Mesa Oversize vs. Mesa Traditional vs. Bogner (4x12s)

[D-Rock]

Next question will be slant...or straight.

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

Thanks for the replies!

I'm interested in a straight cab. I'm still quite torn. I want to go with the Bogner, three minutes later the Mesa...ahhh!

Would a Bogner 4x12 really have issues cutting it in a band mix?

-Joe

 

[Code001]

Thanks for the replies!

I'm interested in a straight cab. I'm still quite torn. I want to go with the Bogner, three minutes later the Mesa...ahhh!

Would a Bogner 4x12 really have issues cutting it in a band mix?

-Joe

In the end, I think you'll be happy with either cab.

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

Thanks for the replies!

I'm interested in a straight cab. I'm still quite torn. I want to go with the Bogner, three minutes later the Mesa...ahhh!

Would a Bogner 4x12 really have issues cutting it in a band mix?

-Joe

In the end, I think you'll be happy with either cab.

Yeah, most likely dude. Thanks for all replies everyone.

-Joe

 

[UltraGary]

After just getting in from one of those nights where I felt like I had the Tone-Of-Gods in my hands, I need to get a vote in for the over-sized Mesa 4x12.

I guess it depends a lot on your amp........but I've always felt Mesas have a LOT of 'edge' to them, and I think the over-sized 4x12 compliments it purrrrfectly.

On boards like these. the 2 adjectives describing regular-vs-oversized are pretty rough on the oversized. Ask any guitarist is he'd rather sound "Tight" or "Loose" and you know what their answer will be. This gives the over-sized 4x12 a bad rap. That said, the over-sized really fills out the tone of many aggressive/edgy amps.

Ergonomically, I'm doing just about everything all wrong (Trem-O-Verb combo + Mesa over-sized 4x12 = Heavy + Heavy!).....but in the trio I play in, it's great to have the amp's aggressive edgyness through the bigger 4x12 (I have a regular 4x12 too). It lets me go to bed knowing my tone filled up more than my 3rd of the room gracefully. (more-so than my regular 4x12)

 

[Moshaholic]

I have had 5-6 bogners 4x12's with v30's and Uber configs...

I own 3 mesa's right now both traditional and oversize...

The Mesa's are much better IMO... tighter, not so harsh on the high end... I sold a bogner 4x12 to a guy who used a 5150 just a few months ago and he hated it and sold it like 2-3 weeks later...

I also foud it harder to hear the bogner straight cabs with out being right in front of them live because of how they are designed with baffle set far back and the large top lip over hang... soory thats the best I can describe what I mean.... I use mesa and VHT 4x12's blended together live and it is the best sound I have ever had....

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

After just getting in from one of those nights where I felt like I had the Tone-Of-Gods in my hands, I need to get a vote in for the over-sized Mesa 4x12.

I guess it depends a lot on your amp........but I've always felt Mesas have a LOT of 'edge' to them, and I think the over-sized 4x12 compliments it purrrrfectly.

On boards like these. the 2 adjectives describing regular-vs-oversized are pretty rough on the oversized. Ask any guitarist is he'd rather sound "Tight" or "Loose" and you know what their answer will be. This gives the over-sized 4x12 a bad rap. That said, the over-sized really fills out the tone of many aggressive/edgy amps.

Ergonomically, I'm doing just about everything all wrong (Trem-O-Verb combo + Mesa over-sized 4x12 = Heavy + Heavy!).....but in the trio I play in, it's great to have the amp's aggressive edgyness through the bigger 4x12 (I have a regular 4x12 too). It lets me go to bed knowing my tone filled up more than my 3rd of the room gracefully. (more-so than my regular 4x12)

Thanks for the reply. Even though the traditional is "tighter", would you say the OS is still tight in it's own sense?

-Joe

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

I have had 5-6 bogners 4x12's with v30's and Uber configs...

I own 3 mesa's right now both traditional and oversize...

The Mesa's are much better IMO... tighter, not so harsh on the high end... I sold a bogner 4x12 to a guy who used a 5150 just a few months ago and he hated it and sold it like 2-3 weeks later...

I also foud it harder to hear the bogner straight cabs with out being right in front of them live because of how they are designed with baffle set far back and the large top lip over hang... soory thats the best I can describe what I mean.... I use mesa and VHT 4x12's blended together live and it is the best sound I have ever had....

cool man. Haven't seen you around much here lately! Which one would you say you dig more with the 6505s? Traditional or os?

thanks

-Joe

 

[Moshaholic]

I have had 5-6 bogners 4x12's with v30's and Uber configs...

