new cameron amps

[rlord1974]

Essa eu acho difícil.

Eu acho que não. Você entende muito bem.

 

[Rogue]

i have to ask you guys that think his attitude is "fuck it, im that good, everyone else will still pay it".

whois ANYONE here to say he can't work on amps. if you DONT WANT IT, DONT BUY IT. plain and simple.

or, is it in all ya'lls humble guitar player type "i can do it better than you" opinion (not you Kapo) that he HAS to excommunicate himself from the guitar gear community, find a new career at mcD's apparently and pay back or make good on those amps before he does any more work that is guitar gear/amp related.

i just dont get this line of thinking. why not let the guys that are allegedly owed 14 amps to fight their own battles? as Brad said, if you are owned an amp or service from mark, go collect.

again, who are ANY of us to say what the man can do for a living....the "how dare you, yet my shit doesn't stink" mentality here is just unbearable. im sure more than half the shitbags on this website have skeletons in their closets too, me included. also, what business is it if someone buys an amp from him then flips it...why do you care?

brad and company are big boys....this thread is OOZING snot nosed 11 year old pre pubescence, amongst other stuff.

As conservative as RT is, I'm amazed at how many people have no problem with rewarding the thief, and then taking shots at anyone pointing it out.

Mark hasn't paid anyone back yet, yeti. He's been modding amps. He has for years. If he really, really wanted to pay people back, he'd take an extra job to do so if he couldn't afford to with amp mods. You know, the exact advice you would give to someone to get off welfare or get out of debt.

But I guess because had does the cool tonez modz that the same principles no longer applies? Joe Schmoe should get a second job at McDonalds to pay his 40k of debt, but Mark Cameron shouldn't have to in order to pay the people back the 40k ripped off?

Really?

 

[Rogue]

Just thinking out loud; no dog in the fight.

If Cameron's ever to pay folks back, he needs income to do it. Cutting him out of all royalties/payments for the amps completely disincentivizes him to do any more work. That's a bad idea.

Someone else needs to handle the money, diverting a portion to Cameron to keep him working and maybe another portion to a "trust" naming as beneficiaries all the folks that got screwed over. At some point, the trust will pay out to the beneficiaries and this will be done.

Only real trouble is that given the amount of money that's being thrown around (he owes over $40k?!?!?!?), I don't think this will ever work. I don't see how they could sell that many amps. A small niche market to begin with, and now with his name ruined, it'd be hard to make that happen.

Good luck to anyone involved.

Yes, Mark Cameron can only pay back those people he ripped off by working on amps. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom, I assume because some people have a hard on for his amps, even as niche as it is. Isn't it interesting that working a second job to pay off school loans is acceptable, even advisable advice, but Mark Cameron doing a second job to pay back the people that got ripped off isn't? This is the land of WTF is wrong with this place?

You have hit the nail on the head though. These people will not get their stuff back. If Mark Cameron truly wanted to right this, the process would have started long before now. Sure, there's enough coddlers convincing him he can do this with his magic amps skills, so he doesn't have to try real hard to rectify his past wrongs....that his magic amp skills will magically take care of it, but Mark should have been on this long ago.

I'm afraid Mark Cameron's problems and of his own doing and that his character is his character. These handlers are trying, and good for them, but the problem is Mark Cameron. He hasn't fixed it yet and doesn't appear to have made much if any effort to fix it. And coddlers all around convincing him that his great talents will save him as opposed to buckling down and doing what's right.

If we're having to discuss "incentive to work" about a guy that ripped off people, we're talking about failure.

As you said, good luck to all involved. I hope Jason doesn't get wrapped up in the undertow of Mark Cameron.

 

[guitarmike]

Just thinking out loud; no dog in the fight.

If Cameron's ever to pay folks back, he needs income to do it. Cutting him out of all royalties/payments for the amps completely disincentivizes him to do any more work. That's a bad idea.

Someone else needs to handle the money, diverting a portion to Cameron to keep him working and maybe another portion to a "trust" naming as beneficiaries all the folks that got screwed over. At some point, the trust will pay out to the beneficiaries and this will be done.

Only real trouble is that given the amount of money that's being thrown around (he owes over $40k?!?!?!?), I don't think this will ever work. I don't see how they could sell that many amps. A small niche market to begin with, and now with his name ruined, it'd be hard to make that happen.

