Neumann U87

[johnnyjellybean]

I still think that a cheap Large Diaphragm condenser mic with an upgraded or custom wound transformer is going to sound better than a mic that cost around a thousand or more. Haven't tried it though, still a theory. Would love to test it some day.

Think all you want. Been there done that. Nothing like a vintage 87

 

[Seitz333]

As for mic pre's my next one will either be an API 512c or a GreatRiver MP-1NV. As for mic's take a look at Peluso.

Chuck

 

[JakeAC5253]

I still think that a cheap Large Diaphragm condenser mic with an upgraded or custom wound transformer is going to sound better than a mic that cost around a thousand or more. Haven't tried it though, still a theory. Would love to test it some day.

Think all you want. Been there done that. Nothing like a vintage 87

Never said that it would be a U87, just that it would likely sound a lot better. One of the main reasons that cheap condensers are so damn cheap anyway is due to the poor under-spec (things that don't show on a spec sheet) components like transformers. The idea is that if you upgrade those things you'll have a much better mic. In theory anyway.

 

[lolzgreg]

Microphones aren't extremely complex devices, and don't have that many high dollar parts. The most expensive components are just about always going to be the transformer and capsule, like you hinted at. The hardest thing to do is source the proper or era-correct parts to build the clone.

 

[Audioholic]

New 87s are a little boxy sounding. Spend the extra grand and get a vintage 87 (not the Ai although the early Ai's are pretty good.)
Anything from the 60s to around 79/80. They have a much more detailed and smoother top end than a Bock/Soundelux or a Mojave M200 (too bright for my taste) and the 87 will only appreciate in value. Just make sure you get on with an original capsule in good shape. Well worth the money.

I Seriously don' think the MA-200 is that much brighter, if brighter at all compared to the U87. The U87 has its peak and certainly brings on the sibilance on certain sources. The original may be different, but again this thread is all about finding good mic values. It has been my experience that, after all mixed in, mastered, eq'd. It would be plenty hard to tell the difference between some of these mics, and "vintage" is just a term for more money often.

I just did a session with an original C12. I have often used the C12 re-issue, which many people say isn't as good as the original (of course, are re-issues ever ha). But the vintage C12 had electrical pops on occassion, and was more noisy then I remember the reissues being. Probably needs some tech loving, but still, I wasn't awed by the vintage.

I also have a really hard time believling a 180 dollar microphone would sound as good as the nueman U87. Then again, some of those Cheap MXL mics or whatever actually sound not to bad. go figure.

 

[Moshaholic]

And while your at it... throw in some names of some great, affordable high end mic preamps. In the $1000-1500 range if you would.

A Neve-ish 1073?

Vintech makes Neve knock offs.

I had some great pres in my studio but give me a UA-2-610 and I'll give you the world!

It was my secret weapon of choice for vocals and killer guitars...

G.

 

[johnnyjellybean]

New 87s are a little boxy sounding. Spend the extra grand and get a vintage 87 (not the Ai although the early Ai's are pretty good.)
Anything from the 60s to around 79/80. They have a much more detailed and smoother top end than a Bock/Soundelux or a Mojave M200 (too bright for my taste) and the 87 will only appreciate in value. Just make sure you get on with an original capsule in good shape. Well worth the money.

I Seriously don' think the MA-200 is that much brighter, if brighter at all compared to the U87. The U87 has its peak and certainly brings on the sibilance on certain sources. .

Which 87 are you talking about because the word sibilance doesn't enter into the conversation with my old 87 and yes the ma200 is noticeably brighter in a harsh kind of way compared to a good old 87. Do you own a good original pre-1980 U87? I own 2 and have gone through a half dozen old ones and a couple Ai's.

 

[Jimmie]

Funny this should come up. Just yesterday our very own Jordon sent me this link for U87 copies. They're dirt cheap and he said they're VERY close the real thing. I trust his word as he makes his living as a producer/engineer.
http://www.gauge-usa.com/

Now, let's be reasonable for a second:

$149 dollars to both purchase parts for, produce, and make profit off of a microphone? There's a line that has to be drawn here. Condenser microphones have a lot more going on inside of them than a simple dynamic such as a SM57 or Audix i5. I'm pretty sure you're going to get what you pay for in this case...

This quest started out recently trying to sing get decent track out of an SM58. as many many people before me have found, its not going to happen, at least not at my present skill set. thanks everyone for your input and suggestions.

That is not necessarily true. You can get stellar guitar tones from a single SM57 microphone; who says you can't get a great vocal sound from one? The pleasant and not so pleasant subtleties of a person's voice are highlighted or masked by a microphone due to it's particular response curve. A $3000 microphone may not work with your voice; it all depends.

the topic yeilded some amazing discussion complete with suggestions and recommendations to look into. thanks everyone,

To qualify my statement regarding my current line up of mics. I have two SM58 Betas and one SM58.

