Need input on what amp to use in a band situation

[racerevlon]

As many of you know I have an amp or two. I recently started jamming in a band with another guitar player. His rig consists of a Metallica-Mod MarkIV into a Marshall 1960BV (V30's).

I took a Crate Blue Voodoo cab over (filled with Mesa V30's) and am having a hard time finding an amp that works well & blends, while still cutting through the mix. So far I've tried H&K Trilogy (not bad), Splawn Quick Rod (Best so far), JCA100H (2nd best so far), and Herbert (4xEL34, 2x6L6--worst so far). I'm baffled by how poorly some of these great-sounding amps sound in a band setting. Is it possibly the speaker pairing? Any ideas what speakers might work better with the listed amps, or is it possible the cab is just junk (rear-loaded). Guitars/pickups used are mainly Ibanez RG760 with either Dimarzio Super 3 or Crunch Lab in the bridge.

I am seriously scratching my head on this one and any input, tips, experience is greatly appreciated.

 

[Ventura]

As many of you know I have an amp or two. I recently started jamming in a band with another guitar player. His rig consists of a Metallica-Mod MarkIV into a Marshall 1960BV (V30's).

I took a Crate Blue Voodoo cab over (filled with Mesa V30's) and am having a hard time finding an amp that works well & blends, while still cutting through the mix. So far I've tried H&K Trilogy (not bad), Splawn Quick Rod (Best so far), JCA100H (2nd best so far), and Herbert (4xEL34, 2x6L6--worst so far). I'm baffled by how poorly some of these great-sounding amps sound in a band setting. Is it possibly the speaker pairing? Any ideas what speakers might work better with the listed amps, or is it possible the cab is just junk (rear-loaded). Guitars/pickups used are mainly Ibanez RG760 with either Dimarzio Super 3 or Crunch Lab in the bridge.

I am seriously scratching my head on this one and any input, tips, experience is greatly appreciated.

Go with the Splawn, roll back the preamp gain, turn up the mids, and try it again with the same cab. You'll wanna go through the motions one-amp-at-a-time with the same cabinet; otherwise you have no reference point. If the Splawn sounded good to you on first measure, stick with it and tweak the snot out of it. I've found in the past that competing hi-gainers doesn't work in a gig/jam setting. Less is more. Gain compresses, compression lacks cut, yada yada. The V30 cab should, by the nature of its cones, have some bite to it. So ya, I'd say go with the Splawn, roll back the gain and crank the mids, and rely on your bassist to fill in the floor.

Peace
V.

 

[Digital Jams]

That Splawn should be cutting with no issues against a MK IV.

No experience with the BV cab so I have nothing there.

 

[racerevlon]

Which brings us to the next question: Splawn--Quick Rod (EL34) or Nitro (KT88)?

Further to that, why did Herbert do so poorly? Might the VH4 do better?

 

[JakeAC5253]

I used to own a Crate cabinet. Ugh, it was the worst sounding piece of equipment that I have ever owned. Alright, given that it had cheap speakers in it and not Mesa V30's, but I honestly couldn't imagine putting speakers that nice into that shit cab that I used to own. It just isn't right, wouldn't do them justice. I haven't used a QR, so I can't comment on its tonal presence, but honestly I've never heard of anyone complaining that a 5150 couldn't cut right through and be heard. I would try to get your hands on one of those if you liked the QR but maybe didn't love it. I would also definitely put some money into getting a high quality unloaded (since you already have the speakers) cabinet. Think about it, the higher you take the volume on the amp, the more a crappy cabinets flaws are going to be accentuated.

 

[Ventura]

Which brings us to the next question: Splawn--Quick Rod (EL34) or Nitro (KT88)?

Further to that, why did Herbert do so poorly? Might the VH4 do better?

The V will hammer the tar outta the other heads on that stage. Guaranteed.

Can't speak about the Herb, there was another thread about it not cutting it on stage. Could be the mid cut, could be a number of things. Another point though is to let up on the bass of the amp when playing in a band context and go large on presence and mids. And roll back the gain.

BUT, going back to EL34s versus KT88s, if you're pressing the envelope with the master volume, EL34s sound way tastier when they break up.

My 2 cents regardless - YMMV,
V.

 

[155]

dual recto?

 

[racerevlon]

My VH4 has 6550s on board. Still think it'll get the job done?