Good luck to anyone involved.

Yes, Mark Cameron can only pay back those people he ripped off by working on amps. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom, I assume because some people have a hard on for his amps, even as niche as it is. Isn't it interesting that working a second job to pay off school loans is acceptable, even advisable advice, but Mark Cameron doing a second job to pay back the people that got ripped off isn't? This is the land of WTF is wrong with this place?

You have hit the nail on the head though. These people will not get their stuff back. If Mark Cameron truly wanted to right this, the process would have started long before now. Sure, there's enough coddlers convincing him he can do this with his magic amps skills, so he doesn't have to try real hard to rectify his past wrongs....that his magic amp skills will magically take care of it, but Mark should have been on this long ago.

I'm afraid Mark Cameron's problems and of his own doing and that his character is his character. These handlers are trying, and good for them, but the problem is Mark Cameron. He hasn't fixed it yet and doesn't appear to have made much if any effort to fix it. And coddlers all around convincing him that his great talents will save him as opposed to buckling down and doing what's right.

If we're having to discuss "incentive to work" about a guy that ripped off people, we're talking about failure.

As you said, good luck to all involved. I hope Jason doesn't get wrapped up in the undertow of Mark Cameron.

Thinking out loud too I really wonder if this model is even doable regardless of Mark's attitude. On the used market CCV's (of which there are less than 30-35 total) sell for $2300 - $2600 shipped. Amps he modded are going for $1600 - $1900. Let's say he owe's $40,000 to people that gave him money for amps and he can sell new amps at $3000 with a gross total profit of $1500 and $500 profit on each amp he mods. If Mark plowed the full $1500 from each amp into repaying the original 14 customers, he needs to sell 27 amps to pay them off. If he used the amp mod profit of $500, he would need to mod 80 amps. It will take more amps if he keeps a percentage of the profits. If you look at the current market and my numbers were accurate (and I am probably optimistic on the profit side), reality is it is unlikely all of those people will be paid back, at least any time in the near future (history has shown that Mark is not reliable long term).

Now factor in the Cameron reputation; how many people would really buy new amps from him at $3000? Even assuming some way of es-crowing the payment until the amp arrives, are there 30+ people that have $3000 they want to spend on a Cameron amp? If Mark really is going to make repayment his top priority he will have to follow a plan something like this or somehow stay in business for the next 4-5 years.

I hope he does repay everyone and I hope it works out but considering others have tried and just lost money themselves, I would not bet on it.

 

[xzyryabx]

Mak could go into business with Bernie Rico jr, I am sure a joint venture could be very successful.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

As a regular reader, I'd like to throw some positive vibes the way of Brad and his associates for their efforts in trying to clean the slate for Cameron.
There was a business motivation, after all it couldn't all be charitable work, but a good dose of philanthropy motivated (speculation) by a love of guitar gear and a reach out to a bed fellow in the industry and those affected by his troubles. It was a reaction, let's not forget, to the angst of the membership here.
It went wrong in ways we have some details of, although the whole story will no doubt be juicier.

We will never know exactly how it all played out, but in the face of an unwilling participant it was doomed to failure. With Cameron willing to take part, it may have worked and he could be well on the way to clearing his debts and repairing his bad name. That ship has sailed. More succinctly, that ship is rusting in the rain, half built in the shipyard, never to be commissioned. Up until recently Brad et al have shown remarkable restraint in the face of much character assassination, and then the straw came that broke that proverbial camel's back. Fair enough; I wouldn't have held court for so long. As Brad and his team have left none of their customers out of pocket, they deserve some credit while they lick their wounds. They do not deserve to be strapped to Cameron as he base jumps without a parachute.


I was interested in the new amps and biding my time. Not any more - the Cameron name is mud with his involvement. It is over for Cameron. Surely.

 

[rlord1974]

We will never know exactly how it all played out

It's amazing how many act like they do.

 

[Beyond Black]

I cant believe that the possibility of this guy paying back one red cent, much less $42,000 is even being discussed.

 

[rrguitar]

Don't want to offend anyone.. buy after reading through all 7 pages of this thread...

Who gives a fuck about Cameron amps ?? Really ?

I feel bad for those who lost $ and that's it.

