New *affordable* high gainer on the horizon!

  • Thread starter Thread starter CECamps
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Elric":2wjb2hc1 said:
So what type of cardboard are you using for the headshell? :lol: :LOL:

Only the best double walled stuff! :lol: :LOL:


MOAAH":2wjb2hc1 said:
Sorry, but Midi switching can't really be all about cost, I mean like how much can a couple of ICs be worth in the realm of mass production?

Firstly, the amp will not be mass produced. Secondly, there is a little bit more to incorporating MIDI than buying a couple of ICs. ;)

MOAAH":2wjb2hc1 said:
PS: nice choice of Japanese Caps and I believe tube sockets, but those Alpha pots are not first class, nothing made in China is. I know AB(American) pots are a bit costly, so are PEC(Canadian), but really, anything would look better in a made in the USA amp than pots from China! Don't ya think :dunno:

This is the first prototype build, and many of the parts in this build are parts I had on hand that I needed to consume because I'm not using them in regular production. For instance, many of the resistor values that I used the blue metal films for, I actually have much nicer Vishay's available for.

Belton sockets will be used for production. There will also be Nichicon electrolytics. Not sure if you were being sarcastic about the sockets and caps, but they are both component brands I'd expect to find in high end amps. For the money, Nichicon has some of the best electrolytic cap specs around--particularly rated hours.

Regarding Alpha pots, if you know of a valid reason why they should be avoided I'm all ears. Particularly in a low margin product such as this amp. I'm at a loss for the justification behind sourcing discontinued Allen Bradley's (and paying a premium price for them) or paying out the ass for PEC's, eating up more of what little margin there already is, when there are no issues whatsoever with Alpha's for all intents and purposes in a guitar amp--but I'm open to new ideas on the subject. :)
 
Congrats on the amp build CEC. A lot of amp builders use Alpha pots and there is no evidence that they suck.
 
Pretty cool! the only downpoint is the shared EQ but who ajusts the eq on a clean channel anyway :lol: :LOL:
 
CECamps":3fdv08df said:
MOAAH":3fdv08df said:
Sorry, but Midi switching can't really be all about cost, I mean like how much can a couple of ICs be worth in the realm of mass production?
Firstly, the amp will not be mass produced. Secondly, there is a little bit more to incorporating MIDI than buying a couple of ICs. ;)
Well as soon as you start making PCBs the ease to add features such as Midi Switching becomes cheap and possible, and the door to mass production opens wide. After the design work, there would be very little extra cost involved. ICs by the thousand lot cost pennies. It's more about ability than cost, but you know that.



CECamps":3fdv08df said:
MOAAH":3fdv08df said:
PS: nice choice of Japanese Caps and I believe tube sockets, but those Alpha pots are not first class, nothing made in China is. I know AB(American) pots are a bit costly, so are PEC(Canadian), but really, anything would look better in a made in the USA amp than pots from China! Don't ya think :dunno:

This is the first prototype build, and many of the parts in this build are parts I had on hand that I needed to consume because I'm not using them in regular production. For instance, many of the resistor values that I used the blue metal films for, I actually have much nicer Vishay's available for.

Belton sockets will be used for production. There will also be Nichicon electrolytics. Not sure if you were being sarcastic about the sockets and caps, but they are both component brands I'd expect to find in high end amps. For the money, Nichicon has some of the best electrolytic cap specs around--particularly rated hours.

Regarding Alpha pots, if you know of a valid reason why they should be avoided I'm all ears. Particularly in a low margin product such as this amp. I'm at a loss for the justification behind sourcing discontinued Allen Bradley's (and paying a premium price for them) or paying out the ass for PEC's, eating up more of what little margin there already is, when there are no issues whatsoever with Alpha's for all intents and purposes in a guitar amp--but I'm open to new ideas on the subject. :)

Hey, the Japanese make great caps, especially for the cost. Their sockets are bar none, meaning, it's nice to see you don't have cheap Chinese sockets. It's amazing how many big dollar amps use shit sockets. Your goal may not be big dollar, but good sockets are critical. I won't get into how great Japanese switches are, because most folks seem happy with the Mexican ones, which are infinately better than anything from China.

