New Air Norton is way too bassy

[Shreddy Mercury]

I installed this Norton/Air Norton combo in one of my Warriors. 1 volume, 1 tone, 5 way super switch. I copied the original layout exactly and the switch operates like it's supposed to. Position 1 is bridge, position 5 is neck, so on and so forth. Anywho, the Norton sounds fantastic, but the Air Norton is ridiculously bassy, and downright muddy. I've lowered the pickup some, it barely helps. I've adjusted the pole pieces up and it doesn't really do anything. It cleans up ok when rolling off the volume, but under gain it's just gross and unusable. When playing over a backing track with a solo it does pretty well, but I'd never be able to use the neck for any kind of rhythm playing down near the nut.

When it had the previous dual X2Ns in it, it did the same thing. I always had to turn the bass down and add treble on the amp to get it more usable. Does anyone have any idea what I could check? Maybe the wrong value cap was installed when it was built? Who knows...I just want it to sound good.

My other guitars with various DiMarzios or Duncans in the neck sound great and sing. They have a wee bit of bassiness because of them being in the neck position, but this Air Norton is nearly unusable for lower riffing under distortion.

 

[DanTravis62]

The Dimarzio sounds like shit? Crazy, man.

In all seriousness I have a guitar that had this EXACT same problem - every humbucker, no matter what brand, output, magnet that I put in the neck had an OBSCENE amount of bass that could not be dialed out no matter what I tried. It wasn't the wiring. It wasn't the cap values. It was just inherent to the guitar.

That guitar went through over 20 different humbuckers in the neck. I put a duncan phat cat in the neck which kind of sort of worked, but not really.

In the end @scottosan sold me some weird custom A2 (??) humbucker he had around, and it was literally the only pickup that ever worked in that guitar, so it's still in there. I have no idea what's going on with that pickup, you'd have to ask him, but it certainly worked. It's still in the guitar.

It's fucking crazy because I know exactly what you're going through I think. At least in my case it wasn't the electrolytics or anything like that, it was just that specific guitar for whatever resonances, neck joint, rout position, had an obscene amount of low end in the neck.

Good luck and godspeed. Like I said, it took me 20 or more different humbuckers to find one that worked.

 

[WizardAmpIphoneClip]

You've experienced the Dimarzibloat

 

[the rossness]

Have you tried lowering it?

 

[shredi knight]

Have you tried lowering it?

Have you tried reading the first paragraph of his post?

 

[Techdeth]

It needs written in my writing to be better understood

Have you tried reading the first paragraph of his post?

 

[Speeddemon]

I installed this Norton/Air Norton combo in one of my Warriors. 1 volume, 1 tone, 5 way super switch. I copied the original layout exactly and the switch operates like it's supposed to. Position 1 is bridge, position 5 is neck, so on and so forth. Anywho, the Norton sounds fantastic, but the Air Norton is ridiculously bassy, and downright muddy. I've lowered the pickup some, it barely helps. I've adjusted the pole pieces up and it doesn't really do anything. It cleans up ok when rolling off the volume, but under gain it's just gross and unusable. When playing over a backing track with a solo it does pretty well, but I'd never be able to use the neck for any kind of rhythm playing down near the nut.

When it had the previous dual X2Ns in it, it did the same thing. I always had to turn the bass down and add treble on the amp to get it more usable. Does anyone have any idea what I could check? Maybe the wrong value cap was installed when it was built? Who knows...I just want it to sound good.

My other guitars with various DiMarzios or Duncans in the neck sound great and sing. They have a wee bit of bassiness because of them being in the neck position, but this Air Norton is nearly unusable for lower riffing under distortion.

I've dealt with the same thing and one solution is to turn the Air Norton 180 degrees; so with the screw pole pieces facing the bridge instead of the neck.
That definitely will make it sound brighter/tighter. Why you ask? The coils of the Air Norton are not symmetric. And this also helps in why it sounds so awesome when split, unlike a Super Distortion, which becomes thin and brittle.

I've done this on 2 of the 3 guitars that I have with an Air Norton in the neck; see example of this on my Burny RLG.
Because I feared already that if I installed it the 'regular' way on a Les Paul, it would become too bloated/boomy.

 

[Shreddy Mercury]

I've dealt with the same thing and one solution is to turn the Air Norton 180 degrees; so with the screw pole pieces facing the bridge instead of the neck.
That definitely will make it sound brighter/tighter. Why you ask? The coils of the Air Norton are not symmetric. And this also helps in why it sounds so awesome when split, unlike a Super Distortion, which becomes thin and brittle.

I've done this on 2 of the 3 guitars that I have with an Air Norton in the neck; see example of this on my Burny RLG.
Because I feared already that if I installed it the 'regular' way on a Les Paul, it would become too bloated/boomy.

Are you sure about this?

 

[Speeddemon]

Are you sure about this?

Did you miss the part that I have the Air Norton installed in 3 guitars?
...aaand it's part of DiMarzio's whole Dual Resonance thingy.

Oh, and just for you, I measured it;
Super Distortion full humbucking: 13.6k Ohm. Split = 6.8k Ohm...-->Half.
Air Norton: full humbucking: 11.3 k Ohm. Split: 6.5k Ohm. More than half; asymmetric. Apparently the screw pole is the brightest of the two and since you can raise those, it's easier to leave the whole humbucker at a certain lower height and increase the height of the individual screws.
36th PAF Anniv neck: full humbucking: 7.3k Ohm. Split: 3.65k Ohm. -->Half.

I also have it installed this way on my Ibanez S540FM, because I wanted articulation and no mud. Only on my Charvel So-Cal, the screw poles are facing the neck, since I figured alder body, maple neck+Floyd Rose=bright enough as it is, so any extra low-end from the neck pickup is welcome.

