,
That's great but maybe you'll have better results by blending a mark amp with a marshall like amp or something similar like, mark with recto, mark with bogner or friedman or EVH and so on..
But yeah, it's all good

 

[Tiger1016]

My plan happens to involve doing a healthy amount of blending with the IIC+ and V together in a mono track for some unique hybrid tones. Also, I don't recall how to play any of the Metallica riffs, so that won't be a problem.

What? No metallica riffs? Why did you get the c+ then ?
All jokes aside,
That's great but maybe you'll have better results by blending a mark amp with a marshall like amp or something similar like, mark with recto, mark with bogner or friedman or EVH and so on..
But yeah, it's all good

I know it kind of is sacrilege to not have intentions of busting out any Metallica with a IIC+. And it is a totally logical comment about blending other amps outside the Mark family, probably for 99% of people who would be blending in the first place.

But, for me, I have done enough homework to know that the only other "real" amps that I would be interested in owing outside of a Mark IIC+, III, IVa, and a V 90 watt are a Wizard MCII and MTL. I have been an Axe Fx user for the past 6 years (II and now III), so I have been able to try a wide variety of options but always wound up falling back on its Mark IV model up until I figured out how to get even more of what I was chasing out of the IIC+ model.

Now I have a hunch that my dream tone will involve a IIC+ dialed in with a tight but still full, lush, and 3D tone that is then blended in with another Mark amp that is dialed in to add in both extra bite/crunch and midrange grind/growl. Depending on the circumstances, a III, IVa, or V would be the best tool, but a V is going to be the best compromise and most versatile option across the board for me, at least I think so.

I plan to always have an Axe Fx III or a Neural Quad Cortex around, so I can fill in any gaps, if wanted or needed, with the vast models available in those units, until I can afford to add a Wizard to the team.

 

[Achilles]

I have done enough homework to know that the only other "real" amps that I would be interested in owing are a Wizard MCII and MTL. I have a hunch that my dream tone will involve a IIC+ dialed in with a tight but still full, lush, and 3D tone that is then blended in with another Mark amp that is dialed in to add in both extra bite/crunch and midrange grind/growl

Sounds like you wanna achieve the ultimate mark sound. Kind of what Hetfield did in Black Album
How would you describe these two wizard amps?

 

[Racerxrated]

Don't ignore the MCI...no contour control, but still setup like a JCM 800...with more gain, tight and huge low end with the high end and balls of a HiWatt.

All Wizards are great but if you want mids that are more Marshall-like stay away from the MTL. I've owned a MTL and an MCI. Great amps. Only sold the MC because I needed the cash to fund my C+ Coliseum.

 

[Tiger1016]

I have done enough homework to know that the only other "real" amps that I would be interested in owing are a Wizard MCII and MTL. I have a hunch that my dream tone will involve a IIC+ dialed in with a tight but still full, lush, and 3D tone that is then blended in with another Mark amp that is dialed in to add in both extra bite/crunch and midrange grind/growl

Sounds like you wanna achieve the ultimate mark sound. Kind of what Hetfield did in Black Album
How would you describe these two wizard amps?

You should definitely check the Wizards out.

What I like about the Wizards is they seem to be the most Mark like option out there in the Modded Marshal realm. Tight and crisp bass that is still very full, aggressive mid forward grind, crunchy highs that are not fatiguing, uncompressed and raw, punchy and immediate response, and a 3D level of articulation and dynamics. This is effectively the same way I would describe the IIC+ and why I would love to own both. But the issue is the Wizard amps are super expensive (MCII 100 watt = $4895) and they rarely come up used and are not for much of a discount when they do.

I have an interesting thread going in this link (https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... t-31230893), and it seems like many other Mark series fans are also a fan of the Wizards. I hope to be able to add a MCII down the road, but I can't justify one for now as there would be too much overlap with the IIC+. I would basically use either for the exact same tones and would not have the right secondary amp to blend in to get the extra bite and crunch that I am wanting.