I have some new speakers coming in, so maybe I'll try swapping some speakers around, or swap it out for a better cab.

 

[Ventura]

My VH4 has 6550s on board. Still think it'll get the job done?

I have some new speakers coming in, so maybe I'll try swapping some speakers around, or swap it out for a better cab.

No doubt about it. Seriously, NO doubt it'll slay

V.

 

[racerevlon]

Incoming speakers are 2 Splawn Small Blocks and one Big Block.

 

[glpg80]

dual recto?

+1

or a 5150, a SLO, or a mid boost into the front of the KT88

the splawn quick rod with V30's should cut like a knife with the mids up on the splawn, there is no way in hell anything could drown that out IMHO. i would try that first, if more gain is needed on your end then try boosting the front of the QR, if that does not work, do an EQ boost of a frown into the front of the KT88.

 

[steve_k]

I am not sure any of the amps you listed will compete with a Mark IV in any setting.

Steve

 

[racerevlon]

I am not sure any of the amps you listed will compete with a Mark IV in any setting.

Steve

1. I agree
2. Not so much looking to compete as complement so that one doesn't drown out the other, or that they don't sound SO similar that they're indistinguishable.

Make sense?

 

[steve_k]

I am not sure any of the amps you listed will compete with a Mark IV in any setting.

Steve

1. I agree
2. Not so much looking to compete as complement so that one doesn't drown out the other, or that they don't sound SO similar that they're indistinguishable.

Make sense?

I mean its going to be tough to do, especially if he is set up with the GEQ engaged with lots of bottom end and searing top end. I don't think a cab is your problem. Probably, to get tonally where you want to be or are used to being when by yourself, you may be getting too loud? That's one reason I have always been the lone guitar player. I am not competing nor is anyone competing with me.

Of all those, I would say that your Herbie is probably the best bet. You can match and compliment the bottom end and lower mids of the Mesa. But, you may need something to push the top end up when you need to punch through. Maybe jump the loop. Maybe kick the second master in for a boost or small OD boost with a little top end punch in it.

Or, you find your tone and have him come up to compliment you.

Steve

 

[glpg80]

I am not sure any of the amps you listed will compete with a Mark IV in any setting.

Steve

1. I agree
2. Not so much looking to compete as complement so that one doesn't drown out the other, or that they don't sound SO similar that they're indistinguishable.

Make sense?

I mean its going to be tough to do, especially if he is set up with the GEQ engaged with lots of bottom end and searing top end. I don't think a cab is your problem. Probably, to get tonally where you want to be or are used to being when by yourself, you may be getting too loud? That's one reason I have always been the lone guitar player. I am not competing nor is anyone competing with me.

Of all those, I would say that your Herbie is probably the best bet.

Steve

the JCM800 combo a rhythm guitarist was playing, with the lead guitarist running a diezel cabinet/herbert combo, the JCM800 ate the herbert for breakfast even with the solo boosts on. you couldnt hear the herbert at all except for cleans. unless racerx owns a mark II herbert, i would suggest the splawn with a fat ass boost in the front over a complex toned, easily walked herbert.

thats not saying herberts dont sound great. their voicing sounds great recorded in the studio. put them in a band setting and you get the same problems as another user on the forum is having with his herbert posted right here on rig-talk not 3 days ago.

i have seen many more threads about herberts NOT cutting than i have splawns.

.02

 

[Rushtallica]

If possible, I'd go with the opposite character -- the Splawn and el34's, which should have a different mid-emphasis to help in cut and compliment. If you have an eq pedal, you can always bring it along to throw in the loop in case a little more tweaking might help.

 

[threadkiller]

What style of music are you playing?

For somchuggachuggae reachunkachunkachunkason certachuggachuggachuggachuggain typchunkaes of muchuggachuggasic are chunka hard chuggachugga to get chunkachunka clechuggachuggaan souchunkachunkanding live

 

[Random Hero]

"Metallica-mod"??

 

[Shawn Lutz]

the cab will make big difference regardless of the speakers in it. Replace the cab and try it again...

 

[petejt]

"Metallica-mod"??

I'm wondering what this means too.




And also- is the Crate cab wired in phase? Check it to make sure. Also be careful when using an amp that has a different number of gain stages to another amp- ie if your amp has an even number of gain stages (e.g. 4), and you play alongside an amp that has an odd number of gain stages (e.g. 5 or 3), then they can be out of phase. It's tricky.