Need Bogner with VERY quiet stage vol!...which Palmer??

[SQUAREHEAD]

I have looked into my problem and everyone seems to point me here...

Palmer PDI-03

Palmer PGA-04?

Palmer DPI-03/04?

I need to get a half decent tone outta my Bogner 100B head without making a noise on the stage. Ear pieces are used ... blah blah blah - Everything I hate, you know??!!

Anyone who can help me, please??
This is all new to me!

Keith

 

[glpg80]

PDI-03 is a reissue - EVH used one live and so do many other well known artists.

IMHO i prefer the faustine phantom - it is reactance based and its way better sounding than the palmer gear. if you can wait for it id suggest the phantom.

FWIW i originally had a slave rig designed around a PDI-03 and the new phantom that was just released kills the PDI-03 in recording quality. just my .02.

 

[steve_k]

The Palmer stuff is more for DI/Split/Recording. The 03/04 have loads built in for that, but I don't think they were marketed as an attenuator, although they can be used that way because of the load. I have owned 2 of the ADIG models and used them for DI to FOH and split to the cabs. You can model the DI to the FOH or recording gear, which is where the 03 made its mark.

Steve

 

[glpg80]

The Palmer stuff is more for DI/Split/Recording. The 03/04 have loads built in for that, but I don't think they were marketed as an attenuator, although they can be used that way because of the load. I have owned 2 of the ADIG models and used them for DI to FOH and split to the cabs. You can model the DI to the FOH or recording gear, which is where the 03 made its mark.

Steve

thats how eddie ran his live rig, wet left, palmer speaker modeling dry, amp dry, wet right

the FOH mixed all 4 channels together to get his live sound.

 

[Nico]

Get a Bogner Panama!!!

 

[degenaro]

PDI-03 is a reissue - EVH used one live and so do many other well known artists.

IMHO i prefer the faustine phantom - it is reactance based and its way better sounding than the palmer gear. if you can wait for it id suggest the phantom.

FWIW i originally had a slave rig designed around a PDI-03 and the new phantom that was just released kills the PDI-03 in recording quality. just my .02.

you keep referring to this...have you opened a Palmer up? As a load it's quite nice, and since he's asking about in ears no stage volume why waste money on an attenuator without a speaker sim when he needs a load with speaker sim?

 

[degenaro]

I have looked into my problem and everyone seems to point me here...

Palmer PDI-03

Palmer PGA-04?

Palmer DPI-03/04?

I need to get a half decent tone outta my Bogner 100B head without making a noise on the stage. Ear pieces are used ... blah blah blah - Everything I hate, you know??!!

Anyone who can help me, please??
This is all new to me!

Keith

The consensus seems to be that the 03 is great and the 04 sucks. That said the 04 has saved many a recording date with engineers that have no clue about distorted guitar in my life.
Also it lets you dial in the eq a bit more than the 03 from what I recall.

Alternate options...
Two Note Torpedo...ask Shark Diver..he uses it...basically a load with speaker impulses..

or...any load into any sim...

 

[glpg80]

PDI-03 is a reissue - EVH used one live and so do many other well known artists.

IMHO i prefer the faustine phantom - it is reactance based and its way better sounding than the palmer gear. if you can wait for it id suggest the phantom.

FWIW i originally had a slave rig designed around a PDI-03 and the new phantom that was just released kills the PDI-03 in recording quality. just my .02.

you keep referring to this...have you opened a Palmer up? As a load it's quite nice, and since he's asking about in ears no stage volume why waste money on an attenuator without a speaker sim when he needs a load with speaker sim?

yes i have. i have seen schematics of each, and actually palmer which is a german company copied the load design from aspen pittman who designed the first load box. the schematic is the same, and aspen had a copyright and patent on the design. he meant to take the german company palmer to court over it but due to starting his company with tubes didnt have the financial ability to pay the fees and lawyers so the product stands here today.

the new phantom has got a speaker simulator on it. pete thorn also has done a review of the product, and it flat kills anything palmer could think about doing with load attenuation or speaker simulation. the new phantom even kills a straight mic cab comparison using one of scumback's speakers.

dont believe me - pete's got the lowdown. let your ears decide. i know electronically and recording wise piece versus piece the faustine phantom is a better load AND a better speaker simulator.

 

[degenaro]

PDI-03 is a reissue - EVH used one live and so do many other well known artists.

IMHO i prefer the faustine phantom - it is reactance based and its way better sounding than the palmer gear. if you can wait for it id suggest the phantom.

