My “Greenback” opinion……long post

[EyesOfTheSouth!]

Greenbacks are my favorite speaker ever and I’ve owned just about every interpretation/clone of them except for true vintage Celestions. I have a closet full of them in both 8 and 16 ohm. My review from worst to best below. As reference, I do not like g12-65’s or H magnet speakers on their own. This was not a direct A/B test, but rather based on hearing them over time in various cabs.

Starting with the worst…….,

Eminence Private Jack - Full of honky/boxy mids and a papery, 2-D sound. Much thicker/wooly than a Celestion. Only use I could imagine is if you have a really bright/thin open back combo.

Eminence GB128 - Same papery sound but thinner/tighter and extremely loud/efficient. Not greenback at all IMO. Can be cool I guess for a different sound……but not greenback.

Not an Eminence guy I guess. They all have that papery/cardboard sound. My only workable one is the CV-75….but that one is a different story.

Celestion Creamback 65 - not greenback. Fat, wooly and bloated in low mids. Bright and muddy at the same time. Enough said.

Scumback M75 - Dark and middy. No cut whatsoever. Guess it would be good for “fixing” bright/brittle, non MV amps. Just didn’t like it with my amps.

Weber Legacy M75 - See above. Maybe a hair more presence/cut on top.

WGS Green Beret - Nice speaker for other vibes, but less woody and more presence/cut than greenbacks. More modern and clinical overall. Maybe a bit sterile for some.

Scumback BM75 - Better than M75, but still too dark for me despite the marketing description.

WHS Invader 65 (I know it has an H magnet). Really good speaker in a small cab. But too “wide” and full frequency for a 4x12. Great for mixing with more cutting speakers.

Celestion EVH - Really similar to Scumback BM75 except a lot less efficient with more honk in the mids. Too polite for me. Excellent for taming a bright amp with non MV or a touchy master.

Weber “Stan Spec” 1225 - kind of dull/Scumback like at low volume. But opens up really nice with volume. Only have a pair but thinking about filling another cab.

Celestion Lynchback - Not greenback, but I’ll drop it here because it’s a fantastic speaker. Has its own thing going on……and it’s a good thing. Imagine a G12-65/Vintage 30 mix. Shame it was only made in 8 ohm or I would have a quad full.

Greenback G12M MIC - Woody and what you expect. But a bit spiky in high mids/treble that probably mellows with years of use.

WGS Invader 50 - Now we are getting somewhere. Excellent woody mids while adding tightness. Has a hint of V30 going on but stays in greenback camp. Blows away the Creamback 65 IMO since they are marketed the same.

Celestion G12C - Love this speaker. Like the above but something different going on in the mids that is hard to describe. Oddly noticeably louder than G12M despite the same 98db rating. Always looking for them on eBay/reverb.

Celestion G12M modern UK - King of the hill for me. See G12M MIC but take the high peak down a few notches. Reference speaker for me right out of the box.

I’ll add that I’ve heard people say the EVH and the G12M sound really similar. They do NOT. Maybe if placed side by side in different cabs. But try mixing them in same cab and isolating each. The EVH is much quieter and softer. The G12M eats it up with volume, mid presence, and overall clarity.

 

[ChurchHill]

Have you tried the Celestion Heritage G12M? I think they stopped making them several years ago, different than the MIC or current UK.

 

[VonBonfire]

Not an Eminence guy I guess. They all have that papery/cardboard sound. My only workable one is the CV-75….but that one is a different story.

There are quite a few models to discount them all. I have a Michigan 15" which is supposed to be an EV copy but it's a lot less power handling. It's really neutral sounding though I have it in an amp that can't push it hard. I like the sound though.

I have some PF-350's in one of my Twins. They are just now breaking in but truthfully at 350 watts power handling each were extremely stiff for quite some time, causing me to use my other Twin, which has Force 12's in it. I tried it with my newer 335 and it sounded good though.

Honestly plan on getting a couple EM12 neos at some point down the road. All the demos have them sounding nearly as good as their ceramic counterparts but a lot less weight which would be handy.

My favorite all time speakers are JBL k-120's cause they have the D-120 sound without blowing up all the time but I like EV stuff quite a bit too, as they let the amp sound come through without coloring it a whole bunch.

