Metroplex vs. Wizard MCII

[drspearing]

I had a friend that bought a Metro-Plex and he let me hang on to it for a few days. I had a chance to A/B it with my MCII. YMMV, IMHO etc.

The MP head shell is bigger than the MCII. No effect on tone but in comparison I like the smaller head shell of the MCII. The two handles on each end of the MCII prevents the amp from twisting because of the lop-sided weight distribution in big amps. The MP did this twist. I'm not sure which handle setup I prefer.

My buddy was the 3rd owner of this particular MP (#18). He actually found a thread on a Canadian guitar forum where the original owner hated the amp and sold it to another guy who sent it back to George. When George had the amp he ended up putting in two internal pots, one for "Highs" and one for "Lows". What was interesting is that the "Highs" and "Lows" locations were silk screened into the PCB. I'm not sure what is in these two locations if the pots aren't there. The original owner hated the amp because it sounded buzzy and compressed. When I first played the amp, not having heard anything about the original owners thoughts, I pretty much felt the same way. To me it felt as if the bias was set too low. So, I asked my buddy if I could check it and he let me. It was biased a 6 (six) mA. So, I pulled it up to about a 36 mA average as the tubes were not matched very well. The lowest read 31 mA and the highest read 41 mA. Re biasing the amp helped a good deal to remove a little of the compressed feel and the amp did seem to punch a little more. I did not mess with the two pots so I can't say if they were set to the values of a "stock" MP.

The MP was running RI Mullards all around. My MCII has Chinese pres and TungSol EL34B power tubes. I'm not sold on the TungSols but that's a different story. My point in this is that some of the differences "could" be due to the different tubes.

Based on the two amps I had in my possession, here is what I noticed:

I think the mids are voiced a little different between the two amps. I don't know if I can explain it other than to say the MP mids have a more vintage Marshall flavor. Again, I think this could be a tube thing.

The Wizard has more of an immediate attack. Interestingly, there is a post on TGP comparing a Friedman BE100 to a MP and George responds to his relationship to Dave:

"If there is any competition between us, it's very friendly. The fact is, his reference plexi sounds different than my reference plexi. So, we are shooting at different targets! His ears prefer a more aggressive, modern sound IMO. Dave needs to have the attack and immediate response in his amps. Where I prefer a more vintage blossom. What calls "fuzzy" and "smeared". LOL"

I would say that in comparison to my MCII, the MP I played indeed sounded a little fuzzy and smeared with a slower attack. That isn't necessarily bad because I could dial that amp in to sound very good for certain things. The MP seemed to have a resonating low end about it. The way to approximate that with my MCII was to turn the Contour down to about 3 or 4 (I usually have it completely out of the circuit by having it turned up to 10) and then turning the Presence and Lead bright up.

The MCII does have more gain and the gain is more usable. By that I mean when I cranked the gain up to about 3:00 on the MP it really started to compress a lot, and in my opinion, not in a good way. Trying to set the Plexi channel on the MP to a usable clean and using the the Boost mode for a gain channel did not work as turning the Boost gain up to get enough out of it was unusable to me.

I think the loops are both good and both switchable. However, the MCII has a Send and Return level that can be used as an overall master which is nice.

The tone controls on both amps are very responsive. The MCII has a few more options for tone shaping that are usable. Both amps are very responsive to guitar volume changes and picking dynamics.

So in conclusion, for me and what I need out of an amp, I prefer the MCII by a pretty good margin. With it I have a Clean and Gain channel (both with boosts) where I felt the MP could get one or the other but not both with the same settings. So, for the added flexibility, PTP construction and usable gain the MCII is well worth the extra coin. I can see why others would think differently so I guess it boils down to what you need.

BTW, Lance did some great videos of the MP and those videos made me want to try a MP. I think those videos are pretty accurate. However, his videos of the MCII are not at all representative of that amp. If that is all I had to go by I would be scoffing at the thought of paying that much for a Wizard.

Again, IMHO, YMMV etc.

 

[lespaul6]

comprehensive review Dan.. thanks for that

 

[bbaug14]

I don't necessarily disagree with everything stated, but after owning both, I prefer the Metro-Plex. To me, the Wizard was much too modern for my tastes after owning it for a long time. Awesome for hard rock and Metal, but not so much for classic rock and vintage tones with lots of harmonic content. The feel is awesome though. I like the classic sag the Metro-Plex has too though. The Wizard also hits like a Mack truck. No amp has ever compared in this department.

Also, the Metro-Plex with the updated 66 mode is a different beast than described above. I sort of agree that in Mod mode or even 68 mode (to a lesser degree), using the boost as another channel doesn't work well. That being said, the 66 mode works perfect with the boost to go from early Malcolm to Angus Live, and can be dialed in for awesome JTM cleans. Also, the boost circuit has internal trimmers for bass and treble, so if you can use a screw driver, you could tweak it to taste.