FWIW i originally had a slave rig designed around a PDI-03 and the new phantom that was just released kills the PDI-03 in recording quality. just my .02.

you keep referring to this...have you opened a Palmer up? As a load it's quite nice, and since he's asking about in ears no stage volume why waste money on an attenuator without a speaker sim when he needs a load with speaker sim?

yes i have. i have seen schematics of each, and actually palmer which is a german company copied the load design from aspen pittman who designed the first load box. the schematic is the same, and aspen had a copyright and patent on the design. he meant to take the german company palmer to court over it but due to starting his company with tubes didnt have the financial ability to pay the fees and lawyers so the product stands here today.

the new phantom has got a speaker simulator on it. pete thorn also has done a review of the product, and it flat kills anything palmer could think about doing with load attenuation or speaker simulation. the new phantom even kills a straight mic cab comparison using one of scumback's speakers.

dont believe me - pete's got the lowdown. let your ears decide. i know electronically and recording wise piece versus piece the faustine phantom is a better load AND a better speaker simulator.

So, you've seen the schematic? Not what I asked.
Also, please quit with the half assed MI info. Aspen certainly was not the first to design a laod box...try ohmite resistor.
Also Palmer used to build amps a long time ago...cool high gainers actually.

So, while the Phantom may "kill anything Palmer could think up" as you put it...how long is the wait on an attenuator that's the 2 times what i paid for my last Super Lead 5 years ago?

 

[glpg80]

PDI-03 is a reissue - EVH used one live and so do many other well known artists.

IMHO i prefer the faustine phantom - it is reactance based and its way better sounding than the palmer gear. if you can wait for it id suggest the phantom.

FWIW i originally had a slave rig designed around a PDI-03 and the new phantom that was just released kills the PDI-03 in recording quality. just my .02.

you keep referring to this...have you opened a Palmer up? As a load it's quite nice, and since he's asking about in ears no stage volume why waste money on an attenuator without a speaker sim when he needs a load with speaker sim?

yes i have. i have seen schematics of each, and actually palmer which is a german company copied the load design from aspen pittman who designed the first load box. the schematic is the same, and aspen had a copyright and patent on the design. he meant to take the german company palmer to court over it but due to starting his company with tubes didnt have the financial ability to pay the fees and lawyers so the product stands here today.

the new phantom has got a speaker simulator on it. pete thorn also has done a review of the product, and it flat kills anything palmer could think about doing with load attenuation or speaker simulation. the new phantom even kills a straight mic cab comparison using one of scumback's speakers.

dont believe me - pete's got the lowdown. let your ears decide. i know electronically and recording wise piece versus piece the faustine phantom is a better load AND a better speaker simulator.

So, you've seen the schematic? Not what I asked.
Also, please quit with the half assed MI info. Aspen certainly was not the first to design a laod box...try ohmite resistor.
Also Palmer used to build amps a long time ago...cool high gainers actually.

So, while the Phantom may "kill anything Palmer could think up" as you put it...how long is the wait on an attenuator that's the 2 times what i paid for my last Super Lead 5 years ago?

you asked if i had opened one up? how is comparing the product to the schematic that aspen pittman designed in the patent office not accountable for an answer? explain your logic.

aspen designed the electronics PDI-03 is using for a load - not palmer. palmer took aspen's patent which still stands to this day, i can give you the patent number if you want to look it up, and therefore is the reason why the PDI-03 is the best sounding piece palmer makes, because they didnt even design the damn thing. it was made to run off of the power coming from the amplifier.

i could care less who made the first attenuator. as far as palmer high-gainer's that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[degenaro]

PDI-03 is a reissue - EVH used one live and so do many other well known artists.

IMHO i prefer the faustine phantom - it is reactance based and its way better sounding than the palmer gear. if you can wait for it id suggest the phantom.

FWIW i originally had a slave rig designed around a PDI-03 and the new phantom that was just released kills the PDI-03 in recording quality. just my .02.

you keep referring to this...have you opened a Palmer up? As a load it's quite nice, and since he's asking about in ears no stage volume why waste money on an attenuator without a speaker sim when he needs a load with speaker sim?

yes i have. i have seen schematics of each, and actually palmer which is a german company copied the load design from aspen pittman who designed the first load box. the schematic is the same, and aspen had a copyright and patent on the design. he meant to take the german company palmer to court over it but due to starting his company with tubes didnt have the financial ability to pay the fees and lawyers so the product stands here today.

the new phantom has got a speaker simulator on it. pete thorn also has done a review of the product, and it flat kills anything palmer could think about doing with load attenuation or speaker simulation. the new phantom even kills a straight mic cab comparison using one of scumback's speakers.

dont believe me - pete's got the lowdown. let your ears decide. i know electronically and recording wise piece versus piece the faustine phantom is a better load AND a better speaker simulator.

So, you've seen the schematic? Not what I asked.
Also, please quit with the half assed MI info. Aspen certainly was not the first to design a laod box...try ohmite resistor.
Also Palmer used to build amps a long time ago...cool high gainers actually.