Here are a few links to check out. Both channels have a number of Wizard videos to check out along with plent of other amps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuq7W6cFKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iehIo1YiVNU&t=127s

 

[Achilles]

Sounds like the perfect amp to mix with a mark amp, it seems.
The sound of the Garage Inc album (which i dig a lot) had something to do with that iirc.
Anyway, thanx for the info, I'll check'em out

 

[Racerxrated]

I have done enough homework to know that the only other "real" amps that I would be interested in owing are a Wizard MCII and MTL. I have a hunch that my dream tone will involve a IIC+ dialed in with a tight but still full, lush, and 3D tone that is then blended in with another Mark amp that is dialed in to add in both extra bite/crunch and midrange grind/growl

Sounds like you wanna achieve the ultimate mark sound. Kind of what Hetfield did in Black Album
How would you describe these two wizard amps?

You should definitely check the Wizards out.

What I like about the Wizards is they seem to be the most Mark like option out there in the Modded Marshal realm. Tight and crisp bass that is still very full, aggressive mid forward grind, crunchy highs that are not fatiguing, uncompressed and raw, punchy and immediate response, and a 3D level of articulation and dynamics. This is effectively the same way I would describe the IIC+ and why I would love to own both. But the issue is the Wizard amps are super expensive (MCII 100 watt = $4895) and they rarely come up used and are not for much of a discount when they do.

I have an interesting thread going in this link (https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... t-31230893), and it seems like many other Mark series fans are also a fan of the Wizards. I hope to be able to add a MCII down the road, but I can't justify one for now as there would be too much overlap with the IIC+. I would basically use either for the exact same tones and would not have the right secondary amp to blend in to get the extra bite and crunch that I am wanting.

Here are a few links to check out. Both channels have a number of Wizard videos to check out along with plent of other amps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuq7W6cFKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iehIo1YiVNU&t=127s

I think your plan of having a C+ and a Wizard is a good one. They both are amazing in feel, clarity, thump, 3D harmonic complexity etc etc. Just top of the heap high gain amps.
But you don't have to worry about overlap between the two...they are different. The C+ (or any Mark) will have compression, which is a little surprising based off the great clarity it has. It's a tight amp but still retains the 'sponginess' Mesa tone has.
The Wizard is WAY brighter by design, will be tighter, has literally NO compression; it's a combination of Marshall/HiWatt DNA that leaves it with nice upper mids along with extended lows/highs. The MTL doesn't have the upper mids of the MC though. Much lower mid centric. You can dial each of them to try to match each other but it won't be the same tone.
Which is a good thing...they each have their own thing going and will complement each other nicely.

 

[Tiger1016]

[
I think your plan of having a C+ and a Wizard is a good one. They both are amazing in feel, clarity, thump, 3D harmonic complexity etc etc. Just top of the heap high gain amps.
But you don't have to worry about overlap between the two...they are different. The C+ (or any Mark) will have compression, which is a little surprising based off the great clarity it has. It's a tight amp but still retains the 'sponginess' Mesa tone has.
The Wizard is WAY brighter by design, will be tighter, has literally NO compression; it's a combination of Marshall/HiWatt DNA that leaves it with nice upper mids along with extended lows/highs. The MTL doesn't have the upper mids of the MC though. Much lower mid centric. You can dial each of them to try to match each other but it won't be the same tone.
Which is a good thing...they each have their own thing going and will complement each other nicely.

I mean come on. That is some dangling a carrot torture going on there haha. This is both great to hear and a problem to hear. I want a Wizard really really bad and your lust inspiring comments bring me back to the struggle I was facing a few weeks back. I NEED a IIC+ in some way shape or form, whether the real amp or at least a model. I also want at Mark V 90 watt to go along with it.

The good and bad thing is I am able to get the two Marks for the same price as a Wizard (making a value compromise by going with a non GEQ C+ with a parametric EQ in the loop). Either the 2 Marks or 1 Wizard are in my budget for the time being.

I could part ways with the IIC+ HX that I just got, forego the trade i was planning on making for a V this weekend, put in an order for a MCII with a Bad Kat mod, and live off the IIC+ and IV models in the Axe Fx III alongside the Wizard. I had decided to go the Mark route because I knew and trusted them more, and because the Marshall thing has never been as much of my thing as a Mark or Recto has. But these Wizards haunt me, and I do have a great cover for the Marks in the Axe Fx to pair alongside a Wizard.

