crwnedblasphemy
Well-known member
A guy by me is selling his American Virtuoso Sea Foam for $1500. I think they are $1999 new. Looks kinda cool, and I dig the unfinished neck. Is the 1500 series any good?
napalmdeath
Well-known member
Yeah, I just picked up a new San Dimas in the Chameleon finish and Full Shred/APII for $599 with a hardshell case. I didn't realize it, but this model was made in Korea? https://www.charvel.com/gear/series/pro-mod/pro-mod-san-dimas-style-1-hh-fr-m/2975031500Honestly after owning a recent American SL3 (Jackson), a handful of MJs (Jackson), and a handful of MIM (Charvel). I would promote MIM over both. Not just for the money saving, but would go as far to say they're all on par fit and finish wise. Though the MJs have better Ebony and Bridge than the SL3 (and probably better than MIM unless you like streaks). Many MIM Charvels pop up new for $500-700. Would recommend the savings on either a stainless FR kit or a Gotoh 1996 and a set of your fav pickups.
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bigviolin
Member
Glad I picked up a MJ used. Soloists without neck binding just look wrong to me.
Fiesta Red
Well-known member
Duncan 59s
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Gitfiddler
Well-known member
Is the Duncan full shred hate justified?
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower
Well-known member
Actually wasn't aware that one was made in Korea. Makes sense if you think about what FMIC is doing with their Jackson Pro Series models where they seem to have more expensive finishes than the X series, so they have them made in China to offset those costs, perhaps? Thanks for sharing that. Have to say that I've been pretty happy with WMI more often than not. So, I don't feel that's automatically bad, but it is unexpected. Have noticed models coming from there seem to be a bit less thick on the clear than Cort builds of the same model, imo is a good thing for poly. Will be interested in your take on it when it arrives to you.
napalmdeath
Well-known member
Yeah, I'm guessing the paint job had it made in Korea. Both Jackson and Charvel had all ash body guitars made in Korea as well last couple years.
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower
Well-known member
The 1500 series is a Korean Made version of the OFR with added stainless parts. It's the same as the FR1000, otherwise. Definitely better than a special. I personally have no problem with it, but have heard/read reports of people having cross threaded issues on some of the Korean FR as well as loose trems. Have not experienced that myself.
That said, those guitars weren't a hit (the used market flooded pretty quick after their release, imo) and iirc were often cheaper than $1500 new. Would probably attribute that a lot to the Korean trem vs what is expected out of an American guitar (at least at the time when they were launched). Not sure why other than FR heritage that they don't just go with a gotoh on so many of these models. They're less expensive and well... better, so would imagine a large contract would be an even better deal. Guess FR name just is more household.
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower
Well-known member
I noticed that, too. What's interesting is I was looking at the HSS https://reverb.com/item/85913980-ch...le-1-hss-fr-m-maple-fingerboard-aqua-flake-rp And it seems to be MIM. I believe that @rsm owns one of these? Perhaps he can confirm. Edit: Also my San Dimas V bass has a sparkling black paint job and is MIM. Maybe it was a production limitation vs cost savings for them at the time? I mean Korea is well to do these days, and may cost as much as manufacturing in Mexico.
hdm3
New member
used custom shop prices arent far off and always worth looking at too. Killer deals out there.
The~Kid
Well-known member
Yeah some MIA Charvel/Jackson stuff has 84 FR but a lot come with 1000 and 1500 too especially production models.......The 1500 series is a Korean Made version of the OFR with added stainless parts. It's the same as the FR1000, otherwise. Definitely better than a special. I personally have no problem with it, but have heard/read reports of people having cross threaded issues on some of the Korean FR as well as loose trems. Have not experienced that myself.
That said, those guitars weren't a hit (the used market flooded pretty quick after their release, imo) and iirc were often cheaper than $1500 new. Would probably attribute that a lot to the Korean trem vs what is expected out of an American guitar (at least at the time when they were launched). Not sure why other than FR heritage that they don't just go with a gotoh on so many of these models. They're less expensive and well... better, so would imagine a large contract would be an even better deal. Guess FR name just is more household.
And I love a 1000 but if your buying an MIA Guitar it should at least have a 1996 Gotoh or an 84 FR...... thats not really asking for much......... Charvel MJs come with 1996 Gotoh
But in either case I still want to lean that the value for these MIA guitars are there even though I do agree with some of these points. But in general would agree with some of your other statements pretty much saying imports have narrowed the gap or caught up to MIJ/MIA in general especially the Indonesian builds like a lot of the Shecter, Jackson, Ibanez stuff but yeah MIM has caught up too.