As for the Chinese pots, I think it's an insult to say anything is American made but is in fact stocked with Chinese parts. BTW in mass, PECs are not that costly, you just need to preorder enough of them. They will never be as dirt cheap as Alpha, but in most cases you get what you pay for. YMMV, and that's OK too :)

To be sure I was wanting to see how you reacted to someone not singing praises. It's good practice for you in case ya evar get too big, too fast, and all the the wannabes hate ya for it. FWIW, you did well IMO, good luck to you in the future.
 
Who uses clean channels??? it's all about the foot on the gas!
 
MOAAH":3u26e0ou said:
Well as soon as you start making PCBs the ease to add features such as Midi Switching becomes cheap and possible, and the door to mass production opens wide. After the design work, there would be very little extra cost involved. ICs by the thousand lot cost pennies. It's more about ability than cost, but you know that.

So it's that I'm unable to design a MIDI switching feature? That's interesting, because I offer an optional MIDI interface for one of the amps on the CEC side of the house. Must have been divine intervention that I was able to design that! ;)

If you want to split hairs over this, I'll elaborate on some things. For one, the channel switching circuit on this amp is stupidly simple. Externally, the channel switching is controlled by a single mono 1/4" jack connected to a footswitch that is nothing more than a latching SPST switch. Open circuit, close circuit. Many MIDI controllers have 1/4" jacks built-in which can plug directly into any amp with this sort of scheme and handle switching functions. It's not as easy in an amp like the CEC Brigand (in my avatar pic) which can have channel and mode switching performed simultaneously via a 5-pin DIN connector. It makes much more sense to offer a MIDI option on an amp like that where there aren't any readily available "COTS" solutions.

In the business of manufacturing--especially consumer electronic manufacturing--costing goes well beyond R&D, logistics, and production, but you know that. This is a low margin product, which will retail for $999. From a BOM standpoint by itself, whether or not you want to believe it, the cost of incorporating a MIDI feature goes beyond the cost of IC's. And it's not a cost my business partner and I were interested in incurring for this product. So it could end there from a decision making standpoint. Beyond the BOM, there are projected costs in several areas like assembly (not everyone is well-versed in SMD soldering for instance, and if they are they get paid more), the service and support side (I'm sure customers will want the satisfaction of knowing they will receive service and support should they need it), etc.

Perhaps the standard hobbiest-for-profit doesn't concern himself with such details. I get that. But when you are interested in sustaining a business in an industry as tough to survive in as guitar amps--you have to. Even more so when you decide to create a lower price point product where margins are much lower than normal.

There are other features that were not included for much the same reasons. Independent EQ's, more gain control features, etc. Many considered, many decided against. You have to sacrifice somewhere unfortunately.



MOAAH":3u26e0ou said:
Hey, the Japanese make great caps, especially for the cost. Their sockets are bar none, meaning, it's nice to see you don't have cheap Chinese sockets. It's amazing how many big dollar amps use shit sockets. Your goal may not be big dollar, but good sockets are critical. I won't get into how great Japanese switches are, because most folks seem happy with the Mexican ones, which are infinately better than anything from China.

Belton sockets are actually Korean. I agree though that cheap, flimsy sockets shouldn't be used, and I refuse to use them in any amp. Beltons are the best reasonably priced tube socket I have ever used and I'll use them exclusively until I find something better at the same price point.

MOAAH":3u26e0ou said:
As for the Chinese pots, I think it's an insult to say anything is American made but is in fact stocked with Chinese parts. BTW in mass, PECs are not that costly, you just need to preorder enough of them. They will never be as dirt cheap as Alpha, but in most cases you get what you pay for. YMMV, and that's OK too :)

No doubt that PECs are nice pots. But again, until I can wrap my head around the true value added over Alphas I'm not going to incur the costs. For you it may be offensive to find a part in an amp that happens to be manufactured in China. But not everyone feels the same way. There are a lot of shit parts made in China, but Alpha pots ain't one of them. I've used all kinds of pots over the 7 years I've been actively building amps, and I can't find any valid reason not to use Alphas. There are many parts worth spending considerably more money on (trust me, I use Auricaps and O'Netics trafos in many of my amps), but not all of them.

MOAAH":3u26e0ou said:
To be sure I was wanting to see how you reacted to someone not singing praises. It's good practice for you in case ya evar get too big, too fast, and all the the wannabes hate ya for it. FWIW, you did well IMO, good luck to you in the future.

I appreciate it! As strange as it may sound, I don't want to grow quickly. It's very tough to do, and it's very tough to survive. I've been in the amp business going on 3 years, growing at a slow to moderate pace the whole time. Wouldn't have had it any other way. Just picked up my first "real deal" artist endorser in September of this year. probably wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the foundation I'd spent so much time, energy, and money building.
 