I've spent more time than I care to admit to, trying to get a nice flat response recorded. I think am fighting the frequency response of the capsule or possibly the fact that its a tube mic? the tone I get seems to fluctuate between Thin to Bright, then Harsh to far beyond driven, I find myself continually pushing up the mids to compensate, (just ask Jake)


I don't have the best monitors in the world, a pair of Mackie HR624s, but they're not bad either. Anyone else experience this problem?

 

[JakeAC5253]

Funny this should come up. Just yesterday our very own Jordon sent me this link for U87 copies. They're dirt cheap and he said they're VERY close the real thing. I trust his word as he makes his living as a producer/engineer.
http://www.gauge-usa.com/

Now, let's be reasonable for a second:

$149 dollars to both purchase parts for, produce, and make profit off of a microphone? There's a line that has to be drawn here. Condenser microphones have a lot more going on inside of them than a simple dynamic such as a SM57 or Audix i5. I'm pretty sure you're going to get what you pay for in this case...

This quest started out recently trying to sing get decent track out of an SM58. as many many people before me have found, its not going to happen, at least not at my present skill set. thanks everyone for your input and suggestions.

That is not necessarily true. You can get stellar guitar tones from a single SM57 microphone; who says you can't get a great vocal sound from one? The pleasant and not so pleasant subtleties of a person's voice are highlighted or masked by a microphone due to it's particular response curve. A $3000 microphone may not work with your voice; it all depends.

the topic yeilded some amazing discussion complete with suggestions and recommendations to look into. thanks everyone,

To qualify my statement regarding my current line up of mics. I have two SM58 Betas and one SM58.

I've spent more time than I care to admit to, trying to get a nice flat response recorded. I think am fighting the frequency response of the capsule or possibly the fact that its a tube mic? the tone I get seems to fluctuate between Thin to Bright, then Harsh to far beyond driven, I find myself continually pushing up the mids to compensate, (just ask Jake)


I don't have the best monitors in the world, a pair of Mackie HR624s, but they're not bad either. Anyone else experience this problem?

It could also be that what you are recording to is imparting a slight EQ to anything that is recorded through it. Don't discount the effect of the room as well, take advantage of the room nodes and place yourself accordingly, then place the mic. Your recordings weren't bad, it sounded like an SM58. The problem was that it was scratchy in the 3.5-5k region, which is pretty typical of SM58's. It did seem pretty exaggerated though, could be that the mic just isn't a good compliment to your voice. I don't think more mids is the solution to the problem, a little more body wouldn't hurt though. What exactly do you mean tube mic?

 

[Audioholic]

New 87s are a little boxy sounding. Spend the extra grand and get a vintage 87 (not the Ai although the early Ai's are pretty good.)
Anything from the 60s to around 79/80. They have a much more detailed and smoother top end than a Bock/Soundelux or a Mojave M200 (too bright for my taste) and the 87 will only appreciate in value. Just make sure you get on with an original capsule in good shape. Well worth the money.

I Seriously don' think the MA-200 is that much brighter, if brighter at all compared to the U87. The U87 has its peak and certainly brings on the sibilance on certain sources. .

Which 87 are you talking about because the word sibilance doesn't enter into the conversation with my old 87 and yes the ma200 is noticeably brighter in a harsh kind of way compared to a good old 87. Do you own a good original pre-1980 U87? I own 2 and have gone through a half dozen old ones and a couple Ai's.

I have used both the original and the newer ones. I don't have both to side by side compare today, but I can compare the MA-200 to the New nueman side by side. The U87 isn't a dark mic, more nuetral to a point but it has its frequency bump in the top of the range. Maybe Not bright like other mics who peaks in a few places, but it defineteally has its peaks in the upper range. Yes I have had sibilance with singers and VO using both designs (the older one from memory). The MA-200 also is a little on the brighter side, but not nearly like some other condensers, and has a smoother top end to me, I have had great success with it on vocals and acoustic guitar. I like the midrange on the U87 a bit more, but I could live with either. I love the U87, just not the price tag. I am not saying the MA-200 sounds like the U87 either, they are different mics, but the OP wanted suggestions of good mics cheaper, and walla. I think the MA-201 is a little less bright, and probably more U87 ish

I have a feeling those 100-200 dollar U87 knockoffs would suffer from that same harsh high frequency that so many other condensers in that price range do. Rode's mics for example. I think the best bang for the buck is from AT. 4050 is very nice.
To each his own really. Do a search and you will find just as many people preffering mics like the MA-200 over the U87, and visa versa.

 

[Nico]

So whats the best stock mic for 300ish dollars?