One thing about the Wizard I didn't like is the metallic character of the tone. The combination of metal films, orange drops, and a MM OT gave the tone a sterile sound to my ears. Some call this the Hiwatt character. Also, if you aren't a fan of diode clipping, the boosts aren't going to do you much good on that amp, which also was the case for me. I'd argue my ears prefer vintage Marshall tones.

With the bright pots and the contour, you definitely have a lot of tonal flexibility with the Wizard to get where you want to be. You can't dial out the Hiwatt character or the modern tone, but if that's what you're after, it's hard to beat the Wizard.

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

I find the rhythm channel on the Wizard to do classic tones very well. The MCII is a killer amp, probably right that it can cover more modern tones, but the clean channel does a fine job of AC/DC or Led Zep tones. Contour knob is key in reducing the "stiffer" feel of the amp, i keep the contour around 9:00 on mine, and the presence around 10:00. It has plenty of harminic overtones and takes a boost very well. I don't run the gain that high though, I keep mine at 12:00 ish.

 

[glip22]

FWIW A real Plexi is supposedly stiff. I had a Helios next to the MCII and it was extremely stiff. I plugged in the Wizard and the feel was much better, not that the Helios was not good.

 

[lespaul6]

The combination of metal films, orange drops, and Mercury transformers are what makes my Wizard sound fantastic... especially for ac/dc rhythms- if you want them. Just goes to show that everyone hears different!

Most of the critics over at the gearpage never run their amps at volume, so if your just playing through the preamp you do not have the full sound of the power section rounding out the frequencies.... couple that with the bias that some develop over there regarding component choices and transformer types- I have to laugh sometimes. There are bubbles that exist that we must break out of~

 

[bbaug14]

The combination of metal films, orange drops, and Mercury transformers are what makes my Wizard sound fantastic... especially for ac/dc rhythms- if you want them. Just goes to show that everyone hears different!

Most of the critics over at the gearpage never run their amps at volume, so if your just playing through the preamp you do not have the full sound of the power section rounding out the frequencies.... couple that with the bias that some develop over there regarding component choices and transformer types- I have to laugh sometimes. There are bubbles that exist that we must break out of~

I wouldn't say it's a bias. Orange drops are polypropylene which tend to give a clearer more hi-fi sound. Typically used in Fender applications. Metal films also have a more sterile tone when compared to carbon film/comp due to the makeup (some would argue). Mercury transformers in my experience also have a clearer tonal effect when compared to the counterparts. It's not my bias, its just how they sound. Add them to a Jubilee circuit with some nice tweaks and you have the Wizard. Fantastic amp of course, but I wouldn't say it sounds just like a Plexi or a Marshall.

Personally, I prefer the more traditional Marshall tones of the late 60s and early 70s. Polyester caps, carbon comp/films, etc. To each their own of course.

 

[lespaul6]

Yes, Ive heard all of those arguments over there and I understand that some prefer to have components that are as close as possible to what was done in the 60's.
I have read that Marshall used what was cheap and available at the time and that much or the lore surrounding "carbon" and mustards etc can be seen as mythology built up over time by collectors and some builders who want to produce an exact replica...
I like the idea of having newer more advanced components that do not turn with age or smear the original signal. Its just personal preference like you said... one is certainly not superior to the other despite objective differences on paper and observed by ear. Soldano, Dumble, Fender, mesa and many companies use these components and Metro was originally using mercury transformers for his builds.

 

[drspearing]

Speaking of caps and transformers...

I have read on the Sozo cap web site that Sozo caps are a little blurry sounding until broken in and I "thought" I saw Sozos in the MP. Rick told me that my Wizard would sweeten up over time as the transformer got magnetized and over the years I think it has. If any of this is truly the case than "maybe" the MP I played hadn't "broken-in" yet while my Wizard had. Who really knows.

Also, not to put words in anyone's mouth, but it's interesting that George "implies" a couple things in the quote I copied from TGP.

1. That his plexi and Dave's plexi sound different. I think we can all agree that they do due to Marshall not being consistent with the parts they used over that time period. Dave's has a more immediate attack and response and George's has more sag. So, which one is "more" vintage or classic Marshall? I guess there is no wrong answer but rather whichever you personally prefer. I know I prefer a more immediate attack and response which is why I play the Wizard. However, immediate attack and response by itself can not make an amp be more or less classic or vintage Marshall.

2. George seem to imply that Dave Friedman thinks the vintage blossom George has designed into the MP is "fuzzy" and "smeared". Once again, which one is more vintage and classic Marshall? I don't know.

Bottom line is that vintage and classic Marshall tone and feel is a rather broad thing. We all find an amp that we feel gets us close to what we hear in our head as classic Marshall (or not) and fine tune from there with tubes, speakers, pickups etc.