If I saw the right Wizard model at a more approachable price at this very moment, I would be making an impulse decision on the spot. Wish there was a way to get my hands on one for a trial run. I am struggling through my relapse moment right now haha.

 

[Racerxrated]

Don't fool yourself into thinking ANYTHING from the AXE will take the place or sound that much like the real deal. Those Kemper/AXE FX are cool units that are great for gigs, recording etc but they just don't sound that similar to my ears; I've had a few versions now both through FRFR and a power amp. They are still too far away for me to take the place of a real amp.
If you are patient you can find a used Wizard for 3K or so..the MCI can get down to 2400 and the MCII/MTL can be had for 3500. But they don't pop up too often. I'd highly recommend keeping the C+ and saving/biding your time for a new or used Wizard. With those two amps you'd have everything covered high gain wise, IMO.

 

[Tiger1016]

Don't fool yourself into thinking ANYTHING from the AXE will take the place or sound that much like the real deal. Those Kemper/AXE FX are cool units that are great for gigs, recording etc but they just don't sound that similar to my ears; I've had a few versions now both through FRFR and a power amp. They are still too far away for me to take the place of a real amp.
If you are patient you can find a used Wizard for 3K or so..the MCI can get down to 2400 and the MCII/MTL can be had for 3500. But they don't pop up too often. I'd highly recommend keeping the C+ and saving/biding your time for a new or used Wizard. With those two amps you'd have everything covered high gain wise, IMO.

I value this advice and am back on the thought of trying to find a Wizard to pair up with the IIC+. There is a MCI in the classifieds here, so I just sent a PM to see if I can make something happen on that one.

I just started taking notice of the MI Audio amps and am getting quite intrigued by them. The Beta is an insane a metal machine and seems like it could cover that territory as good as the OG IIC+ and ++ can. Might not be as good of an option for anything below metal though; tough to tell. They have the Ironhorse or the Revelation MKII models for that though, and you can basically buy 2 MI Audio amps for the price of 1 IIC+ w/ GEQ or a new Wizard. Kind of impossible to tell how much secret sauce might be missing from them compared to the bench marks, but Reeza did call the Beta a IIC++ killer in his response to my question on his youtube video (link below).

I thought it was worthwhile pointing this out for others to look into as well.

 

[Beyond Black]

Don't fool yourself into thinking ANYTHING from the AXE will take the place or sound that much like the real deal. Those Kemper/AXE FX are cool units that are great for gigs, recording etc but they just don't sound that similar to my ears; I've had a few versions now both through FRFR and a power amp. They are still too far away for me to take the place of a real amp.
If you are patient you can find a used Wizard for 3K or so..the MCI can get down to 2400 and the MCII/MTL can be had for 3500. But they don't pop up too often. I'd highly recommend keeping the C+ and saving/biding your time for a new or used Wizard. With those two amps you'd have everything covered high gain wise, IMO.

I value this advice and am back on the thought of trying to find a Wizard to pair up with the IIC+. There is a MCI in the classifieds here, so I just sent a PM to see if I can make something happen on that one.

I just started taking notice of the MI Audio amps and am getting quite intrigued by them. The Beta is an insane a metal machine and seems like it could cover that territory as good as the OG IIC+ and ++ can. Might not be as good of an option for anything below metal though; tough to tell. They have the Ironhorse or the Revelation MKII models for that though, and you can basically buy 2 MI Audio amps for the price of 1 IIC+ w/ GEQ or a new Wizard. Kind of impossible to tell how much secret sauce might be missing from them compared to the bench marks, but Reeza did call the Beta a IIC++ killer in his response to my question on his youtube video (link below).

I thought it was worthwhile pointing this out for others to look into as well.

A 2C++ killer? Doubtful...It may be a killer amp, but there’s not an amp in existence that’s a 2C++ killer. Reza’s probably just hyping it up to increase the value of it’s imminent future sale.