So, while the Phantom may "kill anything Palmer could think up" as you put it...how long is the wait on an attenuator that's the 2 times what i paid for my last Super Lead 5 years ago?

you asked if i had opened one up? how is comparing the product to the schematic that aspen pittman designed in the patent office not accountable for an answer? explain your logic.

aspen designed the electronics PDI-03 is using for a load - not palmer. palmer took aspen's patent which still stands to this day, i can give you the patent number if you want to look it up, and therefore is the reason why the PDI-03 is the best sounding piece palmer makes, because they didnt even design the damn thing. it was made to run off of the power coming from the amplifier.

i could care less who made the first attenuator. as far as palmer high-gainer's that has nothing to do with the topic.

Because the GT box...Aspen did come out with is nothing like the Palmer, more importantly the the company that Aspen tried to go after was Marshall...get your facts straight.
Nobody was talking about the first attenuator...that woulda been Altair, I was talking loads.
Where do you get your info? Google? Your posts have often so much factual misinformation I gotta wonder...

 

[glpg80]

no, my info is cold hard facts. aspen's patent for the load is exactly what palmer used when they first released the PDI-03, and you are more than welcome to call aspen and ask about the lawsuit if you are curious, you dont have to take my word for it at all.

i am un-aware of anything marshall and aspen had lawsuit wise. as far as i know (which in your opinion is about as worthless as a bent penny) i am talking about a different problem.

circuit wise it is exactly the same on the load side of the palmer - the knobs on the front of the palmer are nothing more than tweaked low pass and high pass filters - different idea than aspen's product.

 

[degenaro]

no, my info is cold hard facts. aspen's patent for the load is exactly what palmer used when they first released the PDI-03, and you are more than welcome to call aspen and ask about the lawsuit if you are curious, you dont have to take my word for it at all.

i am un-aware of anything marshall and aspen had lawsuit wise. i am talking about a different problem.

circuit wise it is exactly the same on the load side of the palmer - the knobs on the front of the palmer are nothing more than tweaked low pass and high pass filters - different idea than aspen's product.

Double check your facts, since you're talking about a general design thing...expired like 5 6 years ago, really thing Fender who owns GT now wouldn't have Palmer stop production.
Not sure where you got the idea that Aspen had no funds to sue, because he went after Marshall and Rocktron (Juice Extractor) hardcore...and got them to stop. But again this has less to do with the load's design than marketing. That's why that is the patent, the load...so he was able to market the speaker emulation concept. But what do I know, not like I know anything about loads and attenuation...


However I'm not even sure how the load has anything to do with what the sim sounds like since you can disable the load. And if that's the only similarity you claim to the GT box then what?
Back to the OP's question....the difference between the 04 and 03 are the 03 only hase the 3 preset switches, the 04 has pots, both are designed around the bulb...

 

[degenaro]

Correction seems the 03 is a L-Pad/resistor and the 04 is the light bulb.

 

[Shark Diver]

Ed's right, I love the Two-Note stuff. It's worth it for me $ wise and gear hauling wise.

But for the same $ an Axe Fx would be good and much less to haul.

I like the Palmer 03 more than the 04 for emulation. Though as stated the 04 is more tweakable.

Friedman said he liked the 04 better as a load. And the Phantom DX with emulation may never be mass produced. Though Dave said it was really good. I might get one tomorrow to mess with so who knows?

 

[hunter]

The 100B has an internal load, couldn't you just switch that in and then run it through any speaker sim, even The Junction.

 

[eternal_idol]

can anyone compair the hotplate to the palmer? these are the two i have the most interest in.

Cheers

 

[duesentrieb]

It was GT vs. the Marshall SE-100.

Palmer uses a total different design, a mix of halo-lamps and resistors for the load while the Marshall and the GT have Rs and inductors.

 

[jlbaxe]

can anyone compair the hotplate to the palmer? these are the two i have the most interest in.

Cheers

I have a Palmer 04 and a THD 8 ohm.

The THD 8 ohm (Lack of ) sound works great with the Mesa Mk III that I have but SUCKS on my 20th X.

The Palmer 04 sounds great with both amps and I can run it direct into my Apogee Duet for recording on my Mac and adjust the Eq for a mic'd cab tone. Also has the XLR out that can run to front of house wether you Attenuate the head or plug a cable in and bypass the attenuation into a cab. The only draw back is you cant adjust the db volume like on the THD or other similar units. So for the cost it is a great unit if you want silent and or FOH with the ability to EQ a mic'd cab.

If you have any kind of rack setup then the Palmer is pretty much perfect for no volume out of the head otherwise you have a Attenuator box that you can adjust +/-DBs sitting on your amp head.

 

[Pickup]

You could use a hotplate for a dummyload and get a pdI09 to go direct to board.