 

[Lightning]

So the EVH celestion wouldnt be good for the Van Halen 1 sound first album

 

[ChurchHill]

My favorite Greenbacks are actually '76 Blackbacks followed closely by a pair of late-90s UK-made 8-ohm Greenbacks that came out of a Vox AC30TB years before they came out with the Heritage series. I like those Heritage Greenbacks pretty well, too. I do agree that the EVM are darker and don't quite have the character of the others.

I really like the G12-35XC which are supposed to be like a Pulsonic Greenback. I doubt the OP would like them because IMO, they're somewhere between a G12-65 and a Greenback, and I really like G12-65s. I do agree that the H magnet just isn't for me, at least not in the G12H. I don't care for most V30s, either, but do like the K100s and CL80s.

For others, I also really like the JBL K-120s, EV SROs, and Altec 417-8H, but for rock and metal, it's really hard to beat a Celestion.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on other makes. I've never met an Eminence that I like, although some are better than others. Never tried a WGS, but Weber makes some good stuff.

All of this reminds me of something I posted on the Fractal forum a while back. I'll copy it here... the thread was about Marshall amps and what I wrote was based on real amps and speakers, not models or IRs.

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Thought I'd add some of my experiences with speakers, too. Marshall's are very dependent on what they're played through, too. I think all amps are, but the sound of certain Celestion speakers is an almost intrinsic part of the Marshall sound, probably because that's where most people first heard Celestions, in conjunction with a Marshall (I could probably say the same thing about Vox, too, though). Here are some thoughts on the ones I've used on a regular basis, all in Marshall 4x12s in my case.

G12-65 - My (second) favorite Marshall speaker. The highs are smooth but still have that Greenback bite. The lows are much more present than Greenbacks, though, and this makes for a powerful speaker. Because of that, some people say it's a little scooped, and maybe so, but I can get plenty of mids.

G12-35xc - Actually, this is my favorite Celestion, but it was a limited production and no longer available. This was supposed to be like a Pulsonic coned Greenback, but to me, it sounded a lot like a G12-65, just a little sweeter.

Alnico Blue - The Vox speaker, although Marshall used a silver painted version in the early days, too. Clean, this is bright and chimey with a stronger bass than I would've guessed (probably the sealed-back cab is part of that). My surprise was under distortion, these sound amazing (to my ears at least). Singing quality to the highs and almost seems a little scooped in the mids. IRL, you have to be careful with power because these only handle 15w each (60w for a 4x12), but with IRs that's not a concern.

Alnico Cream - This one's right up there for me with the G12-65. The highs are present without being harsh. Sounds to me like an alnico version of the 65, maybe more "vintage" but still similar. I think Celestion was going for a higher power Blue, but what they ended up with is its own beast. I'll never forget the first time I played through these, just a perfect high-gain crunch. Would be a hard choice not picking this as my favorite, right there with the 65 and 35xc.

Alnico Ruby - I actually like this speaker but seem to be in the minority. It's a little dull compared to its alnico brethren and more mid focused, but it works well to smooth out bright amps and the extra mids help with some clean sounds sometimes, too.

Alnico Gold - My opinion is again in the minority, but I actually don't like this one at all. To me, it seems bright and stiff. I'm sure there are amps where this helps, but it's just not for me. First time I tried one was about 20 years ago and I keep going back to it every few years, just to see if I've changed my mind, and so far, nope, just not for me, although your milage may vary.

G12M - The Greenback. I've tried lots of different flavors of this, old Blackbacks and Pulsonic Greenbacks, '90s reissues, Heritage, EVH, and the newer Chinese versions. While there are differences and a particular flavor may work better for a specific situation, they're all Greenbacks and they all sound great! This is probably what most people think of when they think Celestion and probably due to Eddie and all the people he influenced over the years, or Jimi, or Page, or Clapton, or, well... that's a long list. Sound wise, it's what you expect... great vocal mids, bright but not harsh, a little thin on the bass side, but a complete classic sound and for a good reason.

