Need help with a guitar setup issue.

[VaporDemon]

To start I just want to state I've been doing my own setups/repairs/modifications on guitars for at least 25 years and really don't run into issues that I can't fix that often. This problem has me stumped and I would like to get some input from others before I have to take it to a shop.

The guitar is a Vola Joss Allen model, basically a 25.5" scale super strat style guitar with HSS pickups and a gotoh 510 two point trem. I am using 10-52 gauge strings in Drop C tuning. Nut slots are perfectly cut and tuning stability is great. It sounds and plays great mostly but I'm getting more than usual string buzz on the low string.

My relief is set to around .18mm measured at the 7th fret holding down the 1st and 17th frets, the action on the low string is around 1.6mm at the 12th fret. the open string is fine but from about the 2nd fret to the 12th fret the buzz is beyond an acceptable amount. Not completely dead notes but definitely affecting the sound through the amp. If I fret the string with excessive pressure and push the note extremely sharp the buzz mostly goes away and if I hit the string very very lightly like barely at all it's mostly gone.

My only other thought which I haven't tried is to up the gauge a bit on the low string. I actually love the feel of the 10-52's in drop C and its great for heavy vibrato with pinch harmonics. I tend to be heavy handed with my right hand when playing so I could probably stand to increase the gauge a tad but I would like to keep it somewhat slinky because the response and tone is exactly what I love. The only other thing I could think of was to increase relief a bunch but that's creating issues with intonation and fretted notes being too inconsistent even with a lighter grip on my left hand. The other thing I haven't tried was lowering the action since it would seem like the opposite of what you would do with buzz but someone mentioned if the string angle is too high it could affect the way the string contacts the fret causing buzz at the fret i'm playing. It's weird because it doesn't look like the strings vibration is hitting any other frets above the fret I am playing so I don't understand what's buzzing lol!

Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated, Thanks

 

[PDC]

First thing that comes to mind is whether or not there are any barely - as in 'micro' - high frets particularly at the bass side of the neck. A straight edge or fret rocker would answer that question. Another thought is if there is anything ever so slightly loose like a pickup ring or other hardware, adjustment screw in the bridge, anything slightly loose that is exaggerated with the natural vibration of the thicker 52 strig tuned to C that is perceived as fret buzz. I once had a bundle of wires in the control cavity of a strat style guitar just barely touching the underside of the pickguard that would vibrate only under limited circumstances and it was HELL to chase down and identify. In the hot rod world, many a competent mechanic has re-lashed valves chasing what they swear is lifter noise only to later determine a leaking exhaust manifold gasket. The leaking exhaust pulses can sound exactly like a ticking lifter. Same idea hear here to look slightly off the path for the source of the vibration.

 

[VaporDemon]

First thing that comes to mind is whether or not there are any barely - as in 'micro' - high frets particularly at the bass side of the neck. A straight edge or fret rocker would answer that question. Another thought is if there is anything ever so slightly loose like a pickup ring or other hardware, adjustment screw in the bridge, anything slightly loose that is exaggerated with the natural vibration of the thicker 52 strig tuned to C that is perceived s fret buzz. I once had a bundle of wires in the control cavity of a strat style guitar just barely touching the underside of the pickguard that would vibrate only under limited circumstances and it was HELL to chase down and identify. In the hot rod world, many a competent mechanic has re-lashed valves chasing what they swear is lifter noise only to later determine a leaking exhaust manifold gasket. The leaking exhaust pulses can sound exactly like a ticking lifter. Same idea hear here to look slightly off the path for the source of the vibration.

Yeah I checked the frets with a rocker and they’re fine. I do know what you mean about it being something not string and fret related. I am also familiar with how it relates to tracking something down with hot rods. I’ve worked in automotive and power sports my whole life. Phantom noises are a menace especially on something with lots of rumble. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[VaporDemon]

First thing that comes to mind is whether or not there are any barely - as in 'micro' - high frets particularly at the bass side of the neck. A straight edge or fret rocker would answer that question. Another thought is if there is anything ever so slightly loose like a pickup ring or other hardware, adjustment screw in the bridge, anything slightly loose that is exaggerated with the natural vibration of the thicker 52 strig tuned to C that is perceived as fret buzz. I once had a bundle of wires in the control cavity of a strat style guitar just barely touching the underside of the pickguard that would vibrate only under limited circumstances and it was HELL to chase down and identify. In the hot rod world, many a competent mechanic has re-lashed valves chasing what they swear is lifter noise only to later determine a leaking exhaust manifold gasket. The leaking exhaust pulses can sound exactly like a ticking lifter. Same idea hear here to look slightly off the path for the source of the vibration.

