Module level / Master level question..

[Klark]

Just wanting some opinions on what's better to do..

A) Module masters lower like 9am, and master volume higher like 3pm.

B) Module masters higher like 3pm, and master volume lower like 9am.

 

[Anonymous]

I run my M4 with the module masters cranked between 3-5pm. M4 master at noon. Matter of preference.

 

[Fallout Labs]

i pretty well have my modules dimed and use the master to control the overall volume on the mod50..

 

[3 Mile Stone]

Yea, I agree. I think the master on the module if set too low begins to get that choked preamp only type distortion. I think both should be at least at noon, clean sounds are much higher on the module.

 

[bscfo1]

For me it depends on the module and the kind of sound I'm going for. If it's a module with an A channel that can be really clean and I want the cleanest sound possible, the module master usually is around 3:00 to 4:00 and the gain is 9:30 to 10:00.

This is typical for my DLX, T/D, Bman, and VX modules A channels. For their B channels, I'll push the gain up and back off the master for a thicker solo boosted sound. Again, it depends on how much gain I want, and how much I want the volume level boosted that determines the levels.

I always set up my cleans first, then I work on my more gainy modules. In channel A I usually adjust them for the gain I need, and then turn up the master to match the other modules levels. For B, I increase the gain and level for a solo boost.

I've also tried pushing the higher gain modules levels more and backing off the gain like I do with the cleaner modules. I sounds good but it makes things more difficult when you try to match the volumes with the cleaner modules. The problem is they get so loud that you end up backing off the amp master and then your clean sounds get buried.

So - set up cleans first, then get your overdrive/distortion levels and gain to match the clean levels. Then turn up the amp master to at least 1:00. Works for me.

 

[EWSEthan]

It really depends on whether or not you are running anything in the loops, but tonally I also think its better to run the channel masters low and the overall master high. If you are using effects, then running the channel masters too high will be too hot and they will clip. I run my channel masters just hot enough to where my TimeFactor in the loop doesnt clip (which isnt very high...that loop is HOT). If you think about it, the channel masters are just your FX send volume.

Regardless, I like running them lower so I can crank the master higher and get the power tubes cooking more.

 

[guitarslinger]

clean module channel A = dimed.

adjust other channels based on that.

adjust master based on 2290 input meter.

 

[EWSEthan]

clean module channel A = dimed.

adjust other channels based on that.

adjust master based on 2290 input meter.

With the master on your clean module dimed you dont overload the input of the 2290?

 

[guitarslinger]

clean module channel A = dimed.

adjust other channels based on that.

adjust master based on 2290 input meter.

With the master on your clean module dimed you dont overload the input of the 2290?

On the M4, the overall Master Volume is before the 2290 since there is no "FX loop" per se.

The 2290 is hard to overload with the XLR input looking for a +4 dB signal.

I don't use the hot 1/4" input of the 2290, b/c it overloads with almost any preamp.

The M4 Master is usually right around noon

 

[EWSEthan]

On the M4, the overall Master Volume is before the 2290 since there is no "FX loop" per se.

Thats the key right there! I forgot you were using an M4. Makes sense.

 

[Fallout Labs]

clean module channel A = dimed.

adjust other channels based on that.

adjust master based on 2290 input meter.

With the master on your clean module dimed you dont overload the input of the 2290?

i don't clip a dd-20

 

[bscfo1]

It really depends on whether or not you are running anything in the loops, but tonally I also think its better to run the channel masters low and the overall master high. If you are using effects, then running the channel masters too high will be too hot and they will clip. I run my channel masters just hot enough to where my TimeFactor in the loop doesnt clip (which isnt very high...that loop is HOT). If you think about it, the channel masters are just your FX send volume.

Regardless, I like running them lower so I can crank the master higher and get the power tubes cooking more.

Good point about the loops. If you run the module masters high, clipping can be a problem. Also, since there is such a difference in module master levels from clean to distorted settings, your effects will be weak or very dominant. I don't have anything in my serial loop, just the reverb in the parallel one. I could dime the masters for the cleans like guitarslinger does and it wouldn't matter. But I rarely have to dime any of the modules masters if my amp master is more than 1:00. It sounds great and it's plenty loud. Just personal preference.

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock. Other wise its a matter of preference.

 

[bscfo1]

In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock. Other wise its a matter of preference.

This is exactly what I noticed. Jeff just said it better than me. As he should. LOL!

 

[king tone]

In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock. Other wise its a matter of preference.

Not to hijack this thread but I think it is somewhat related.

Tell me in more detail what you mean...
Are you saying the main master is the overall master volume of the amp or per module?

