Mike Soldano talks about EVH's Marshall

[duesentrieb]

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 470pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
- 33k/556pF tone stack combo
- 47k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- 47pf on PI

- Stock Output Transformer: 1.5 inch Dagnall ….

Next, when John Suhr saw the amp in 1991, it had a fat cap electrolyte ( probably 470uf ) in parallel with the stock .68uf on V2. So, since 1991 is a long time after 1977 …, take away the fat cap on v2 that John Suhr saw in 1991, and we get this:

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 500pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
- 33k/500pF tone stack combo
- 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- .022uf output couplers
- 47pf on PI

. . .

Tolerances of parts were often >20% esp. in the 60s and 70s.
Example: My '70 Superbass had pots rated 1M with measured values of 1.5M to 2M --> darker sound with more gain.

 

[H Golf Sport]

Here is an email a former RT member shared with me and it discusses the "insignificant" little differences in Ed's amp that the techs that have been inside it but don't want to talk about. They don't want to talk about it, but they include it on their "stock" plexi type builds. I will not divulge the info as I promised this member I wouldn't but the idea of EVH's stock plexi and the techs that have looked at it, well, you will get the idea. Someone mentioned that the Friedman Metro and the Suhr SL68 both get that early VH tone. Hmmm, wonder why? Just a stock plexi, nothing to see here, move along.

And do I blame those guys? Heck no! I would do the same thing if I had been entrusted to look inside that amp. And rupe mentioned earlier that Jose wasn't very forthcoming when John Suhr asked him some questions in the past. How weird. We all know these amp gurus love to openly share their ideas and secrets with other techs as often as possible.

"BTW, Dave Frieman dropped some knowledge on me that I want to share with you, but I really, really, really need you to keep this to yourself. Ed's main Plexi had a __________. This doesn't seem like much, since all it's really doing is ________, as you can ___________ over instead of the standard _____________________ .

However, what it does more than just ________ is to __________. I don't really understand why it does, but it allows you to ________________ without ____________.

If you do this to your Peacemaker or Super Leads, you will hear a HUGE difference in tone; it's that last little 10% of the early VH tone that you hear in the Metro-Friedman and the Suhr SL-68 that no one else is coming close to, which I suspect is why he wants it kept on the down-low. I don't want to bite the hand thats been feeding me, so to speak, so I appreciate your descretion."

 

[Rogue]

If the amp had a Jose master chances are it had other Jose mods that did not alter the chassis in any way, If the gain stage was cascaded I believe it would add gain. There was always something I heard in Ed's tone, mostly in the highs that just sound like a mild diode clipping. Really, no one knows but Ed and he's not talking. The only facts I know are Jose was his tech. Jose was working on an amp or something with Ed and that Marshall has a pot hole in the back. The rest.... Who knows.


Here’s the summary of EVH’s # 1 Marshall SuperLead ( as well as the possible spec changes to the Amp during its life span ) ….

Eddie’s Plexi was # 12301 and below is the spec from serial # 12267 Plexi ( 34 ‘units’ prior to Eddie’s ) ….

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 470pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
- 33k/556pF tone stack combo
- 47k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- 47pf on PI

- Stock Output Transformer: 1.5 inch Dagnall ….

Next, when John Suhr saw the amp in 1991, it had a fat cap electrolyte ( probably 470uf ) in parallel with the stock .68uf on V2. So, since 1991 is a long time after 1977 …, take away the fat cap on v2 that John Suhr saw in 1991, and we get this:

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 500pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
- 33k/500pF tone stack combo
- 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- .022uf output couplers
- 47pf on PI

At this point, the amp probably still had the stock Dagnall 1.5 inch output transformer …, although there’s absolutely no way to confirm that.

Transformer notwithstanding …, this is most likely the spec that the amp had when Eddie ( & Co ) recorded VH I …. And is also most likely prior to any supposed “modding” by Jose Arredondo… !

