MV setting, who cranks it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kapo_Polenton
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Kapo_Polenton

Kapo_Polenton

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With a 1 x 12 it is loud enough, with a 4 x 12, holy $hitballs air starts moving and parts of your house that were not screwed in properly start to move as well. I'm generally interested in how many of you move air when you play. In fact, I bet a lot of our complaints about "fizzy" tone or muffled tone likely goes away when the volume goes up. Lately I've been struggling with my 2204 build. I think it sounds like shit at lower volumes. Way worse than my other amps. So I snipped the bright cap to help with some buzzsaw gain. That worked ok but pedals still bugged me... so i put the master vol up past 4 (which is still relatively nothing! but i generally play around the 1.5-2 max because vol is insane on these JMP/2204's) and everything starts shaking but imagine that, the raspy fuzzy tone that bugged me levels off and the bass response coming from the speaker tightens up.

Just a reminder for those of you pulling your hair over your amp's lack of this or that quality or thinking that going from a V30 to a creamback will make THAT much of a diff... it probably won't unless you get that master up!

I know this is common sense but just because the amp seems "loud", doesn't always mean you are actually pushing it into flavour country. This also makes me wonder about amps that are mic'd back stage or off to the side of the stage. Where they don't use an iso box of some sort, are they blasting a cab in a corner with a few mics on it? That has to make for some insane volume backstage too doesn't it?
 
Things definitely get more fun turned up loud. You feel the sound pressure.

Your 1x12 is a JCM 4010, right? Mine doesn't sound bad at low volumes (better as it gets louder of course). If you look at the 4010 circuit, there's an extra cap across the mid pot that isn't there on a 2204. I've always understood that Marshall did that to roll off some high end to account for the 1x12 combo cab in the 4010. If your 2204 clone doesn't sound as good at low volume, maybe try placing a cap across the mid pot like on the 4010.
 
I move my master to 1:00+ regularly. On my Diezels and Bogners, the amp itself doesn't get much louder after that point (the VH4 starts to taper in SPL at about 1:00, maybe a touch more, but most are noon for max SPL and then from there it's crumble and tone all the way) but it also totally changes my shaping. You can either go low MV (the usual 9:00 setting) with channel at 3:00 to get a preamp loaded signal; or, something I like to do with my Bogners for sure; crank up the MV (maybe 3:00 in some cases) and work the channel volume to taste. Obviously this isn't an "at home" scenario - this is in the bunker - our session space as of late. As the volume will rip anyone a new arhoolie if standing within 15 feet.
 
VH4 is the loudest amp I've ever used. 2203/2204 amps are loud too, but holy shit the VH4 could kill small aminals. Maybe big ones. Great master, though. Also could sound good at low volumes.
 
I'm 49 and come from the excessive volume era. We'd have volume wars in local clubs back in the mid to late 80's. It is true that the majority of tube amps sound better the louder you go. I'm also strictly a 4x12 guy regardless of how loud you are playing...it always sounds better to my ears. I haven't gigged in ages but I still like volume but doubt I could do that like I did in the day with multiple 2203/04's and 4x12's. At home I don't crank to stage volumes as I'd destroy too many household items but still like it fairly loud. The louder the higher the volume goes the lower the pre-amp volume and presence go for me
 
cardinal":1rk88r0c said:
Things definitely get more fun turned up loud. You feel the sound pressure.

Your 1x12 is a JCM 4010, right? Mine doesn't sound bad at low volumes (better as it gets louder of course). If you look at the 4010 circuit, there's an extra cap across the mid pot that isn't there on a 2204. I've always understood that Marshall did that to roll off some high end to account for the 1x12 combo cab in the 4010. If your 2204 clone doesn't sound as good at low volume, maybe try placing a cap across the mid pot like on the 4010.
Click to expand...

