Modern metal band tricks........

[dainbramage0]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

Triggers are not what corrects sloppy playing.

It will most definitely correct a weak hit which is what I think he was meaning.

I applaud any drummer who does not utilize them, but I can't blame a guy for wanting to get a solid performance recorded quick and painlessly. Perhaps studio costs, coupled with the low income of most metal bands leads to getting in, recording your shit and getting the fuck out ASAP. I don't think they'll be going away any time soon based off of that alone

Perhaps with the rise of smaller 'basement' studios in the last couple of years more bands will decide to do it 'old school' though.

 

[Deleted member 8761]

I remember an interview with Fear Factory in which the guitar player said they used triggers to get a very tight drum recording. It fitted their more "mechanical" approach at that time. This was somewhere in the 90's for their earlier albums, I believe ( can't remember exactly). So this has been around quite a while now and not only since a few new bands... I think we are getting fooled at live performances more than we want to know.

 

[JTyson]

Triggers have been used on lots of stuff you've heard, even in the 80's, although not as much as now. We use them here to get consistency in the drum sound due to having a terrible room to record in, not because our drummer is lacking anything (trust me, he's not)
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I think the current home studio revolution has led to them being more prevalent, not less.
Not many people can take a shitty room, less than par drum mikes, and a less than middle of the road drum kit and end up with stellar drum sounds, although they may end up being adequate if your drummer is really good at tuning drums (most are not)
For what you pay for a good set of drum-specific mikes, you can buy triggers and the software of your choice (unless its ultra high-end) and end up with drum sounds that absolutely CRUSH what you could have done the other way. And no, you cant always tell a particular drum sound was triggered. Obviously you can tell on some of them, but not all of them. I know of times people thought something was triggered when it wasent just because it was gated to a point you could hear the gate cutoff
I'm old-school about a lot of stuff, but dont mind triggers at all, they have been very useful to us here, and we save a lot of time with them

 

[thiswaythatway]

 

[Joeytpg]

IMO triggers are like auto tuning.............. when used correctly they work and they save time, BUT a singer/drummer that relies on triggers and auto tuning it's just sad and wrong IMO. And I think nowadays it's getting more and more common to see this pattern among metal/rock drummers (it's all turned to shit in the singers department for a while now)

Live I don't wanna fucking hear auto tuning, same with drums....I don't wanna hear triggers live....I want to listen to the drummer and his capabilities.

 

[locoed]

What new bands are you talking about?

 

[skoora]

That guy is one hell of a drummer

 

[jcj]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but based on everything being said, it seems very similar to a guitar player using a boost, compression or ultra gained out amp; it covers inconsistencies. Who hasn't done that?

Hell....you can add effects in there, as well...seems like it's just a part of making modern music

 

[Joeytpg]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but based on everything being said, it seems very similar to a guitar player using a boost, compression or ultra gained out amp; it covers inconsistencies. Who hasn't done that?

Hell....you can add effects in there, as well...seems like it's just a part of making modern music

this could very well be true

 

[Jordon]

A lot of the modern drummers these days are actually really, really good. That, a good kit, good tech and a decent engineer behind the board and you have a recipe for great sounding drums. Same goes for guitars. And vocals.

I think because things are edited to death these days, people automatically assume that the musicians aren't any good. Quite the contrary. For example, Breaking Benjamin records are edited to fuck, the drum kit is totally replaced, besides the cymbals, but Chad Szeliga is a fucking fantastic drummer.

As someone who makes his living working with modern rock and metal bands, I spend at least a week each month editing drums. You CANNOT edit a bad performance to sound good. It'll still sound like shit. The drummer has to be good to begin with. Editing is just bringing things a bit more in line, or it's dont for effect, or because the style/industry/blah blah calls for it.

That's my view as a producer/audio engineer, anyway.

 

[Jordon]

I'm really not sure how you came to the conclusion that the kit is 100% acoustic? He specifically said they're mic'd and triggered right in that post. Seriously, just listen to the drums in that. It's obvious they're triggered.

when i said read the rest of the sentence Tom that is what i meant bro. "the samples" means from the triggers. as for the rest of your 100% accoustic bit, watch this and see. 3:35.

No drums on any BOO album are real. I know this for a fact. All really fucking cool guys though, and their drummer is a fucking monster.

By "real," I mean they were replaced after-the-fact.

And triggers don't equal sound. Triggers only produce clicks, like tapping the diaphragm of a microphone. They're most often used in a studio as a better reference for editing and sample replacement. Triggers don't "correct sloppy playing". Off-time hits will still be off time, whether you're using the mic on the drum, or the triggered signal.

 

[Jordon]

I have seen Meshuggah a couple of times....

Tomas Hake the drummer...no need for drum machine

All the drums on that record were programmed with Drumkit From Hell. Just sayin'


Oh, and the record that QOTSA did with Joe Baressi...Well, they tracked the drum shells separate from the overheads. Is that cheating?

And, Nirvana's Nevermind and Metallica's Black Album had sample replacement and sample stacking on the drums.

Don't mean to be a post whore, but I'm losing my mind with all the bad information being tossed around as fact in this thread.

 

[tjon]

The new Fleshgod Apocalypse album stands out for me. I love the band and the album kicks ass but live their drummer is all over the place. You can tell he has only been playing a couple years.

 

[Joeytpg]

I have seen Meshuggah a couple of times....

Tomas Hake the drummer...no need for drum machine

All the drums on that record were programmed with Drumkit From Hell. Just sayin'


Oh, and the record that QOTSA did with Joe Baressi...Well, they tracked the drum shells separate from the overheads. Is that cheating?

And, Nirvana's Nevermind and Metallica's Black Album had sample replacement and sample stacking on the drums.