 

[tallcoolone]

Love the Norton as a bridge pickup, not a fan at all of the Air Norton—agree it’s bloated and muddy.

 

[napalmdeath]

The Tone Zone is even worse, in my opinion. Not sure if it's just not a fit with the Ibanez Prestige, or if it's overly bloated anyway, but I hated that pickup. I had better results with the OG Evolution.

 

[Speeddemon]

I had better results with the OG Evolution.

The Evolution Neck will mos def handle high gain in a more articulate and brighter way than the Air Norton. But it's a 'dryer' sound compared to the juiciness of the Air Norton.
@Shreddy Mercury something to consider maybe. It has just a pinch more output than the Air Norton (290mV vs. 270) and less low-mids, so congested sounding is not something I think of with the Evo neck.
I had it in my Charvel; really nice, but quite bright. The ToneZone in it was like @napalmdeath said, tubby/bloated. So in went a Norton, for years, and I swapped it with a Super Distortion from another guitar, where that Norton resides now, together with a Breed neck (awesome pickup!)
Oh, and big importance, which I hope you already did: use 500k pots for this. Air Norton with 250k? Mud city.

 

[Rackman]

Nearly every Dimarzio advertises rolled off highs. In my experience they are not lying although I can't claim to have played every one by any means.

But if Dimarzio says they're deficient in the highs, I believe them and proceed not to purchase.

 

[scottosan]

The Dimarzio sounds like shit? Crazy, man.



View attachment 446647


In all seriousness I have a guitar that had this EXACT same problem - every humbucker, no matter what brand, output, magnet that I put in the neck had an OBSCENE amount of bass that could not be dialed out no matter what I tried. It wasn't the wiring. It wasn't the cap values. It was just inherent to the guitar.

That guitar went through over 20 different humbuckers in the neck. I put a duncan phat cat in the neck which kind of sort of worked, but not really.

In the end @scottosan sold me some weird custom A2 (??) humbucker he had around, and it was literally the only pickup that ever worked in that guitar, so it's still in there. I have no idea what's going on with that pickup, you'd have to ask him, but it certainly worked. It's still in the guitar.

It's fucking crazy because I know exactly what you're going through I think. At least in my case it wasn't the electrolytics or anything like that, it was just that specific guitar for whatever resonances, neck joint, rout position, had an obscene amount of low end in the neck.

Good luck and godspeed. Like I said, it took me 20 or more different humbuckers to find one that worked.

I wound it weak and with a tight wind pattern to try and make sound bright and weaker like a single coil

 

[gclef]

Check out the paf joe. Its smooth and clear. It can be fluid, but doesn't get that sloppy, air norton looseness with heavy gain. It has a great feel to it as well.

 

[Shreddy Mercury]

I wound it weak and with a tight wind pattern to try and make sound bright and weaker like a single coil

If mine sounded even remotely like that I'd be happy.

 

[DanTravis62]

I wound it weak and with a tight wind pattern to try and make sound bright and weaker like a single coil

It worked

It was literally the only pickup that worked in that guitar, it was crazy

 

[vultures]

The Dimarzio sounds like shit? Crazy, man.



View attachment 446647


In all seriousness I have a guitar that had this EXACT same problem - every humbucker, no matter what brand, output, magnet that I put in the neck had an OBSCENE amount of bass that could not be dialed out no matter what I tried. It wasn't the wiring. It wasn't the cap values. It was just inherent to the guitar.

That guitar went through over 20 different humbuckers in the neck. I put a duncan phat cat in the neck which kind of sort of worked, but not really.

In the end @scottosan sold me some weird custom A2 (??) humbucker he had around, and it was literally the only pickup that ever worked in that guitar, so it's still in there. I have no idea what's going on with that pickup, you'd have to ask him, but it certainly worked. It's still in the guitar.

It's fucking crazy because I know exactly what you're going through I think. At least in my case it wasn't the electrolytics or anything like that, it was just that specific guitar for whatever resonances, neck joint, rout position, had an obscene amount of low end in the neck.

Good luck and godspeed. Like I said, it took me 20 or more different humbuckers to find one that worked.

I had a similar experience with my PRS. It's an abnormally warm/bassy guitar. Stripped the neck, got it refinished in nitro, went through dozens of pickups. I loathe warm and bass heavy neck tones. The standout brighter pickups I've found were; Seymour Duncan Alpha & Bare Knuckle Cold Sweat. I currently have an EMG 81 & 89R set to split on default, which makes it pretty bright.

 

[DanTravis62]

I had a similar experience with my PRS. It's an abnormally warm/bassy guitar. Stripped the neck, got it refinished in nitro, went through dozens of pickups. I loathe warm and bass heavy neck tones. The standout brighter pickups I've found were; Seymour Duncan Alpha & Bare Knuckle Cold Sweat. I currently have an EMG 81 & 89R set to split on default, which makes it pretty bright.

Every once in a while, for whatever the combination of specs is, this just randomly seems to happen

I've noticed it's a little more common in set neck or neck through, but happens in bolt on guitars once in a while too

It's absolutely infuriating, it feels like there's just nothing you can do

I'm really lucky scott wound me that pickup, because otherwise I would have had to use one of those humbucker plates that converts a single coil or something, it seems like your idea is a decent workaround too - just keep it permanently split

The weird part is that at least on my guitar, the bridge responds to changes in pickups normally and there's nothing weird about it

It's just the neck pickup

 

[valve]

if it wasn'T mentioned already: try a series cap for the neck PU. maybe start with 10n.