G12H - The heavy Greenbacks. These use a heavier magnet than G12Ms. There are two cones Celestion used, one with a resonant frequency of 75Hz and the other at 55Hz. They used all 4 combinations, too, but most people associate the M speakers with the 75Hz cone while the H speakers had fans of both cones. The heavier magnets makes these a little stiffer and a little louder. To my ears, the 55Hz cones have a great bass response, but shifting everything down a bit, the high end that gives the G12M great presence becomes a little too harsh for me. I prefer the 75Hz version, which sounds a little like a G12M on steroids. I've played old Greenbacks and Blackbacks, both versions of the Heritage series, and the G12H30 Anniversary, all variations on the same theme.

G12K100 - Used to be the G12K85 back in the 80s/90s, Celestion just decided they could actually handle 100w, so they changed the name. It's the same speaker AFAIK, though. This is another favorite of mine, big dust cap, H magnet, very strong and very tight bass with balanced mids and highs. Not too smooth and not too bright with a low end that will wreck entire neighborhoods, probably my favorite for metal, but good for just about anything.

G12T75 - Celestion says this is their most produced speaker, probably because it's in the base Marshall 1960 cabs. Opinion seems to be very divided on this one, too, and there are differences depending on when these were manufactured 80s/90s/current. Honestly, this is probably my third least favorite, but I still think it's a great speaker. The problem, I think, is that it is fairly scooped and got more so throughout the years. To my ears, the latest ones can get kind of fizzy on the top, too, but that smooths out as the speaker is broken in. I've found the key to getting good sounds out of these is in dialing in the amp to work with them... too scooped? Add more mids. Too fizzy? Balance Treble and Presence. It's all part of a system. I think the reason why I usually prefer other Celestions is because they are so ubiquitous, they've become a little generic sounding, at least to me. These do pair nicely with other speakers, too.

G12M-65 - The new Creambacks. These sound really good, somewhere between a Greenback and a G12-65. The lows are firmer, like the 65 and the mids/highs have more of that vocal/woody quality that Greenbacks have. Certainly, one of my favorites. The only thing I've found is that it doesn't seem to work with all amps. My Marshalls seem happy, but my Bogners are a little too smooth or a little too harsh when paired with this one. It's weird, but it's not the only speaker known to be finicky when it comes to the amps it likes. With the Marshalls, this one can scream!

Vintage 30 - Another one that seems to polarize people's opinions. Personally, I have a love/hate relationship with this one. I've got these in a 1960V cab and a couple of oversized Mesas, all from the early 2000s, and they are some of the best cabs I've ever heard. I've had these in several other cabs and found them to be grating and quickly fatiguing. Maybe there's something to the speculation that Celestion made them a little differently 20 years ago, and changed things again when production moved to China, IDK. What I do know is that they all seem to get better after they've been used a LOT. There's an upper-mid spike in them that is very recognizable. Cuts through a mix very well, but just plain harsh, in my opinion. Maybe it's just that they like some amps more than others, but a good speaker in the right situation.

I've tried a few others, like G12-50s, G12M70s, G12-100s, G12-80s, Classic Lead 80s. There are a few that I haven't tried and would like to at some point, like the Sidewinder and the G12H75 Creamback. I've also got a set of the new Celestion 100s that I haven't installed yet.

 

[Rottweiler]

I have a 425B with the G12Cs. I agree they sound great to my ears but all of my amps are el34 or Marshall low wattage. I will also say that I've noticed that a lot of my speakers sound better with more hours on them. Most notibly my P50Es. I also recently picked up a Friedman G12M65 1x12 and I hear some similarities to your description but I imagine it will change a little as it breaks in.

I also noticed that different amps bring out different qualities in my cabs. So much so that I want to get a cab switcher so that I can hear the difference immediately. I should probably just plug in and practice instead of tweaking!

I will say that a dimed class 5 combo sounds great and not flubby into the G12M65. It was such a good match, that I'm going to look into 10" options for the combo. It also helped tame the high end without loosing the Marshall presence. I also ran it loud with a PS100.

 

[ChurchHill]

Anyone know if the G10 Greenback (somehow feels wrong calling a 10" speaker a Greenback) is anything like the real thing?

 

[Rottweiler]

I think there is a video of every Celestion speaker on YT. They had 10" in there but I don't remember how they sounded

 

[Rottweiler]

4:26:09

 

[Racerxrated]

Have you tried the Celestion Heritage G12M? I think they stopped making them several years ago, different than the MIC or current UK.