Don't mean to be a post whore, but I'm losing my mind with all the bad information being tossed around as fact in this thread.

Brother, if you have info, share it and just get us outta the dark

 

[Jordon]

I have seen Meshuggah a couple of times....

Tomas Hake the drummer...no need for drum machine

All the drums on that record were programmed with Drumkit From Hell. Just sayin'


Oh, and the record that QOTSA did with Joe Baressi...Well, they tracked the drum shells separate from the overheads. Is that cheating?

And, Nirvana's Nevermind and Metallica's Black Album had sample replacement and sample stacking on the drums.

Don't mean to be a post whore, but I'm losing my mind with all the bad information being tossed around as fact in this thread.

Brother, if you have info, share it and just get us outta the dark

I could literally spend 6 hours typing out answers and explanations about things hahaha.

What, specifically, would you like to know?

 

[Joeytpg]

in general man.......tricks and stuff bands do that people would go WTF??? like the example you mention on the band that used no real drums for the final product.

 

[Jordon]

Well, on a lot of modern hard rock and metal records, the guitar is tracked 1 or 2 bars at a time. Guitars are tuned to the fretted chord, played, then tuned to the next fretted chord. It can get insane. A lot of times, a DI signal is taken with the amp tracks so the guitars can be edited to the kick and snare, or to the grid. Most of it comes down to taste, though. I do a bit of all of that in my productions, but I don't go to the point of it sounding un-natural.

For example: Great drummer, phenomenal singer, good guitarists =

The drums were edited, and the kick was sample-replaced, the snare was stacked with a sample for reinforcement. The bass was time-aligned with the kick drum and pitch-corrected via Melodyne. Due to the nature of the song, the guitars in the main riff and bridge were time-aligned like the bass. Maybe 10% of the lead vocal was pitch corrected, about 80% of the backing vocals were hard-corrected. All auxilliary vocals were time-aligned to the lead. Sorry, it's just a rough mix I started before I went on vaca this winter.

 

[skoora]

Well, on a lot of modern hard rock and metal records, the guitar is tracked 1 or 2 bars at a time. Guitars are tuned to the fretted chord, played, then tuned to the next fretted chord. It can get insane. A lot of times, a DI signal is taken with the amp tracks so the guitars can be edited to the kick and snare, or to the grid. Most of it comes down to taste, though. I do a bit of all of that in my productions, but I don't go to the point of it sounding un-natural.

For example: Great drummer, phenomenal singer, good guitarists =

The drums were edited, and the kick was sample-replaced, the snare was stacked with a sample for reinforcement. The bass was time-aligned with the kick drum and pitch-corrected via Melodyne. Due to the nature of the song, the guitars in the main riff and bridge were time-aligned like the bass. Maybe 10% of the lead vocal was pitch corrected, about 80% of the backing vocals were hard-corrected. All auxilliary vocals were time-aligned to the lead. Sorry, it's just a rough mix I started before I went on vaca this winter.

I'm glad all my studio/engineering days were well before digital was the norm. It makes you wonder how could any decent rock/metal recordings have been accomplished before all this digital necessity for editing

 

[Joeytpg]

Well, on a lot of modern hard rock and metal records, the guitar is tracked 1 or 2 bars at a time. Guitars are tuned to the fretted chord, played, then tuned to the next fretted chord. It can get insane. A lot of times, a DI signal is taken with the amp tracks so the guitars can be edited to the kick and snare, or to the grid. Most of it comes down to taste, though. I do a bit of all of that in my productions, but I don't go to the point of it sounding un-natural.

For example: Great drummer, phenomenal singer, good guitarists =

The drums were edited, and the kick was sample-replaced, the snare was stacked with a sample for reinforcement. The bass was time-aligned with the kick drum and pitch-corrected via Melodyne. Due to the nature of the song, the guitars in the main riff and bridge were time-aligned like the bass. Maybe 10% of the lead vocal was pitch corrected, about 80% of the backing vocals were hard-corrected. All auxilliary vocals were time-aligned to the lead. Sorry, it's just a rough mix I started before I went on vaca this winter.

I'm glad all my studio/engineering days were well before digital was the norm. It makes you wonder how could any decent rock/metal recordings have been accomplished before all this digital necessity for editing

by being TIGHT and good man. same with those old Boyz II Men recording and olf 50s doo woops bands.....they sang IN KEY, no auto tuning there.

 

[skoora]

Well, on a lot of modern hard rock and metal records, the guitar is tracked 1 or 2 bars at a time. Guitars are tuned to the fretted chord, played, then tuned to the next fretted chord. It can get insane. A lot of times, a DI signal is taken with the amp tracks so the guitars can be edited to the kick and snare, or to the grid. Most of it comes down to taste, though. I do a bit of all of that in my productions, but I don't go to the point of it sounding un-natural.

For example: Great drummer, phenomenal singer, good guitarists =

The drums were edited, and the kick was sample-replaced, the snare was stacked with a sample for reinforcement. The bass was time-aligned with the kick drum and pitch-corrected via Melodyne. Due to the nature of the song, the guitars in the main riff and bridge were time-aligned like the bass. Maybe 10% of the lead vocal was pitch corrected, about 80% of the backing vocals were hard-corrected. All auxilliary vocals were time-aligned to the lead. Sorry, it's just a rough mix I started before I went on vaca this winter.

I'm glad all my studio/engineering days were well before digital was the norm. It makes you wonder how could any decent rock/metal recordings have been accomplished before all this digital necessity for editing

by being TIGHT and good man. same with those old Boyz II Men recording and olf 50s doo woops bands.....they sang IN KEY, no auto tuning there.

Oh, I know. I just couldn't figure out how to make that sound sarcastic through typing.