I would like to get my module masters higher, sort of to simulate not having a master volume and getting the hottest signal that can be used before the poweramp but I guess I need a line level shifter or something. Is the ebtech what you recommend or is there a better solution? I am running a yamaha ud stomp in the parallel loop. I originally thought the yamaha was line level which may be a mistake, there is no indication in the manual although there is a switch for the input(high-low) I do not think it is a
-10 or +4 switch. I would say my t/d module is about 12 oclock on gain and between 3 to 4 oclock on module master. The sl2 is balanced to the clean, somewhere around 12 to 1 oclock gain and 12 oclock module master. Does this seem to hot, to low or what? Will this be hotter with the level shifter? Some say tonal differences...any ideas? Is there a sort of (roughly) "unity" setting if you were not using the loop? Thanks!

 

[AdamB]

My main channel is my Erect B, gain 12o'clock, module volume 12o'clock, master 12o'clock

 

[bscfo1]

In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock. Other wise its a matter of preference.

Not to hijack this thread but I think it is somewhat related.

Tell me in more detail what you mean...
Are you saying the main master is the overall master volume of the amp or per module?

I would like to get my module masters higher, sort of to simulate not having a master volume and getting the hottest signal that can be used before the poweramp but I guess I need a line level shifter or something. Is the ebtech what you recommend or is there a better solution? I am running a yamaha ud stomp in the parallel loop. I originally thought the yamaha was line level which may be a mistake, there is no indication in the manual although there is a switch for the input(high-low) I do not think it is a
-10 or +4 switch. I would say my t/d module is about 12 oclock on gain and between 3 to 4 oclock on module master. The sl2 is balanced to the clean, somewhere around 12 to 1 oclock gain and 12 oclock module master. Does this seem to hot, to low or what? Will this be hotter with the level shifter? Some say tonal differences...any ideas? Is there a sort of (roughly) "unity" setting if you were not using the loop? Thanks!

I think Jeff is only saying that if your amps main master isn't at least 2:00, you'll have trouble balancing the levels between the modules and the effect send to the loop could be uncontrollable. But if you want to run the module masters really hot you can. You may like the way the amp sounds that way, but balance and loop levels might be tough to deal with.

 

[EWSEthan]

My brain is having trouble following this logic. Why would the overall master volume have anything to do with module output level consistency or the FX Loop. As far as Im aware, its well after the FX loop so should have no effect on the loop or individual module levels whatsoever. The way I see it module level balancing has to happen with the module masters.

I think Jeff has to be talking about module masters needing to stay below 2-3 oclock or you will send to hot a signal to your FX.

 

[bscfo1]

My brain is having trouble following this logic. Why would the overall master volume have anything to do with module output level consistency or the FX Loop. As far as Im aware, its well after the FX loop so should have no effect on the loop or individual module levels whatsoever. The way I see it module level balancing has to happen with the module masters.

I think Jeff has to be talking about module masters needing to stay below 2-3 oclock or you will send to hot a signal to your FX.

If you are using a low gain module like the T/D and you want pristine cleans, you'll have to set the gain low (9:30) and the module master high (3:00). If you don't set the amps master to at least 2:00, it won't be very loud, so you'll end up diming the module master to get more volume. I think Jeff is saying that if you turn up the amps master, you won't need to dime the module master which apparently causes a hot signal to the loop.

 

[Valtiel]

Regardless, I like running them lower so I can crank the master higher and get the power tubes cooking more.

I had a chat with my amp tech about this, a lot of people have the misconception that regardless of what is going on before the master volume that higher master volume setting = cooking the power tubes more. This just isnt the case, if you put your channel masters at barely on (8 o'clock) and crank the master volume up to 10, you are not running the power tubes any hotter than if you achieved that same volume level with a higher channel master setting and a lower master volume setting. By running the channel masters lower and the master higher, you are NOT cooking the power tubes more. Think of it like valves controlling the flow of water, in this case there are two valves. One is the the channel master of whatever channel you happen to be on and the other is the master volume itself. If you restrict the flow of water more by turning the channel master down, you will have to turn the master volume higher to get the SAME amount of juice flowing to the power tubes. Bottom line is that the power tubes have a certain amount of signal that they need before they start to break up, with a 50 watt amp it will be very very very loud (more or less so depending on the type of power tube) by the time that happens and there is nothing you can do pre-power section (any of the volume controls) to cause this to happen sooner or at a lower volume level than it otherwise would. You need a post power section volume control to do this i.e. an attenuator.

Now this also depends on where the master volume is in relation to the PI tube. If the master volume is pre-phase inverter then you can also overdrive that tube as well. If the master is post-phase inverter then it dosent matter.