The Heritage 20w is the exact same speaker as the EVH.

 

[Racerxrated]

Greenbacks are my favorite speaker ever and I’ve owned just about every interpretation/clone of them except for true vintage Celestions. I have a closet full of them in both 8 and 16 ohm. My review from worst to best below. As reference, I do not like g12-65’s or H magnet speakers on their own. This was not a direct A/B test, but rather based on hearing them over time in various cabs.

Starting with the worst…….,

Eminence Private Jack - Full of honky/boxy mids and a papery, 2-D sound. Much thicker/wooly than a Celestion. Only use I could imagine is if you have a really bright/thin open back combo.

Eminence GB128 - Same papery sound but thinner/tighter and extremely loud/efficient. Not greenback at all IMO. Can be cool I guess for a different sound……but not greenback.

Not an Eminence guy I guess. They all have that papery/cardboard sound. My only workable one is the CV-75….but that one is a different story.

Celestion Creamback 65 - not greenback. Fat, wooly and bloated in low mids. Bright and muddy at the same time. Enough said.

Scumback M75 - Dark and middy. No cut whatsoever. Guess it would be good for “fixing” bright/brittle, non MV amps. Just didn’t like it with my amps.

Weber Legacy M75 - See above. Maybe a hair more presence/cut on top.

WGS Green Beret - Nice speaker for other vibes, but less woody and more presence/cut than greenbacks. More modern and clinical overall. Maybe a bit sterile for some.

Scumback BM75 - Better than M75, but still too dark for me despite the marketing description.

WHS Invader 65 (I know it has an H magnet). Really good speaker in a small cab. But too “wide” and full frequency for a 4x12. Great for mixing with more cutting speakers.

Celestion EVH - Really similar to Scumback BM75 except a lot less efficient with more honk in the mids. Too polite for me. Excellent for taming a bright amp with non MV or a touchy master.

Weber “Stan Spec” 1225 - kind of dull/Scumback like at low volume. But opens up really nice with volume. Only have a pair but thinking about filling another cab.

Celestion Lynchback - Not greenback, but I’ll drop it here because it’s a fantastic speaker. Has its own thing going on……and it’s a good thing. Imagine a G12-65/Vintage 30 mix. Shame it was only made in 8 ohm or I would have a quad full.

Greenback G12M MIC - Woody and what you expect. But a bit spiky in high mids/treble that probably mellows with years of use.

WGS Invader 50 - Now we are getting somewhere. Excellent woody mids while adding tightness. Has a hint of V30 going on but stays in greenback camp. Blows away the Creamback 65 IMO since they are marketed the same.

Celestion G12C - Love this speaker. Like the above but something different going on in the mids that is hard to describe. Oddly noticeably louder than G12M despite the same 98db rating. Always looking for them on eBay/reverb.

Celestion G12M modern UK - King of the hill for me. See G12M MIC but take the high peak down a few notches. Reference speaker for me right out of the box.

I’ll add that I’ve heard people say the EVH and the G12M sound really similar. They do NOT. Maybe if placed side by side in different cabs. But try mixing them in same cab and isolating each. The EVH is much quieter and softer. The G12M eats it up with volume, mid presence, and overall clarity.

I have a Heritage 20(exact same speaker as the EVH) and it out muscles every GB I have here that is a modern version...6402, UK M25, MiC M25, you name it. Maybe this is from a different batch than your EVH? I am going to buy an EVH to pair up with it so I'll find out.
I also had a Vintage Modern B cab with the G12Cs, that was a killer cab and I regretted selling it long ago...but, I'd buy another 2 and neither one sounded even close to that first one. Headscratcher.

But, I highly recommend going for a Pulsonic GB to hear what a REAL GB should sound like lol. They are special.

 

[ChurchHill]

That's what I'd always heard, but I have both and IME the EVH is darker. Sounds more worn in. I still like them, but the Heritage right next to them are a touch brighter to my ears. They are not worlds apart, though, and it wouldn't surprise me if they started off as the same speaker and were either worn in a bit or treated in someway that they sounds just a little different. Or maybe it was just variances in the batches.

 

[ners]

I'm surprised you rate the Scumback so middle of the road