But in between VH I & VH II it’s generally accepted that Eddie’s tone changed ever so slightly. I can’t speak for everyone, but to me, it seems just a tad warmer …? And based on what I’ve read, this just might account for Jose’s involvement ?

It’s rumoured that if someone came in to his shop and complained that their amp was too bright, one of the first things he did was the “fat cap mod” ( cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf ), which is what John Suhr saw when he worked on the amp in 1991.

Also, keep in mind that before John Suhr saw the amp, it may have already been to Steve Fryette to have the output transformer changed …,

…, “probably” to a VHT ( or maybe a Drake ) 2.0 inch output transformer ….

O.K., you’ve probably also noticed that there are a couple of other small differences:

1.) a 500pF mixer bypass cap instead of a 470pF mixer bypass cap
2.) 33k/500pF tone stack combo instead of a 33k/556pF tone stack combo
3.) 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap instead of a 47k NFB, and …,
4.) 022uf output couplers that the earlier Plexi doesn’t seem to mention ….

These differences are most likely supported by Steve Fryette, John Suhr and Dave Friedman who all commented that the Amp was stock, but that “some” of the values were different than other Plexi’s from the same general date(s). For a short time there was even an argument over John Suhr’s statement that “most” of the solder joints were in fact un-tampered with ….

Fryette, Suhr and Friedman all seem to agree that these are just standard Marshall production variations. In fact, some people ( although not Fryette, Suhr or Friedman ) have even referred to the amp as “transitional” from the Plexi, to the Metal Panel era(s) ….

And keep in mind that both the 470uf and .68uf were replaced by a 330uf electrolyte at some point too. But, I don’t t list them in any of the specs above or below, because it’s generally accepted that they have now been changed back to what’s listed. And since it can’t be confirmed that he ever recorded with that configuration I left it out !

One other thing that is known and accepted is that Eddie sent the amp to Holland to Peter Van Wheelden to have it reconditioned. When that was being done, everything was re-wired with Teflon wire. Again, that’s all been reversed now by stripping another Plexi with a close serial number of all its original wiring and using it to once again re-wire Eddie’s # 1 …. That’s why none of that is listed in the specs either !

Finally, mixing back in in the John Suhr ( v2 fat cap and other mods ) we get this from Dave Friedman ( the most recent of the truly reliable source ) to have seen and worked on the amp.

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 500pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf
- 33k/500pF tone stack combo
- 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- .022uf output couplers
- 47pf on PI

Drake 2.0 inch output transformer ….

Dave also is a little more specific on “the filtering”, which is:

2) 100uf's f & t in series mains
2) 32uf's f & t in series screens
1) 100uf lcr phase inverter
1) Dual 33 x 33 f & t preamp

* Dave’s last comments are to relate a quote from both Eddie and Matt Bruck, that finally the amp now sounds “like it did, back in the day” !

That's an interesting summary. Nothing that is going to add a great deal of gain, much less than cascading the second stage, which no one has suggested happened. An addition of a MV wouldn't change the gain, or at least not add any gain.

I think it's entirely possible the amp made rounds with various changes here and there, but I think that tone is ultimately a cranked and variaced plexi, perhaps with some pedals and/or EP3 up front.

 

[glip22]

I am reading that same thread someone linked to above with Ralle from the Metro forum. Those guys are beyond fanatics. There is a great post from John Suhr late in that thread where he is talking about the same little tweak that I referenced in my above post but that it is mostly stock. I had never read about John's time with that amp either but yeah after reading it, I believe what he said.

I read that. It was good That was a good thread

 

[glip22]

If the amp had a Jose master chances are it had other Jose mods that did not alter the chassis in any way, If the gain stage was cascaded I believe it would add gain. There was always something I heard in Ed's tone, mostly in the highs that just sound like a mild diode clipping. Really, no one knows but Ed and he's not talking. The only facts I know are Jose was his tech. Jose was working on an amp or something with Ed and that Marshall has a pot hole in the back. The rest.... Who knows.


Here’s the summary of EVH’s # 1 Marshall SuperLead ( as well as the possible spec changes to the Amp during its life span ) ….