Something I just noticed while playing this guitar is if I push forward from behind the neck a little bit or if I hold the guitar vertically at a certain angle and try playing it’s not buzzing at all anymore. As soon as I put it in playing position on my lap it’s buzzing again. Maybe it does need the increased relief but I need to refine my playing technique to compensate.

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

Something I just noticed while playing this guitar is if I push forward from behind the neck a little bit or if I hold the guitar vertically at a certain angle and try playing it’s not buzzing at all anymore. As soon as I put it in playing position on my lap it’s buzzing again. Maybe it does need the increased relief but I need to refine my playing technique to compensate.

Because you’re providing relief. The 25.5” scale just wasn’t designed for .52 in mind go this reason, and it’s clear with the evolution of longer scale lengths for bigger strings.

 

[VaporDemon]

Because you’re providing relief. The 25.5” scale just wasn’t designed for .52 in mind go this reason, and it’s clear with the evolution of longer scale lengths for bigger strings.

I get what you’re saying it’s just frustrating since I’ve had a bunch of 25.5” scale guitars in Drop C with a .052 low string and this wasn’t an issue.

I will have to try upping the relief a bit and try to find the sweet spot so it’s not affecting the feel and playability and I will also have to try a slightly bigger gauge if the relief alone doesn’t cut it. I know a lot of guys use 11-56 for drop c on a 25.5” scale but that’s a bit too stiff for the type of bends and vibrato I play so I’m going to try to go .054 if I end up going that route. Thanks for the comment!

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

I get what you’re saying it’s just frustrating since I’ve had a bunch of 25.5” scale guitars in Drop C with a .052 low string and this wasn’t an issue.

I will have to try upping the relief a bit and try to find the sweet spot so it’s not affecting the feel and playability and I will also have to try a slightly bigger gauge if the relief alone doesn’t cut it. I know a lot of guys use 11-56 for drop c on a 25.5” scale but that’s a bit too stiff for the type of bends and vibrato I play so I’m going to try to go .054 if I end up going that route. Thanks for the comment!

And then add in Drop C… it’s gonna buzz.
Can’t imagine how a big thick slacked string hitting the frets could do that?/s

 

[VaporDemon]

Ok so thanks for the comments and input everyone. I got it sorted. I bumped the relief up to .20mm and the suggestion someone gave me about lowering the action actually helped it just enough to get it where I want it! I see what they mean about the angle of the string from the fret to the bridge. After a certain height, if it’s too high it can change the contact point on the fret and it is further away from the center of the fret crown. This is of course dependent upon the crowning of the fret and how its final shaping is done. It’s only a fraction of a mm but still can add to the problem. Not only is the buzzing issue fixed but there’s more clarity and definition now. I’m always learning something new and it’s great to overcome these challenges.

 

[VaporDemon]

And then add in Drop C… it’s gonna buzz.
Can’t imagine how a big thick slacked string hitting the frets could do that?/s

I got it sorted thankfully but as for the Drop C and thick slacked string it’s really not been an issue for me before this situation I had. I’ve seen people running anywhere from a .048 all the way up to a .062 for Drop C in this scale length without major buzzing. I still may try a .054 for the low string just to see how it feels and sounds but at least it’s playable for now.

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

I get what you’re saying it’s just frustrating since I’ve had a bunch of 25.5” scale guitars in Drop C with a .052 low string and this wasn’t an issue.

I will have to try upping the relief a bit and try to find the sweet spot so it’s not affecting the feel and playability and I will also have to try a slightly bigger gauge if the relief alone doesn’t cut it. I know a lot of guys use 11-56 for drop c on a 25.5” scale but that’s a bit too stiff for the type of bends and vibrato I play so I’m going to try to go .054 if I end up going that route. Thanks for the comment!

I got it sorted thankfully but as for the Drop C and thick slacked string it’s really not been an issue for me before this situation I had. I’ve seen people running anywhere from a .048 all the way up to a .062 for Drop C in this scale length without major buzzing. I still may try a .054 for the low string just to see how it feels and sounds but at least it’s playable for now.

Awesome!