 

[glip22]

If you want a Marshall, get the MP or get a vintage Marshall. If you want a Wizard get a Wizard. For higher gain Sozo caps are not good. Bbaug plays Classic Rock so he is good to go.

 

[halebox]

I own Bbaug's MCII. Its great at what it does. If I was being picky I wish there was an footswitchable in between sound from rhythm to lead. Yes you can turn down lead gain for this but then your high gain is not an option as the boost is not super drastic. The rhythm with boost doesnt quite get to where I want it perhaps with greenbacks which I have not tried. I guess I could have that channel modded a little but may lose the clean which is very very good. I still can get by with all the options. Loop is great too. Im guessing the MP lives in this in between zone

 

[bbaug14]

FYI - on the loop of the Wizard try a 12AU7 instead of a 12AX7. It makes the loop far more transparent.

 

[thegame]

Rick is a fan of vintage Marshalls AND Hiwatts. No surprise that Wizards sound very much like a blend between the two. Wizard = Marshall-ish midrange crunch coupled with a Hiwatt's extended bandwidth (higher high freqs & deeper lows).

 

[peterc52]

I had both a MCII 100 watt and a MC 50 watt. The 50 watt was much sweeter. I liked it a lot. But for me it was a one channel amp, the clean channels on both weren't for me.

Didn't like the 100 watt too much.

I live in Denmark so taxes are very high but i'm considering a Metro-Plex very much. Have a feeling it would fit me better - love all the clips I've heard.

 

[lespaul6]

I had both a MCII 100 watt and a MC 50 watt. The 50 watt was much sweeter. I liked it a lot. But for me it was a one channel amp, the clean channels on both weren't for me.

Didn't like the 100 watt too much.

I live in Denmark so taxes are very high but i'm considering a Metro-Plex very much. Have a feeling it would fit me better - love all the clips I've heard.

I remember when you got the MC 50... you have the 1960TV cab right? Do you remember what transformer you had in the 50?

 

[Greazygeo]

FWIW A real Plexi is supposedly stiff. I had a Helios next to the MCII and it was extremely stiff. I plugged in the Wizard and the feel was much better, not that the Helios was not good.

The two real plexis I have are not stiff at all. Very mushy stock, I had to put a lot more filtering to get mine where they would work for me.

Did an experiment with the 69, swapped out the mustards for orange drops. Not enough difference to worry about. A bit clearer on chords was what I noticed.

Still have my custom Wizard that Rick built me in 05. It's settled in pretty nice..

 

[peterc52]

I had both a MCII 100 watt and a MC 50 watt. The 50 watt was much sweeter. I liked it a lot. But for me it was a one channel amp, the clean channels on both weren't for me.

Didn't like the 100 watt too much.

I live in Denmark so taxes are very high but i'm considering a Metro-Plex very much. Have a feeling it would fit me better - love all the clips I've heard.

I remember when you got the MC 50... you have the 1960TV cab right? Do you remember what transformer you had in the 50?

C trannys if I remember correctly. The vintage ones

 

[scottosan]

I would like to point about that when talking about vintage amps and why they would sound different, there are 2 things that will greatly effect the variance in tone.

1. Many of these amps aside fro being old have understandably seen alot of use. As a result the the values of the components have drifted and while the parts may still be performing, the aggregated drift of of all of the parts together certainly are a large contributor to variance in tone.

2.When play non-master volume amps, we all know that most of you gain comes from the power tubes. Like the rating on alot of tube vendors products imply you can buy lower rated tubes that will feel softer and higher rates tubes that sound stiff. I had some Sylvania 6CA7's that would break up immediately in my JMP. Throw in some average rated SED's and it was stiff as a board.

 

[lespaul6]

FWIW A real Plexi is supposedly stiff. I had a Helios next to the MCII and it was extremely stiff. I plugged in the Wizard and the feel was much better, not that the Helios was not good.

The two real plexis I have are not stiff at all. Very mushy stock, I had to put a lot more filtering to get mine where they would work for me.

Did an experiment with the 69, swapped out the mustards for orange drops. Not enough difference to worry about. A bit clearer on chords was what I noticed.

Still have my custom Wizard that Rick built me in 05. It's settled in pretty nice..

Agree with this

 

[lespaul6]

I had both a MCII 100 watt and a MC 50 watt. The 50 watt was much sweeter. I liked it a lot. But for me it was a one channel amp, the clean channels on both weren't for me.

Didn't like the 100 watt too much.

I live in Denmark so taxes are very high but i'm considering a Metro-Plex very much. Have a feeling it would fit me better - love all the clips I've heard.

I remember when you got the MC 50... you have the 1960TV cab right? Do you remember what transformer you had in the 50?

C trannys if I remember correctly. The vintage ones

I figured it was the C... they are nasty as shit- I love mine.