The amp is just another piece of equipment.. big deal.

 

[steve_k]

Anybody that stays in this long enough will eventually be fucked over along the way, unless you are shopping at your favorite mom and pop store. I am still owed a couple of Ear Candy cabs, a custom rack switcher from Bob Bradshaw, a guitar from a fairly reputable UK luthier, repair of a broken 59 replica. It is what it is.

 

[engage757]

Anybody that stays in this long enough will eventually be fucked over along the way, unless you are shopping at your favorite mom and pop store. I am still owed a couple of Ear Candy cabs, a custom rack switcher from Bob Bradshaw, a guitar from a fairly reputable UK luthier, repair of a broken 59 replica. It is what it is.

This is true.

 

[Rogue]

And rewarding that behavior is the most obvious, results oriented, action to take. But hey, the tonez!

 

[charveldan]

Anybody that stays in this long enough will eventually be fucked over along the way, unless you are shopping at your favorite mom and pop store. I am still owed a couple of Ear Candy cabs, a custom rack switcher from Bob Bradshaw, a guitar from a fairly reputable UK luthier, repair of a broken 59 replica. It is what it is.

Easy for you to say given ur income.

Those of us who work hard [not saying you don't] and don't make 6 figures can't afford to have the "LA amp bandit" run away with 10K ... eh more or less ... $.02

I'd hire the Mexican mob to go Came-roon hunting if it were me

 

[headlessdeadguy]

And rewarding that behavior is the most obvious, results oriented, action to take. But hey, the tonez!

 

[JTyson]

I really have nothing to add..... although, it is funny to watch noobs come in and think everyone gives 2 shits what their opinion about something they were never involved in is

 

[Mailman1971]

"Mark is a painter of amps when he is on." Yeah right, only if its paint by numbers.

"now here we are painting the Jose....The Jose....careful to keep the brush strokes light...."

 

[Bloodrock]

I really have nothing to add..... although, it is funny to watch noobs come in and think everyone gives 2 shits what their opinion about something they were never involved in is

Welcome to the internet sir...
Cameron thread = great entertainment every time.

 

[JTyson]

I really have nothing to add..... although, it is funny to watch noobs come in and think everyone gives 2 shits what their opinion about something they were never involved in is

Welcome to the internet sir...
Cameron thread = great entertainment every time.

Agreed..

 

[ejecta]

Just thinking out loud; no dog in the fight.

If Cameron's ever to pay folks back, he needs income to do it. Cutting him out of all royalties/payments for the amps completely disincentivizes him to do any more work. That's a bad idea.

Someone else needs to handle the money, diverting a portion to Cameron to keep him working and maybe another portion to a "trust" naming as beneficiaries all the folks that got screwed over. At some point, the trust will pay out to the beneficiaries and this will be done.

Only real trouble is that given the amount of money that's being thrown around (he owes over $40k?!?!?!?), I don't think this will ever work. I don't see how they could sell that many amps. A small niche market to begin with, and now with his name ruined, it'd be hard to make that happen.

Good luck to anyone involved.

Yes, Mark Cameron can only pay back those people he ripped off by working on amps. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom, I assume because some people have a hard on for his amps, even as niche as it is. Isn't it interesting that working a second job to pay off school loans is acceptable, even advisable advice, but Mark Cameron doing a second job to pay back the people that got ripped off isn't? This is the land of WTF is wrong with this place?

You have hit the nail on the head though. These people will not get their stuff back. If Mark Cameron truly wanted to right this, the process would have started long before now. Sure, there's enough coddlers convincing him he can do this with his magic amps skills, so he doesn't have to try real hard to rectify his past wrongs....that his magic amp skills will magically take care of it, but Mark should have been on this long ago.

I'm afraid Mark Cameron's problems and of his own doing and that his character is his character. These handlers are trying, and good for them, but the problem is Mark Cameron. He hasn't fixed it yet and doesn't appear to have made much if any effort to fix it. And coddlers all around convincing him that his great talents will save him as opposed to buckling down and doing what's right.

If we're having to discuss "incentive to work" about a guy that ripped off people, we're talking about failure.

As you said, good luck to all involved. I hope Jason doesn't get wrapped up in the undertow of Mark Cameron.

And there is the truth of the matter. Well said.

 

[TrueTone500]