 

[Jimmie]

Funny this should come up. Just yesterday our very own Jordon sent me this link for U87 copies. They're dirt cheap and he said they're VERY close the real thing. I trust his word as he makes his living as a producer/engineer.
http://www.gauge-usa.com/

Now, let's be reasonable for a second:

$149 dollars to both purchase parts for, produce, and make profit off of a microphone? There's a line that has to be drawn here. Condenser microphones have a lot more going on inside of them than a simple dynamic such as a SM57 or Audix i5. I'm pretty sure you're going to get what you pay for in this case...

This quest started out recently trying to sing get decent track out of an SM58. as many many people before me have found, its not going to happen, at least not at my present skill set. thanks everyone for your input and suggestions.

That is not necessarily true. You can get stellar guitar tones from a single SM57 microphone; who says you can't get a great vocal sound from one? The pleasant and not so pleasant subtleties of a person's voice are highlighted or masked by a microphone due to it's particular response curve. A $3000 microphone may not work with your voice; it all depends.

the topic yeilded some amazing discussion complete with suggestions and recommendations to look into. thanks everyone,

To qualify my statement regarding my current line up of mics. I have two SM58 Betas and one SM58.

I've spent more time than I care to admit to, trying to get a nice flat response recorded. I think am fighting the frequency response of the capsule or possibly the fact that its a tube mic? the tone I get seems to fluctuate between Thin to Bright, then Harsh to far beyond driven, I find myself continually pushing up the mids to compensate, (just ask Jake)


I don't have the best monitors in the world, a pair of Mackie HR624s, but they're not bad either. Anyone else experience this problem?

It could also be that what you are recording to is imparting a slight EQ to anything that is recorded through it. Don't discount the effect of the room as well, take advantage of the room nodes and place yourself accordingly, then place the mic. Your recordings weren't bad, it sounded like an SM58. The problem was that it was scratchy in the 3.5-5k region, which is pretty typical of SM58's. It did seem pretty exaggerated though, could be that the mic just isn't a good compliment to your voice. I don't think more mids is the solution to the problem, a little more body wouldn't hurt though. What exactly do you mean tube mic?

sorry, am talking nonsensical, its been a day, I wanted to say non-tube style mic (e.g. 47u's, etc) I'm going to shut up now and decompress...
thanks...

 

[Audioholic]

Funny this should come up. Just yesterday our very own Jordon sent me this link for U87 copies. They're dirt cheap and he said they're VERY close the real thing. I trust his word as he makes his living as a producer/engineer.
http://www.gauge-usa.com/

Now, let's be reasonable for a second:

$149 dollars to both purchase parts for, produce, and make profit off of a microphone? There's a line that has to be drawn here. Condenser microphones have a lot more going on inside of them than a simple dynamic such as a SM57 or Audix i5. I'm pretty sure you're going to get what you pay for in this case...

This quest started out recently trying to sing get decent track out of an SM58. as many many people before me have found, its not going to happen, at least not at my present skill set. thanks everyone for your input and suggestions.

That is not necessarily true. You can get stellar guitar tones from a single SM57 microphone; who says you can't get a great vocal sound from one? The pleasant and not so pleasant subtleties of a person's voice are highlighted or masked by a microphone due to it's particular response curve. A $3000 microphone may not work with your voice; it all depends.

the topic yeilded some amazing discussion complete with suggestions and recommendations to look into. thanks everyone,

To qualify my statement regarding my current line up of mics. I have two SM58 Betas and one SM58.

I've spent more time than I care to admit to, trying to get a nice flat response recorded. I think am fighting the frequency response of the capsule or possibly the fact that its a tube mic? the tone I get seems to fluctuate between Thin to Bright, then Harsh to far beyond driven, I find myself continually pushing up the mids to compensate, (just ask Jake)


I don't have the best monitors in the world, a pair of Mackie HR624s, but they're not bad either. Anyone else experience this problem?

I don't think those mics are ideal for vocal recording. They may work fine on some voices, but geneally I like LD mics for vocal tracking. Nuetral? Perhaps the Shure KSM 32 might work well for your voice, it has a nice midrange and not really hyped up top end, pretty smooth actually , and will sound fuller and more 3d then the 58 and such

 

[kasperjensen]

Man... Guitar related GAS is bad, but studio equipment GAS is worse than crack.
50k on a Dumble amp? How about 50k for a couple of compressors ?

I am in the process of planning out a small studio operation at home. Little live room and control... I got what I basically need... But now comes the things I really want.

I think my first purchase will have to be an interface...

I think a studio thread is in order...

 

[Jimmie]

Man... Guitar related GAS is bad, but studio equipment GAS is worse than crack.
50k on a Dumble amp? How about 50k for a couple of compressors ?

I am in the process of planning out a small studio operation at home. Little live room and control... I got what I basically need... But now comes the things I really want.

I think my first purchase will have to be an interface...

I think a studio thread is in order...

+1000