Modern metal band tricks........

[skoora]

People are'nt saying the triggers help an, out of time drummer be in time. They're just saying that they mask a drummer with poor dynamic control. Uneven snare hits, kick beats etc. But correct me if I'm wrong can't the triggers create a midi track if desired that can have, for example, the kick and snare moved around all day loing to put the right groove on a track. Could that theoretically also be quantised to be with a click, even live?

Anyway as people have said, it's the end result that matters but like Atropos said I'm not hearing anything I like from heavy trigger use yet.

In the early 90's I use to use a TC 2290 to sample a good snare hit from a drummer and then have it triggered by that same track and mixed in for consistancy.

 

[Jordon]

People are'nt saying the triggers help an, out of time drummer be in time. They're just saying that they mask a drummer with poor dynamic control. Uneven snare hits, kick beats etc. But correct me if I'm wrong can't the triggers create a midi track if desired that can have, for example, the kick and snare moved around all day loing to put the right groove on a track. Could that theoretically also be quantised to be with a click, even live?

Anyway as people have said, it's the end result that matters but like Atropos said I'm not hearing anything I like from heavy trigger use yet.

In the early 90's I use to use a TC 2290 to sample a good snare hit from a drummer and then have it triggered by that same track and mixed in for consistancy.

Doing that with triggers and MIDI would be no different than slicing and quantizing acoustic drums.

 

[skoora]

That would be a lot easier with isolated triggered samples than acoustic kit with all the bleed. Any way if ever. have to edit a track that much, damn song is going a Capella

 

[bigdaddyd]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

In the '80s and sometimes '90s sometimes the majority if not the entire drum tracks were done with drum machine and drummers were credited...just saying.

 

[degenaro]

People are'nt saying the triggers help an, out of time drummer be in time. They're just saying that they mask a drummer with poor dynamic control. Uneven snare hits, kick beats etc. But correct me if I'm wrong can't the triggers create a midi track if desired that can have, for example, the kick and snare moved around all day loing to put the right groove on a track. Could that theoretically also be quantised to be with a click, even live?

Anyway as people have said, it's the end result that matters but like Atropos said I'm not hearing anything I like from heavy trigger use yet.

In the early 90's I use to use a TC 2290 to sample a good snare hit from a drummer and then have it triggered by that same track and mixed in for consistancy.

Well how is this different than using a compressor? It isn't. And yes triggers by design spit out a midi command...note on/note off, velocity, etc... and yes you can quantize that all day long just as you can quantize audio all day. Once again the tool...just like with auto-tune is not the issue, its the abuse of the user.
And it's no different except now we get to sample replace with shit that has multiple velocity samples.

 

[degenaro]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

In the '80s and sometimes '90s sometimes the majority if not the entire drum tracks were done with drum machine and drummers were credited...just saying.

or...played by some one else...

 

[skoora]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

In the '80s and sometimes '90s sometimes the majority if not the entire drum tracks were done with drum machine and drummers were credited...just saying.

or...played by some one else...

Ha! If I remember correctly Cinderella's first two records didn't use their actual drummer as he couldn't do it clean enough in the studio. I'm sure they were one of many whether it's bass players or guitar solos etc.

 

[Lord Toneking]

Maybe John Mayers band should have used some of these cheating techniques when they tried to play Panama then it wouldn't have sounded like a total trainwreck.

Good one!

 

[Lord Toneking]

My drummer uses triggers when we play live...and we're just a classic rock cover band. He has three triggers and his own little 2 space rack box that sits next to him. Three cables to the board and that's it. Two toms and a kick, it does wonders for the overall sound coming out of the mains

 

[degenaro]

the thing with triggers is they correct the sloppy playing man...... a sloppy double bass is "somewhat" corrected (the drummer needs to be in time though) but still......I 'm not saying it's UBER cheating.......but in the 80s there weren't any triggers and you could hear lombardo and those guys fcuking slaying the drums.


same with jazz drummers..... sometimes they play really fast stuff and most of them aren't using triggers.


I could be wrong though.

In the '80s and sometimes '90s sometimes the majority if not the entire drum tracks were done with drum machine and drummers were credited...just saying.

or...played by some one else...

Ha! If I remember correctly Cinderella's first two records didn't use their actual drummer as he couldn't do it clean enough in the studio. I'm sure they were one of many whether it's bass players or guitar solos etc.

Yup...you can go down the list. I mean Robben Ford and Vinnie Vicnent recording the guitars for Ace Freheley on Creatures Of The Night.
And Mike Slamer must played on more 80s releases than Lukather.

When all is said and down anything other than 2 microphones in a room with the band playing together is "cheating".
I mean why is auto tune bad but lowering the speed of the tape machine so the singer can hit the high notes is ok. Backing vocals flown in via sampler at pretty much all 80s shows is ok, but lip-syncing crap bands now is bad. Punching in notes y the 16th is ok but moving the audio around is bad. etc...

The bottom-line is simple when it comes to recording...where it actually costs you money...whatever gets the job done more cost effective is whats gonna happen when some one else foots the bill.
Whether its by bringing in session guys to knock the part out right in a few takes, or editing the shit out of drum track with shaky timing.

Now having said that, having worked with Indian musicians in India I was quite surprised at their level of "getting shit right" my singer hates auto tune, and in her case it makes sense because anything I've thrown at her she got right at the worst the 3rd take all the way through...in time, in tune.
I was at a few film sessions in India and those cats bang it out like 70s and 80s LA or current Nashvile folks. Amazing consistency.