Modern metal band tricks........

[Joeytpg]

....I've been kinda out of the metal world for the last 3 years or so..... I've noticed some of these newish metal bands have some nice riffs and the technical level seems up the roof (timing, speed, licks, etc) but makes me wonder, were's the human element?

The drums in the albums sound like drum machines and the guitars sound like they've been layered 40 times....... which got me thinking.....

how are these bands pulling it through live? like I said I haven't been to many metal concerts in the last years so that's why I'm asking.......

I know most of these drummers use triggers now, to the drums sound somewhat similar to the album, etc.....but still......aren't triggers considered "cheating" from the spectator standpoint?

 

[Code001]

Triggers aren't cheating.

 

[mrTapp]

I have seen Meshuggah a couple of times....

Tomas Hake the drummer...no need for drum machine

 

[glpg80]

explain your definition of modern metal?

on the subject of triggers, i know a few drummers who use them with electro-kits to warm up. i know others who used triggers attached to a chair to show it takes no talent to use. it all depends on the person behind the desk doing the mixing and the musician making the music. triggers are also like the hair bands around guitar necks for guitar players. they are a crutch to those who swear by them and the ones who do not use them only become better players in the studio and live anyway. Highly opinionated, but that's my personal opinion. YMMV.

as far as the songs go depending on what metal genre you speak of, most of them are only as hard as you make them out to be. Most are just more demanding of right hand technique of the verses or chorus rhythms. most are also easily learned with a metronome and the proper equipment - IE a guitar set to the same tuning and effort of the player.

solo wise, thats a different story.

BTW BOO used a kit mic'ed in the studio for this album:

 

[Code001]

BTW BOO used a kit mic'ed in the studio for this album:

Straight from Lee himself:

Whats up guys! Glad you are all digging the ustream. We have been trying so hard to get you guys anything we can regarding the new music, and as you can tell by some overheard conversations in the Ustream we don't always get what we want. We have been filming and in the next couple days or maybe even sooner we will be posting studio videos. That is if I can figure out Imovie lol Everythings DIY on this one, even down to producing it ourselves. (of course with help from Don over here at BOTA studios.) Glad you all dig the Axe Fx tone! As for hearing Superior samples, we recorded drums with mics AND triggers, and for the tracking process we have been using the samples for quick and awesome sounding reference. The drums were micd and triggered, the guitars were recorded with axe fx and clean direct in, as was the bass. So drums, guitars, and bass are completely subject to change from what you hear in any streams or upcoming studio videos.

Talk to you guys soon and hopefully see you soon on tour. We will be playing new music!

 

[glpg80]

Read the rest of the sentence - he used the triggers for tracking to get a quick and easy sound reference for the mic'ed set. there is a the making of the album video floating around where he mentions the triggers are NOT on the album - they are the mic'ed set, as he had the triggers setup in a different part of the studio only used for warmups - all of this straight from Lee's mouth, not mine.

 

[Code001]

I'm really not sure how you came to the conclusion that the kit is 100% acoustic? He specifically said they're mic'd and triggered right in that post. Seriously, just listen to the drums in that. It's obvious they're triggered.

 

[glpg80]

I'm really not sure how you came to the conclusion that the kit is 100% acoustic? He specifically said they're mic'd and triggered right in that post. Seriously, just listen to the drums in that. It's obvious they're triggered.

when i said read the rest of the sentence Tom that is what i meant bro. "the samples" means from the triggers. as for the rest of your 100% accoustic bit, watch this and see. 3:35.

 

[Code001]

Um, do you not see the triggers in that video at the very spot you linked?

 

[glassjaw7]

Calling the use of triggers cheating is like calling the use of guitar amps cheating. They don't enhance the skill of the drummer. The style of music sometimes calls for them, that's all. Just like you need amp overdrive/distortion to play metal.

 

[glpg80]

he used the triggers for tracking to get a quick and easy sound reference for the mic'ed set.

nowhere in that quote does it say he didnt use them at all

im done hijacking this poor mans thread. back on topic

 

[sinfish]

I see allot of triggered, quantized, and plugins like Steven Slate. But everyone seems to forget they quantized the drum tracks when they talk about laying down good takes. I have also seen some muting the bass drums and hit replacing with a hand hit pad.

 

[maddnotez]

I can't remember the last time I have seen or heard of a good metal band that does not use triggers on at least the kick.

I could be wrong but it sounds like you do not know what triggers are and/or do. Glassjaw explained it best i think.

Drum triggers are a little tiny pad with wiring that goes to a processor then an amp of some sort. It changes the sound of the drums nothing more.

I guess if you wanted to you could program a delay of some sort to make each hit trigger twice. That would be cheating. That would also be really rediculous.


To the OP, Im sure there are bands who do not sound anything like they do in studio. But most bigger metal bands have the proper gear and sound tech to do it.

 

[skoora]

I would the equate the use of triggers more to a guitarist using a guitar synth to achieve different sounds. Or maybe a modelling guitar that can do acoustic or simulate 12 string etc. Even though the drum trigger is triggering a drum sound it's still a sample that has nothing to do with the original drum at all. I personally don't like triggers as they make the music mechanical and lacking in dynamics. Why buy a nice kit when you can trigger a sampled nice kit It's definitely a big part of why a lot of modern recordings of metal just don't appeal to me at all....and that's any genre of metal.

Depending on the bands budget for a live setup they're using the same triggers live too. Which is how they pull it off.

Damn, they've been Sneapafied

 

[dainbramage0]

Triggers seem to be a love/hate thing.. There are plenty of great metal albums that have triggered drums and amazing drummers that pull off those drum tracks live with no issue. I think triggers became popular because of time/financial restrictions mostly.

Cheating? not really, but a nice way to save time - and lets face it, most kids can't tell the difference listening to an album anyway.

I believe I read that the newest Decapitated album featured no triggers, all drum sounds were mic'd in the same studio Haake uses to record Meshuggah drums.

 

[maddnotez]

Triggers seem to be a love/hate thing.. There are plenty of great metal albums that have triggered drums and amazing drummers that pull off those drum tracks live with no issue. I think triggers became popular because of time/financial restrictions mostly.

Cheating? not really, but a nice way to save time - and lets face it, most kids can't tell the difference listening to an album anyway.

I believe I read that the newest Decapitated album featured no triggers, all drum sounds were mic'd in the same studio Haake uses to record Meshuggah drums.

will have to check it out and pay close attention. I thought everyone used at least kick triggers mixed with live kick these days. I just love the way it sounds with that kind of music I guess.

 

[Joeytpg]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

 

[Dr. Swamp]

Triggers seem to be a love/hate thing.. There are plenty of great metal albums that have triggered drums and amazing drummers that pull off those drum tracks live with no issue. I think triggers became popular because of time/financial restrictions mostly.

Cheating? not really, but a nice way to save time - and lets face it, most kids can't tell the difference listening to an album anyway.

I believe I read that the newest Decapitated album featured no triggers, all drum sounds were mic'd in the same studio Haake uses to record Meshuggah drums.

The new Decapitated album had the strangest drum recording set up I've seen. They pushed a Grand Piano up against the bass drum, covered it with blankets, and mic'd all around and inside of the enclosure, creating a giant subkick.

 

[Dr. Swamp]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

Triggers are not what corrects sloppy playing.

 

[maddnotez]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

Triggers are not what corrects sloppy playing.

It will most definitely correct a weak hit which is what I think he was meaning.