My 2019 Burgundy Mist San Dimas Pro Mod for example was and is pretty much impeccable and I really thought it couldn't get better but my recent 2025 Pharaohs Gold has even sleeker, smoother and has deeper carves than either my 2019 Burgundy Mist or my 2020 Snow White and both builds are as good or better than any typical Fender MIA/MIJ already or otherwise. So 5 years later not only are they just as good now....... they are even better. Just as thin skin and paper thin paint as always and sleeker, smoother and deeper carves than ever before ^_^
2019
2020
2025
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The~Kid
Well-known member
My understanding behind the San Dimas or some San Dimas being made in Korea vs Mexico isn't so much a price thing it's just a build and manufacturing processing thing.
For the Ash bodies for example with the paint in the grain a certain manufacturing technique is required that the MIM facilities don't have but the MIK facilties do have. Not 100% sure but this is what I have heard and gathered and it's simpler to contract those builds to Korea where the manufacturing technique and tools are to do such sandblasting already vs in the Mexico facility where such techniques aren't in place already.
The~Kid
Well-known member
The pups on these are an excellent combo with the maple board.
Congrats on the stupid deal, killer guitar, the sick paint job and cheers ^_^
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bubucci
Well-known member
i had one of those korean chameleon's and it is on par with MIM or even MIJ and nicer than MIJ Jackson. Fullshred works great in bridge, tight and quick bottom end, precise sharp top end and still more organic than ceramic pickups.
I haven't seen many of those new Jackson in EU yet.
I haven't seen many of those new Jackson in EU yet.
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MetalGOD84
Member
this also sums up my experience with MIM, the guitars are roughly the same price as the MII and similar features and quality as MIA. I cannot recommend enough MIM guitars from Fender group.
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MetalThrasher
Well-known member
Like said above, I'm all about buying a USA made guitar for a reasonable price but this guitar does not have the wow factor I was expecting. Don't get me wrong I'm huge Jackson fanboy but for the quality and workmanship of the SL3 MIA there is little to be desired at the price they are charging (retail). I have a few MIJ Jackson's that I paid less money for and have better workmanship and quality then the SL3 MIA. For the price I paid it was a great buy and a great guitar. However, if I paid over 2k for it I would have returned it. For that price I feel there are better guitars out there at that price point. I was hoping it would be close to a USA SL1, but it is not. The USA SL1 blows the SL3 MIA out of the water and it's not even close.
Wizard of Ozz
Well-known member
F-that. I still have USA SL2Hs when I bought them new for $1300. Keep that Mexi-fornia made trash.
The~Kid
Well-known member
Yeah the MII stuff is damn good and may pick up a Dean ML this year tbh but the MIMs even the Charvels just get more of that Fender feel/tone, hard to explain but they feel more MIA even though they ain't than the MII, both top quality though and the Shecter stuff like the Reaper and Jackson Soloist changed my mind on MII especially the Ibanez stuff. MII is just as good or better than MIM tbh but it's a feel thing IME.
Would agree but would separate MIM Charvel as a cut above relative to standard MIM Fender stuff.
With the MIM Charvels you kind of get something pretty much as good or better even than an MIA Pro ll for example with more features and nicer overall function and utility. I mean it's hard to say they haven't caught up like Lisa said and in this regard MIA amps like Fender or Friedman IMO have more value compared to MIA guitars and it's hard to find an import amp that's as good or better than an MIA one IME although I do love my Boss Mkll Artist/Katana, EVH 5150 Iconics are dope too but yeah ain't no import as good as a Princeton Reverb Reissue or a Friedman BE-OD or something like that.
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The~Kid
Well-known member
Honestly for the SL2 and those prices aren't bad and the Virtuoso could be had for 2000 bucks....... those things look killer and have some decent specs for the price.
Not a bad value for 2000 bucks and MIA, they look pretty killer
Not a bad value for 2000 bucks and MIA, they look pretty killer
Eviltwin8283
New member
Huge gripe with the MIM Charvels. I have a Snakeskin Warren DeMartini, and two Satchel Signatures, old version with the Duncans and new version with the Fluence (which i HATE compared to the Duncans), but the gripe for my when I compare to my 2008 and 2009 MIJ Jacksons (Crimson Swirl Pro DK2 Dinky, Pile O Skulls Pro SL3 Soloist, Eerie Dess Swirl Pro KE3 Kelly) is the damned surface mount Floyd. I can not get into them. I anchor for trill picking when on my wrist instead of my forearm, in which I don't have to anchor, and it's just weird feeling for me. I Love both of my (American Series Jacksons SL3MG Lambo Orange and SL3 Slime Green) because they are Alder bodied and although I prefer the actives in Mahogany and have guitars for that, the Alder with the 81/85is an interesting combo. I already had a MIJ ESP Jeff Hanneman signature with the same combo and a Kahler (way better than Floyd IMO) and it's vicious so I jumped on a Jackson with similar specs.