Eddie’s Plexi was # 12301 and below is the spec from serial # 12267 Plexi ( 34 ‘units’ prior to Eddie’s ) ….

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 470pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
- 33k/556pF tone stack combo
- 47k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- 47pf on PI

- Stock Output Transformer: 1.5 inch Dagnall ….

Next, when John Suhr saw the amp in 1991, it had a fat cap electrolyte ( probably 470uf ) in parallel with the stock .68uf on V2. So, since 1991 is a long time after 1977 …, take away the fat cap on v2 that John Suhr saw in 1991, and we get this:

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 500pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
- 33k/500pF tone stack combo
- 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- .022uf output couplers
- 47pf on PI

At this point, the amp probably still had the stock Dagnall 1.5 inch output transformer …, although there’s absolutely no way to confirm that.

Transformer notwithstanding …, this is most likely the spec that the amp had when Eddie ( & Co ) recorded VH I …. And is also most likely prior to any supposed “modding” by Jose Arredondo… !

But in between VH I & VH II it’s generally accepted that Eddie’s tone changed ever so slightly. I can’t speak for everyone, but to me, it seems just a tad warmer …? And based on what I’ve read, this just might account for Jose’s involvement ?

It’s rumoured that if someone came in to his shop and complained that their amp was too bright, one of the first things he did was the “fat cap mod” ( cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf ), which is what John Suhr saw when he worked on the amp in 1991.

Also, keep in mind that before John Suhr saw the amp, it may have already been to Steve Fryette to have the output transformer changed …,

…, “probably” to a VHT ( or maybe a Drake ) 2.0 inch output transformer ….

O.K., you’ve probably also noticed that there are a couple of other small differences:

1.) a 500pF mixer bypass cap instead of a 470pF mixer bypass cap
2.) 33k/500pF tone stack combo instead of a 33k/556pF tone stack combo
3.) 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap instead of a 47k NFB, and …,
4.) 022uf output couplers that the earlier Plexi doesn’t seem to mention ….

These differences are most likely supported by Steve Fryette, John Suhr and Dave Friedman who all commented that the Amp was stock, but that “some” of the values were different than other Plexi’s from the same general date(s). For a short time there was even an argument over John Suhr’s statement that “most” of the solder joints were in fact un-tampered with ….

Fryette, Suhr and Friedman all seem to agree that these are just standard Marshall production variations. In fact, some people ( although not Fryette, Suhr or Friedman ) have even referred to the amp as “transitional” from the Plexi, to the Metal Panel era(s) ….

And keep in mind that both the 470uf and .68uf were replaced by a 330uf electrolyte at some point too. But, I don’t t list them in any of the specs above or below, because it’s generally accepted that they have now been changed back to what’s listed. And since it can’t be confirmed that he ever recorded with that configuration I left it out !

One other thing that is known and accepted is that Eddie sent the amp to Holland to Peter Van Wheelden to have it reconditioned. When that was being done, everything was re-wired with Teflon wire. Again, that’s all been reversed now by stripping another Plexi with a close serial number of all its original wiring and using it to once again re-wire Eddie’s # 1 …. That’s why none of that is listed in the specs either !

Finally, mixing back in in the John Suhr ( v2 fat cap and other mods ) we get this from Dave Friedman ( the most recent of the truly reliable source ) to have seen and worked on the amp.

- split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
- all coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
- bright cap on volume pot 0,005uF
- 470k mixer resistors
- 500pF mixer bypass cap
- bypass cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf
- 33k/500pF tone stack combo
- 100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
- 220k bias splitter resistors
- 0.1uF cap on presence control
- .022uf output couplers
- 47pf on PI

Drake 2.0 inch output transformer ….

Dave also is a little more specific on “the filtering”, which is:

2) 100uf's f & t in series mains
2) 32uf's f & t in series screens
1) 100uf lcr phase inverter
1) Dual 33 x 33 f & t preamp

* Dave’s last comments are to relate a quote from both Eddie and Matt Bruck, that finally the amp now sounds “like it did, back in the day” !

