New Mic Day! Sennheiser e609! Guytron GT100 clip inside!

[Variable]

Since the SM57 is absolute death with my GT100 and BuzzBomb, I figured I'd give the e609 a try. Apparently, Guytron uses the e906 (which is very similar to the e609 except with three EQ positions) mic element on their GT20 combos and swears by them.

Here's a pic of how I set this up for the clip below (disregard the 57 on the boom, it's obviously not hooked up )

Clip:

Edit - here is a mono clip since it was requested:

I didn't care for it on its own, so I added the AKG P200 to the mix and panned them hard left and right, respectively. If you want to hear either mic on its own (you probably DON'T want to hear the AKG, it's only there to add some room and high-end), you can just pan left or right. This setup was literally put together in ten minutes; all I did was find a good spot on the speaker and drape the e609.

So far I'd say it's a huge improvement of the SM57 for this amp/cab. The 57 was way too mushy under high gain and didn't mix well with the Perception.

Signal path:
G&L Custom Legacy 2HB (all mahogany w/maple top) -> BB Preamp -> Guytron GT100 B Channel -> Eventide Timefactor (in the loop) -> Earcandy BuzzBomb 2x12 with Guytron BigTone 55 speakers -> Microphones -> E-MU 0404 USB -> Reaper x64

The clip starts off on the Guytron's gain channel with no boost. I then kick on the BB Preamp around a third of the way through. The Timefactor's ducked delay is switched on for the wanky part on my neck pickup, and the clean part at the end is just the volume rolled off on the guitar (yes, the BB preamp is still on!). If anyone is curious, I'm running a BKP VHII set in the G&L.

Let me know what you guys think. I'm still learning all this recording stuff, but I have to say this is a marked improvement over some of my previous attempts the past few weeks. Overall I think the e609 still has some of the good characteristics of the SM57 (warmth, punch), but without a lot of the mud.

Also, I think this is a good time to say RIP to Dr Fritz Sennheiser, who passed away last week. He was truly a pioneer.

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/biography_prof_dr_fritz_sennheiser

 

[Variable]

Bump

 

[JakeAC5253]

Listening to L channel alone. IDK what you are complaining about bro, that sounds awesome. I am surprised how well the mics blend together. If you double track and mix them in mono as opposed to stereo you could get some serious tone out of that setup. Just a thought

 

[gibson5413]

I liked it. Sounds good to my ears!!

 

[JTyson]

I liked it too, which is strange because I hate the 609 by itself Thats a good combo. No phasing issues?

 

[vchizzle]

Sounds good...I don't like the 609 alone either but it tends to mix well with other mics.

 

[Variable]

I liked it too, which is strange because I hate the 609 by itself Thats a good combo. No phasing issues?

Nothing terrible that I could hear. I also had the AKG over three feet away (3:1 rule), so that should have helped with any inherent phasing.

 

[JakeAC5253]

I also had the AKG over three feet away (3:1 rule), so that should have helped with any inherent phasing.

The next time you track with this you could have phasing. That 'rule' is more of a guideline really. Phasing occurs all the time especially with a very directional source like a guitar cab. You really have to blow up and examine the phase relationships in a DAW, or learn to listen for them. I learned this the hard way

Out of curiosity, mix those two tracks in mono and see what it sounds like.

 

[Variable]

I also had the AKG over three feet away (3:1 rule), so that should have helped with any inherent phasing.

The next time you track with this you could have phasing. That 'rule' is more of a guideline really. Phasing occurs all the time especially with a very directional source like a guitar cab. You really have to blow up and examine the phase relationships in a DAW, or learn to listen for them. I learned this the hard way

Out of curiosity, mix those two tracks in mono and see what it sounds like.

Here is a mono clip:

My ears hear some phasing, but I don't think it's out of control. Then again, other ears might disagree

 

[JakeAC5253]

Here is a mono clip:

My ears hear some phasing, but I don't think it's out of control. Then again, other ears might disagree

Definitely some phasing. When you have a close mic and a mic at a distance, you need to adjust for the time difference. Try doing this in your DAW and your tone should become fatter sounding.