I own 3 mesa's right now both traditional and oversize...

The Mesa's are much better IMO... tighter, not so harsh on the high end... I sold a bogner 4x12 to a guy who used a 5150 just a few months ago and he hated it and sold it like 2-3 weeks later...

I also foud it harder to hear the bogner straight cabs with out being right in front of them live because of how they are designed with baffle set far back and the large top lip over hang... soory thats the best I can describe what I mean.... I use mesa and VHT 4x12's blended together live and it is the best sound I have ever had....

cool man. Haven't seen you around much here lately! Which one would you say you dig more with the 6505s? Traditional or os?

thanks

-Joe

The bogners have a more tradional v-30 sound and the mesa's are very nice in the mids and feel more comtemporary to me... The smaller mesa cab is pretty killer but has a little more boxy kinda thing going on vs. the os cabs... I perfer my os kabs alot... in the "live JVM vid" in my sig im using a 6505+ with a mesa traditional and a JVM with a VHT...

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

I have had 5-6 bogners 4x12's with v30's and Uber configs...

I own 3 mesa's right now both traditional and oversize...

The Mesa's are much better IMO... tighter, not so harsh on the high end... I sold a bogner 4x12 to a guy who used a 5150 just a few months ago and he hated it and sold it like 2-3 weeks later...

I also foud it harder to hear the bogner straight cabs with out being right in front of them live because of how they are designed with baffle set far back and the large top lip over hang... soory thats the best I can describe what I mean.... I use mesa and VHT 4x12's blended together live and it is the best sound I have ever had....

cool man. Haven't seen you around much here lately! Which one would you say you dig more with the 6505s? Traditional or os?

thanks

-Joe

The bogners have a more tradional v-30 sound and the mesa's are very nice in the mids and feel more comtemporary to me... The smaller mesa cab is pretty killer but has a little more boxy kinda thing going on vs. the os cabs... I perfer my os kabs alot... in the "live JVM vid" in my sig im using a 6505+ with a mesa traditional and a JVM with a VHT...

Nice, thanks for the help man.

-Joe

 

[UltraGary]

(Quote)"Thanks for the reply. Even though the traditional is "tighter", would you say the OS is still tight in it's own sense?"


The over-sized is absolutely tight. I'm not sure, but I think I can alter most anyone's heart rate with different picking & muting attacks!

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

(Quote)"Thanks for the reply. Even though the traditional is "tighter", would you say the OS is still tight in it's own sense?"


The over-sized is absolutely tight. I'm not sure, but I think I can alter most anyone's heart rate with different picking & muting attacks!

Hehe awesome. As long as it's not a flubby low end, I couldn't really care less.

-Joe

 

[rickenbacker198]

(Quote)"Thanks for the reply. Even though the traditional is "tighter", would you say the OS is still tight in it's own sense?"


The over-sized is absolutely tight. I'm not sure, but I think I can alter most anyone's heart rate with different picking & muting attacks!

Hehe awesome. As long as it's not a flubby low end, I couldn't really care less.

-Joe

Yah I have to agree with this; Mesa = palm mute heaven.

 

[meanstreet]

Thanks for the replies!

I'm interested in a straight cab. I'm still quite torn. I want to go with the Bogner, three minutes later the Mesa...ahhh!

Would a Bogner 4x12 really have issues cutting it in a band mix?

-Joe

My Bogner has NEVER had a problem cutting in a band mix. Best cab I've ever personally played, but in fairness I haven't done a side by side with the Mesa Traditional. To suggest the Bogner doesn't cut in a band mix is ridiculous.

 

[rickenbacker198]

My Bogner has NEVER had a problem cutting in a band mix. Best cab I've ever personally played, but in fairness I haven't done a side by side with the Mesa Traditional. To suggest the Bogner doesn't cut in a band mix is ridiculous.[/quote]

The v30 bogner does cut well compared to most (depending on speakers) but not like the mesa.
You can hear a lot more articulation with the mesa.

 

[shredhead666]

I'm trying hard to decide on which one to buy. I'll be using it with a 5150. Something tells me the Bogner and Mesa traditional will sound pretty similar. The oversized is tempting because of it's massive low end, but I hear it's a bit "scooped" sounding.

Is it really drastically different from the traditional? Thoughts?

-Joe

The Bogner and Mesa cabs sound very different. Even though they both use V30 speakers, the Bogner sounds much nicer IMO.

