Musk seeks personal tax info on millions from IRS.

  • Thread starter Thread starter shar-vell Dan
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PDC said:
I honestly had never stopped to consider to what degree one has a reasonable 'expectation of privacy' in their tax returns and supporting documentation.
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Really? There are IRC tax disclosure laws that are explicit on this. That doesn't create a reasonable expectation of privacy for you?
 
JackTripper said:
Really? There are IRC tax disclosure laws that are explicit on this. That doesn't create a reasonable expectation of privacy for you?
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The federal government has all the authority to examine your taxes. It’s well within their purview. It’s not HIPPA and you voluntarily disclosed your earnings to them. You have no legal grounds to stand on to say that the Federal government cannot review and scrutinize your filings with them.
 
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TheBiggestJerk said:
The federal government has all the authority to examine your taxes. It’s well within their purview. It’s not HIPPA and you voluntarily disclosed your earnings to them. You have no legal grounds to stand on to say that the Federal government cannot review and scrutinize your filings with them.
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Never said that, go back and reread the original post and my reply unless for some reason I misunderstood PDC's opening point.

As a taxpayer you have the right to expect that any information provided to the IRS will not be disclosed unless authorized by the taxpayer or tax law. THAT is the expectation of privacy I was alluding to.

And no one voluntarily discloses their earnings to the IRS. The IRS takes your money by fiat.
 
JackTripper said:
Never said that, go back and reread the original post and my reply unless for some reason I misunderstood PDC's opening point.

As a taxpayer you have the right to expect that any information provided to the IRS will not be disclosed unless authorized by the taxpayer or tax law. THAT is the expectation of privacy I was alluding to.

And no one voluntarily discloses their earnings to the IRS. The IRS takes your money by fiat.
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Yes they do! You voluntarily file a 1040. The entire tax system is predicated on “voluntary compliance”.
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Floyd Eye said:
And thousands of unelected bureaucrats at the IRS have access to all your data. But they're melting down over 1 billionaire who could give a shit less about your shit.
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I don’t care if they have my data. It’s all there at their behest to begin with. They issued my SSN… it’s their game.
 
JackTripper said:
How can it be voluntary if there are penalties associated with not filing?
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Pretty nuts huh?! There is not a single law on the books that says you have to pay taxes and there is no law that requires the employer to withhold. Even the history of the US income tax is both as sketchy and dodgy as it gets, but that’s a whole other subject.
Search Irwin Schiff.
 
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TheBiggestJerk said:
And it’s all their money too. Whose picture is on it? Certainly not mine. It’s their game, not ours. They’re both the house and the dealer.
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Render unto Caeser what is Caeser's eh ?

I worked pretty hard for that money though. So I'm just going to keep on pretending it's mine. :-)
 
TheBiggestJerk said:
Pretty nuts huh?! There is not a single law on the books that says you have to pay taxes and there is no law that requires the employer to withhold. Even the history of the US income tax is both as sketchy and dodgy as it gets, but that’s a whole other subject.
Search Irwin Schiff.
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There are laws, and associated penalties, it's called the IRC. And another 43 states have parallel laws that piggyback on the IRC.

Stop volunteering, and see what happens :LOL:
 
JackTripper said:
No, they don't

"Employers generally must withhold Social Security and Medicare taxes from employees' wages and pay the employer share of these taxes"
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/understanding-employment-taxes
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Yes they do.

“Social security contributions are compulsory payments”

https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/social-security-contributions.html#:~:text=Social security contributions are compulsory,(contingent) future social benefit.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Yes they do.

“Social security contributions are compulsory payments”

https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/social-security-contributions.html#:~:text=Social security contributions are compulsory,(contingent) future social benefit.
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By “they” I was referring to the Federal Government/IRS. They call SS what it is--a tax--not a contribution.

But the non-government source you cited is relevant to the point I was trying to make to TheBiggestJerk above, which is taxes (income, payroll, property, etc.) are compulsory and not voluntary.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
Simmer down there Sling-blade Dan. I know it's hard for someone of your mental capacitance to understand basic concepts.

It's not Elon Musk as a private citizen demanding access to every American's private information. It DOGE as a government agency filing an official request to access records for ongoing audit purposes.
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I think if Musk can incorporate his cutting-edge AI tech into the world of audits, it could be a game changer for the IRS. Database mining and matching is where the future is at.

-The DMV database calculates the fair market value of your vehicle at $60k, but your reported federal income is $30k, flag for audit.
-Spending databases (credit cards, PP, Venmo, Zelle, etc) calculate your annual purchases at $50k, but your reported federal income is $30k, flag for audit.
-Real estate databases calculate the fair market value of your property at $500k, but your reported federal income is $30k, flag for audit.

Possibilities are limitless once you replace expensive labor costs (auditors) with algorithms. Instead of focusing audits on the wealthy, who are audited on routine cycles, the IRS can become both more efficient and egalitarian at the same time.

With AI, everybody gets audited in real time.
 
70 Mach 1 said:
like the powers to be don't already know all this shit
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They do for the most part, but their biggest operational constraint is resource allocation to maximize use of the millions of data points now available.

It's like saying who cares about Robotaxi, I can drive a car.
 
JackTripper said:
By “they” I was referring to the Federal Government/IRS. They call SS what it is--a tax--not a contribution.

But the non-government source you cited is relevant to the point I was trying to make to TheBiggestJerk above, which is taxes (income, payroll, property, etc.) are compulsory and not voluntary.
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Dude, what does FICA stand for ?
 
JackTripper said:
Here what SS Administration cite says: "FICA is a U.S. federal payroll tax. 6.2%of your gross wages goes to Social Security tax. 1.45%of your gross wages goes to Medicare tax." https://www.ssa.gov/people/materials/pdfs/EN-05-10298.pdf


And here is what the IRS says: "Taxes under the Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) are composed of the old-age, survivors, and disability insurance taxes, also known as Social Security taxes, and the hospital insurance taxes, also known as Medicare taxes. Different rates apply for these taxes."
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc751

Why?
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Federal Insurance CONTRIBUTIONS Act.
 
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