 

[JTyson]

I hate that. mostly because I suck at getting rid of it. The 3-1 rule never panned out for me. There is a ton of stuff where I think it dosent matter, but a punchy high gain guitar track always seemed less punchy and defined when I use a room mike no matter where I ended up putting it. I usually end up using a 57 and a 421 in an X pattern at the cab exactly the same distance (diaphragms) from the spkr, and adding an additional track (doubled) with some room plug ins to add a little space.
The verdict is still out on my method I have no idea what I'm doing

 

[Variable]

Here is a mono clip:

My ears hear some phasing, but I don't think it's out of control. Then again, other ears might disagree

Definitely some phasing. When you have a close mic and a mic at a distance, you need to adjust for the time difference. Try doing this in your DAW and your tone should become fatter sounding.

I have no idea how to do that in Reaper...

 

[JakeAC5253]

I have no idea how to do that in Reaper...

Move the room mic track so that it lines up with the close mic'd track. The peaks should be delayed ~3ms I think. Once you get them close enough, blow up the tracks as large as they will go and examine the phase relationships (the phase should look very much like a rough AC signal) and line up the peaks and valleys the best you can. Bounce a copy and post that shit, you've got me interested now

 

[Variable]

I have no idea how to do that in Reaper...

Move the room mic track so that it lines up with the close mic'd track. The peaks should be delayed ~3ms I think. Once you get them close enough, blow up the tracks as large as they will go and examine the phase relationships (the phase should look very much like a rough AC signal) and line up the peaks and valleys the best you can. Bounce a copy and post that shit, you've got me interested now

I think I got it figured out, but I actually used one of the built in Reaper plugins to timeshift it. I maybe got carried away with the doubletracking here...

I did 3ms +10 samples delay on the e609 track, then duplicated both tracks and panned them hard left and right (this was probably overkill).

 

[JakeAC5253]

Stereo panning of a dual-miked source is going to introduce problems of its own. That's why I suggested to mix the tracks in mono.

 

[Variable]

Stereo panning of a dual-miked source is going to introduce problems of its own. That's why I suggested to mix the tracks in mono.

Got it. I updated that last file; try downloading it again and it should just be the two tracks mixed mono with the phase correction.

 

[JakeAC5253]

What you had:

What you've got now:

Good work, now we're talking!

 

[Variable]

What you had:

What you've got now:

Good work, now we're talking!

Awesome It's always nice to come onto Rig Talk and actually learn something

 

[Variable]

I hate that. mostly because I suck at getting rid of it. The 3-1 rule never panned out for me. There is a ton of stuff where I think it dosent matter, but a punchy high gain guitar track always seemed less punchy and defined when I use a room mike no matter where I ended up putting it. I usually end up using a 57 and a 421 in an X pattern at the cab exactly the same distance (diaphragms) from the spkr, and adding an additional track (doubled) with some room plug ins to add a little space.
The verdict is still out on my method I have no idea what I'm doing

How do you like the 421? That's also on my list of mics to try (along with some of the more affordable ribbon mics). I just don't have the coin to throw at it since I'm saving for a decent 8-preamp interface...

 

[JTyson]

Its one of my fav cab mikes. you can use it by itself with surprising results if you find the sweet spot. If you want to cover balls and chunk, it will do that nicely. nice bottom end, the rolloff has 5 positions so you can really get it where you want it. It is an ultimate tom mike also. I have to look for stuff that will do multiple roles because of cost, but it is really one mike I could not live without.
I will say that half the tone I'm getting out of it is a LA610 mic pre, which has changed everything for my recordings. I just need 5 more of them
I wanted to be clear on your tracking situation, you ended up running the tracks in mono, then moving the out of phase track to line up the peaks for correcting the phase? I gotta figure out how to do that, I've heard it works fantastic - great info on this thread