That's an interesting summary. Nothing that is going to add a great deal of gain, much less than cascading the second stage, which no one has suggested happened. An addition of a MV wouldn't change the gain, or at least not add any gain.

I think it's entirely possible the amp made rounds with various changes here and there, but I think that tone is ultimately a cranked and variaced plexi, perhaps with some pedals and/or EP3 up front.

Exactly. Not necessarily add gain but alter the tone a little. I mentioned in an above post about a cascaded stage. If I am not mistaken I think Jose did do that Not necessarily in Ed's amp. The guy who posted the above was very much into this subject. As Chubtone posted fanatical. I find it interesting how Ed's tone has stuck with everyone since VH1 but nothing more. Kind of like seeing Jaws for the first time when you are young. Gets into your psych and becomes a paradigm amongst tone seekers. Stands over time

 

[p4vl]

Although all of his signature amps could kill cows at 20 paces, I never heard a huge amount of gain in Eddie's sound. Sounds more like clever eq-ing with lots of highs (at least for the albums).

Speaking of classic modded amps, if I ever run into James Hetfield's stolen Jose Arredondo modded Marshall in a pawn shop or music shop, James is not getting it back. What a wonderfully obnoxious sound.

 

[nitro]

Rupe let me help you out again(shows that your knowledge on this subject is bad).Edwards father took Ed to Jose shop in 72 that's when Jose and Ed's relationship stated.Edwards amp at the time had a unstable bias.Rupe help is here for you.

 

[loudgtr]

...yup, that little Soldano Hot Rod 25 sounds sweet indeed.

 

[rupe]

Rupe so what's your answer,definitely more gain on vh1 then the rest of the van halen catalog. Are you laughing and clapping because your not sure or don't know.who said the gain levels were massive,more then a stock Plexi that's for sure.I know you come here to learn which is fine.

I'm laughing at the comment about the speaker in your Nova. I'm clapping for the remainder of the post which mirrors my thoughts on the subject.

Listening to the iso tracks, there isn't near as much gain as some folks seem to think...which further cements the premise that the album sound likely has far more to do with the production and Ed's playing style than any amp.

I prefer VHII tone anyway...not sure why so many want to chase the VH1 tone as it's kind of harsh and nasty sounding IMO.

 

[rupe]

it was told to me the Frankie pickup was shorted out and sounded like a single coil!

That wasn't discovered until Tom Anderson worked on the guitar in the early/mid 80's...hard to say what it was like for the earlier recordings.

 

[thenine]

awesome thread. I'm with nitro though. No way VH1 sounded like a stock plexi to me. Maybe it was studio magic or his pedals out front, or the variac but when VH1 came out no one sounded like that. Also, if everyone agrees this amp went through "changes" caps, xfrmr's, holes and knobs in the back - then it is definitely not stock to me.

 

[nitro]

+1

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Someone posted here that "I'm the One" doesn't sound like a lot of gain... are you kidding me? That sounds like more gain than you'd get with a plexi unless you variac'd, re-amped, EQ'd, echo plex preamped, and possibly micro amped your signal. I'm sure Ed picked hard and aggresively as that is part of the sound but he for sure was squeezin out a bit more gain with some help somewhere.

 

[nitro]

Kapo +1....yes,just use your ears that's all it takes and experience .

 

[londaxe]

What stock Plexi can achieve the gain levels on Van halen 1(first album),none...Unless a mod or something in front.Look at all the guitarist in the 70s and 80s using marshall plexis did any of them have the gain that Edward did,no....

What are these "massive gain levels" on the first album you speak of?? The speakers in your Nova must be blown, 'cause I'm not hearing it. Listen to the isolated tracks; it sounds like a dimed plexi and it's actually kind of thin. I'm convinced the unique sound achieved on that record had more to do with the way it was recorded/produced. Listen to the early live bootlegs; the tone is killer but hardly "high-gain".