 

[fearhk213]

Thanks for the replies!

I'm interested in a straight cab. I'm still quite torn. I want to go with the Bogner, three minutes later the Mesa...ahhh!

Would a Bogner 4x12 really have issues cutting it in a band mix?

-Joe

My Bogner has NEVER had a problem cutting in a band mix. Best cab I've ever personally played, but in fairness I haven't done a side by side with the Mesa Traditional. To suggest the Bogner doesn't cut in a band mix is ridiculous.

+1 You won't have any problems with it cutting.

Another big factor to consider that hasn't been brought up is ohms. Both Mesa cabs are 8 ohms, but the Bogner is 16 (Uberkab is 8). As far as I know there is no inherent differences in sound between different ohm speakers of the same make, but there is when your amp runs at different ohms. If you run your head at 8 ohms on an 8 ohm cab and then turn around and run it at 16 ohms on a 16 ohm cab, you better believe they'll be differences. The only way to get a real good comparison is to have them wired up the same so you can compare you amp running at 8 ohms (or 16) on both cabs. One of my amps rips on 16 ohms, but sounds kinda weak at 8 ohms. Another is tight and punchy at 8 ohms, but gets a little too mushy at 16 ohms. I don't think the Bogner is the "end all be all" of cabs, but a couple of things said were very contrary to my findings so I wonder if the ohm thing is a factor...

 

[thegame]

I also foud it harder to hear the bogner straight cabs with out being right in front of them live because of how they are designed with baffle set far back and the large top lip over hang... soory thats the best I can describe what I mean.... ..

I would think the Mesa trad. would be harder to hear since its speakers don't point up at all. The Bogner's baffle is angled back, projecting the sound upwards a bit. In theory the Bogner should be easier to hear, but if the Mesa has a more cutting sound, then that explains it.

I see the VHT deliverance cab's baffle does not angle back either. I'm very tall and it seems speakers not pointing up at all would make it hard for me to hear anything. I could be wrong though.

 

[thegame]

[
Another big factor to consider that hasn't been brought up is ohms. Both Mesa cabs are 8 ohms, but the Bogner is 16 (Uberkab is 8). As far as I know there is no inherent differences in sound between different ohm speakers of the same make, but there is when your amp runs at different ohms. If you run your head at 8 ohms on an 8 ohm cab and then turn around and run it at 16 ohms on a 16 ohm cab, you better believe they'll be differences. The only way to get a real good comparison is to have them wired up the same so you can compare you amp running at 8 ohms (or 16) on both cabs. One of my amps rips on 16 ohms, but sounds kinda weak at 8 ohms. Another is tight and punchy at 8 ohms, but gets a little too mushy at 16 ohms. I don't think the Bogner is the "end all be all" of cabs, but a couple of things said were very contrary to my findings so I wonder if the ohm thing is a factor...

8 ohm speakers have a slightly thicker voice coil wire (or something like that) than 16 ohm speakers. Different construction = different tone, albeit not much in this case. 8 ohm speakers have a slightly lower voicing than their 16 ohm counterparts to my ear. Celestion makes Mesa's V30s to Mesa's specs, a small change to the V30 recipe.

I do agree certain amps sound much better at certain ohm settings.

 

[fearhk213]

[
Another big factor to consider that hasn't been brought up is ohms. Both Mesa cabs are 8 ohms, but the Bogner is 16 (Uberkab is 8). As far as I know there is no inherent differences in sound between different ohm speakers of the same make, but there is when your amp runs at different ohms. If you run your head at 8 ohms on an 8 ohm cab and then turn around and run it at 16 ohms on a 16 ohm cab, you better believe they'll be differences. The only way to get a real good comparison is to have them wired up the same so you can compare you amp running at 8 ohms (or 16) on both cabs. One of my amps rips on 16 ohms, but sounds kinda weak at 8 ohms. Another is tight and punchy at 8 ohms, but gets a little too mushy at 16 ohms. I don't think the Bogner is the "end all be all" of cabs, but a couple of things said were very contrary to my findings so I wonder if the ohm thing is a factor...

8 ohm speakers have a slightly thicker voice coil wire (or something like that) than 16 ohm speakers. Different construction = different tone, albeit not much in this case. 8 ohm speakers have a slightly lower voicing than their 16 ohm counterparts to my ear. Celestion makes Mesa's V30s to Mesa's specs, a small change to the V30 recipe.

I do agree certain amps sound much better at certain ohm settings.

Didn't know about the thicker voice coil wire.