Interesting.. wasn't aware of this and can't remember paying too much interest to the mid pot on my 4010 when I had it open. Do you have more info on what the value might be? That will save me pulling the chassis... lazy i know! I'll try google in the meantime because you are right, the 4010 sounds better at lower volumes.

So to the second part of my question, how do pro bands do it live? Do they have a small bunker they use to crank their amps?
 
Kapo_Polenton":3fs22s92 said:
cardinal":3fs22s92 said:
Things definitely get more fun turned up loud. You feel the sound pressure.

Your 1x12 is a JCM 4010, right? Mine doesn't sound bad at low volumes (better as it gets louder of course). If you look at the 4010 circuit, there's an extra cap across the mid pot that isn't there on a 2204. I've always understood that Marshall did that to roll off some high end to account for the 1x12 combo cab in the 4010. If your 2204 clone doesn't sound as good at low volume, maybe try placing a cap across the mid pot like on the 4010.
Click to expand...

Interesting.. wasn't aware of this and can't remember paying too much interest to the mid pot on my 4010 when I had it open. Do you have more info on what the value might be? That will save me pulling the chassis... lazy i know! I'll try google in the meantime because you are right, the 4010 sounds better at lower volumes.

So to the second part of my question, how do pro bands do it live? Do they have a small bunker they use to crank their amps?
Click to expand...

I would assume they have a halfstack sitting right behind the dummy amps and just let it rip. The PA volume will drown out the halfstack's volume anyway so it may not matter? Is this true guys?

Or they run it into a mic sim/direct. I've been seeing more bands doing this lately.
 
Sorry, no idea on the value of the extra cap in the 4010.
 
Funny how the brain works with loud volume. I recently had a NMV JCM800 1987 4-input head (sold it because it was insanly loud). Anyway, I turned it up to 3 or 4, which was loud, and played for a while. Then, I turned it up to 7, and it sounded really good, but I was hearing a buzzing I couldn't place. Turns out it was the blinds, vibrating in the next room!

Didn't seem THAT loud to me, until I turned it on the next day (still at 7). Scared the crap out of me!
 
Ventura":3ovhh0fm said:
I move my master to 1:00+ regularly. On my Diezels and Bogners, the amp itself doesn't get much louder after that point (the VH4 starts to taper in SPL at about 1:00, maybe a touch more, but most are noon for max SPL and then from there it's crumble and tone all the way) but it also totally changes my shaping. You can either go low MV (the usual 9:00 setting) with channel at 3:00 to get a preamp loaded signal; or, something I like to do with my Bogners for sure; crank up the MV (maybe 3:00 in some cases) and work the channel volume to taste. Obviously this isn't an "at home" scenario - this is in the bunker - our session space as of late. As the volume will rip anyone a new arhoolie if standing within 15 feet.
Click to expand...


Funny you say that V.

I had the TJ at a lake house, second floor balcony at a late night party jam. It was at about noon on the MV. Diezel cab 100's FL I believe. Blasting across the lake... Glorious natural reverb. Cops eventually came by and had some BBQ with us and we turned down a little.

She definitely screams when you pull her hair.
 
Heritage Softail":z67z1ufi said:
Funny you say that V.

I had the TJ at a lake house, second floor balcony at a late night party jam. It was at about noon on the MV. Diezel cab 100's FL I believe. Blasting across the lake... Glorious natural reverb. Cops eventually came by and had some BBQ with us and we turned down a little.

She definitely screams when you pull her hair.
Click to expand...
Yep. I love 'er.

And that "high on the MV, channel volume to taste" sure changes the dynamics of the TJ. What an incredible amp - looks and reads so simple - but not a chance, there are many MANY hidden sonic jewels in that amp.

Love it - and to this day Joe, gotta say a mega thanks for lookin' out for a fellow RT'er :salute:

Mo
 
And with respect to the above, I need to redeem myself and post some new clips of that beast that aren't laden with opiate intake, ahem.

Man, I didn't think I was that wasted... but listening to them clips - sure as shit was loaded :lol: :LOL:
 
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