I've acquired a lot over the years and even was fortunate enough to get to actually meet Dan Jacobs to get permission for ESP to build me an exact ESP USA version of his EX, so I technically own the only ESP USA DJ-EX signature (white red Blood Splatter.) I did the same with Tony Perry and got permission for ESP build me an exact copy of his Slimer Viper(Black, Green slime). Last on the ones I play a lot on the high end of my collection is MY USA Custom Shop SL3, with the speed neck cut and Copper Snakeskin finish (Duncan Distortion and Hot rails). Other than that, It just a bunch of off the shelf stuff that's been modified or left alone. I have a pretty decent arsenal and have to rattle them off here because I'm like a proud father.
Ibanez Premium S920E, ('11) KTS titanium neck reinforcement, the only ever S series w/ Active EMG's, ZR2 ball bearing trem and ZPS3 stabilizer
Ibanez Premium S1070PBZ ('24) Snow White Burst White EMG 81/60 swapped
Ibanez Premium S1070PBZ ('23) Charcoal Black Burst Duncan Blackout EMTY swapped (Mick Thompson's Signatures before he jumped over to Fishman)
Ibanez Premium S1070PBZ ('22) Cerulean Blue Burst DiMarzio Tone Zone-True Velvet-Air Norton
^Yes, 3 of the same, different pups, AMAZING guitars. SICK 11-pc wizard 7 necks and stainless frets and unlike the rest of the premium line, the frets get hemispherical end treatment, they run the Edge 2 Trem and are the only model in the premium line to use the ZPS3. Back into it
Ibanez Prestige S5470F ('09) Red Viking Duncan Full Shred in the bridge, ZR2 and ZPS3
Ibanez Prestige S5570Q ('16) Dark Purple Doom Burst, Dimebucker, Edge 2 ZPS3
B.C. Rich Platinum NJ Warlock ('08) Onyx, Duncan Blackouts, Floyd
B.C. Rich Joey Jordison Warlock ('12) White, Blood Splatter, EMG 81/85, Floyd
B.C. Rich Platinum Warlock ('06) Caution Yellow, Duncan Nazgul/Sentient, String Through
B.C. Rich Warlock MK-11 ('19) Natural Ziricote, DiMarzio DP-100/36th Anniversary P.A.F. Pro, Floyd Titanium, 52mm Brass Block
PRS Ten Top Custom 24 ('19) Transparent Black 85/15
Gibson Les Paul Standard 60's Plus Top ('24) Blueberry Burst, 490R/498T swap from '01 Studio
Gibson Les Paul Studio ('01) Wine Red, Custom Model Hardware Upgrade, Bare Knuckles Black Dog and Rebel Yell, Sperzel Locking Tuners
Gibson Explorer ('86) Ebony, Stock
Gibson Flying V factory Kahler ('84) Alpine White, stock
Epiphone Matt Heafy Les Paul, ('12) Ebony, Stock
Epiphone Matt Heafy Les Paul ('14) Snow White, Stock but added EMG Afterburner and 18V modded
Fender American Standard Stratocaster ('99) Maple fingerboard, 3-Color Sunburst, Vintage Noiseless
Fender American Yngwie Stratocaster, ('86) Vintage White (First Gen) Stock
Fender Custom Shop Yngwie Stratocaster, ('24) Vintage White, Maple Fingerboard, stock
Fender Custom Shop Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary, Chrome, Stock
Fender Telecaster ('72) Black, Stock
Jackson DK2 Pro ('16) Chlorine Blue Burst, Stock
Jackson Phil Demel Demellition, (23') Stock
Jackson USA Mick Thompson ('19) Deep Blood Red (1 of 15) Stock
Comparison Guitars Adam Dutkiewicz Signature Tat, ('22), Spectrum Black, Stock
Parker DF842AD Adam Dutkiewicz Signature Fly, ('09), Black
Kamen GTX Model 33, ('89) Hot Pink to Black Inverting Crackle, bone stock (was my first ever "shred" guitar in 1993, at the age of 11)
I hope you've enjoyed the short book. There are about 20 more guitars that I own that are just turds compared to everything on this list that were acquired when my budget was crap when I was young that were pawn shop and yard sale finds. and three that are so different that I don't share on them too specifically, nor do they even leave their cases except on Dec 8th and Aug 20th for inspection. They are my prize possessions (and probably retirement, should need a bump in cash) because I was lucky enough to be related to someone in the 90's who had unique access to promo models and she just gave them to me when she was done touring them because the company gave them to her after the tours were over since they a had a hundred or more of each one. Her husband wasn't into them and I was the only other person she knew who played guitar. She also knew that trying to sell them, that she'd have gotten robbed on them since she was a Chicagoan back then and shops in the city aren't exactly known for their fair pricing when buying gear. have a good one all