CECamps":2q8hwux3 said:
I appreciate it!
Well U R most welcome, and great posting above. No one knows better than me how things can get outta hand on line in a hurry. A great attitude(which you've displayed) will go along way on line.
In truth Alpha pots are industry standard, I just wish we had a western alternitive that was cost effective. I could be wrong(maybe getting them mixed up with the switches I used to use) but I think Belton sockets were originally Japanese, but later jobbed out to Korea. Either way they are super good, IMO the best we can find in the modern world.
Anywho, good luck with your new amp line, I truly wish you the best.
 
^ Right on!

MOAAH":3txizukw said:
Well U R most welcome, and great posting above. No one knows better than me how things can get outta hand on line in a hurry. A great attitude(which you've displayed) will go along way on line.
In truth Alpha pots are industry standard, I just wish we had a western alternitive that was cost effective. I could be wrong(maybe getting them mixed up with the switches I used to use) but I think Belton sockets were originally Japanese, but later jobbed out to Korea. Either way they are super good, IMO the best we can find in the modern world.
Anywho, good luck with your new amp line, I truly wish you the best.

Me too, dude. I'd love for the US to stoke up a more robust component manufacturing industry. If there is one thing to be happy about in that regard, it's that the best amp transformers in the world are made here. And since the iron is by far the most important part of any tube amp, I'm incredibly glad for that!


By the way, I'm fine tuning this circuit right now. This thing is an absolute BEAST!
 
CECamps":2mnm4kt8 said:
I'd love for the US to stoke up a more robust component manufacturing industry. If there is one thing to be happy about in that regard, it's that the best amp transformers in the world are made here. And since the iron is by far the most important part of any tube amp, I'm incredibly glad for that!


By the way, I'm fine tuning this circuit right now. This thing is an absolute BEAST!
Well to a large degree I agree about iron being most important(along with a good design and layout), and I forgot to compliment you on your mention of ONetics. I used them as a high end option, but I worked with Hammond(directly responsible for their new line of plug in trafo replacements: Marshall, Fender and Vox, improved mounting brackets, and the new line of OP trafos with standard secondary taps) so I got them so cheap it was almost crazy to use anything else. Interesting note on Hammond; just recently they started producing stuff in China, BUT, they kept all the production of audio trafos and such inside America and Canada.
In truth the Germans make some great iron too, not sure which is better as I could never justify the shipping costs or ordering one offs when I had so many good connections locally.

Looking forward to hearing some clips!
Until then, take good care of you and yours.
Rob
 
I think I would like this amp more than all the others. I thought I was in love with the Toll Free Express but you keep raising the bar.


:rawk:
 
Finalized the clean channel circuit tweaking this weekend. Here's a quick recording of some cleans. Playing an Ibanez S5470 Prestige plugged straight in. Amp is hooked up to a CEC Pillager 412 cab, mic'd with an SM57.

First you hear the middle position single coil, then the bridge position humbucker. Hope you enjoy!

https://soundcloud.com/asg-amps/hybris-c ... anez-s5470
 
Here's a recording of the lead channel. Playing a Les Paul with a BKP Nailbomb in the bridge. Tuned to D flat. Guitar is plugged straight in, and the amp is running into a CEC Pillager 412. One of the Emi Man O Wars is mic'd with an SM57.

I'd like to get another recording done with the amp running into a 212 that is loaded with Wizards. It gives the midrange a slightly different character.

https://soundcloud.com/asg-amps/hybris-h ... les-paul-w
 
Kick ass!!! The lead channel tone somewhat reminds me of some old school helmet only with more balls and more gain.
 
^Thanks! That was recorded on an Eminence Man O War which has a very G12-T75 vibe. I'm going to get some more clips recorded with different speakers which will show some differing tonal character.

Here is another clean clip. Les Paul set to the middle pickup position. Amp is running through a Celestion Creamback!

https://soundcloud.com/asg-amps/hybris-c ... ul-through
 
Got the machined aluminum front and rear cab panels back from the machine shop today. Test fitting them in the headshell. Perfect fit!

Here's a shot of the logo and some of the countersunk hardware.

406912_206738349462300_1601732901_n.jpg
 
When you say "a tube buffered effects loop " , is it line level (+4db) or -10db guitar level ?
 
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