Listening to the iso tracks, there isn't near as much gain as some folks seem to think...which further cements the premise that the album sound likely has far more to do with the production and Ed's playing style than any amp.

I prefer VHII tone anyway...not sure why so many want to chase the VH1 tone as it's kind of harsh and nasty sounding IMO.

Definitely. Didn't Michael Anthony say that the tone in the room was actually really bright and thin, and not what everyone is making it out to be?

Sounds pretty different, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the same guitar/effects/amp setup

And fair warning has to be my favorite, with VH II as a close second.

The early Plexis ghost noted pretty badly when cranked because of the low filtering. A master volume can stop ghosting. Ed dimed his amps. Where are the ghost notes?

It probably varies from amp to amp. I've got an amp from the same era which doesn't really seem to ghost at all... at least not that I can hear. Filtering is the same as that spec that came from Friedman, but even lower in the preamp (20+20 I think)

Here is an email a former RT member shared with me and it discusses the "insignificant" little differences in Ed's amp that the techs that have been inside it but don't want to talk about. They don't want to talk about it, but they include it on their "stock" plexi type builds. I will not divulge the info as I promised this member I wouldn't but the idea of EVH's stock plexi and the techs that have looked at it, well, you will get the idea. Someone mentioned that the Friedman Metro and the Suhr SL68 both get that early VH tone. Hmmm, wonder why? Just a stock plexi, nothing to see here, move along.

And do I blame those guys? Heck no! I would do the same thing if I had been entrusted to look inside that amp. And rupe mentioned earlier that Jose wasn't very forthcoming when John Suhr asked him some questions in the past. How weird. We all know these amp gurus love to openly share their ideas and secrets with other techs as often as possible.

"BTW, Dave Frieman dropped some knowledge on me that I want to share with you, but I really, really, really need you to keep this to yourself. Ed's main Plexi had a __________. This doesn't seem like much, since all it's really doing is ________, as you can ___________ over instead of the standard _____________________ .

However, what it does more than just ________ is to __________. I don't really understand why it does, but it allows you to ________________ without ____________.

If you do this to your Peacemaker or Super Leads, you will hear a HUGE difference in tone; it's that last little 10% of the early VH tone that you hear in the Metro-Friedman and the Suhr SL-68 that no one else is coming close to, which I suspect is why he wants it kept on the down-low. I don't want to bite the hand thats been feeding me, so to speak, so I appreciate your descretion."

You're killing me

I think I know what it is at least...The one amp that got 95% of the way there without any pedals was a tweaked super lead spec Dave did several years back, which also had that feature (if I guessed correctly)

It wasn't just that extra thing on its own though. The entire amp needs to be setup the right way. The bias did need to be cranked all the way up with 6CA7s and the voltage lowered with a variac though. Didn't sound right otherwise.

 

[RG955TT]

Listen to the Warner Demo's and the demo's Gene Simmons did...pretty bright and thin if you ask me..certainly not quite the big huge sound of the first two or three records.

 

[nitro]

I believe Edward didn't use his gear on that demo.Gene Simmons flew the band(Van halen)to New York to make the demo.

 

[jerrydyer]

Listen to the Warner Demo's and the demo's Gene Simmons did...pretty bright and thin if you ask me..certainly not quite the big huge sound of the first two or three records.

Aces amps

 

[mixohoytian]

so whats' up w/ the vox head in that old pic? was he using it a distortion pedal?

also is the consensus here that a Jose master volume is the way to go?
I was thinking loading a plexi down then using a matrix etc... as the volume was the best way to go? I've pretty much concluded that regardless of mods, Eddie had a way to load the head down, then feed it into another head for lower volume

did anyone here actually see Eddie play in clubs? was he ridiculously loud?

 

[Mesa\Kramer]

Can't understaand why so many find it hard to believe that the amp was stock.

Here ya go.

Plexi + Variac = Brown Sound.

It's the Compression and Sag the Variac brings that makes the sound.
Only a Slight gain increase over a non- Variac'd dimed Plexi