New user sayin Hi....and did I mention my amp just blew?!

[xzyryabx]

Hey guys.....long time lurker but have only posted in the classifieds section.
Been wanting to take an updated gear pic before I said HI but my not so updated one with just some of my guitars will have to do for now!

so Hi and HELP!!

I also need some advice on my new(ish) amp....
Just got an ENGL Savage 120 off a user here less than a month ago and I have never had the volume past 1 on both the master and channel.
He bought it new and used it for just a couple of months (its a 2012 model), but it did not show any sign of abuse and the original tubes are still in it.
Anyways, was just working on some scales when I noticed a slight volume drop and the tone got thinner, figured I was hallucinating, then a few minutes later I hear a loud pop from the amp and cab (the power tubes might have been glowing more than usual but that could be my adrenaline from the scare!) and I start smelling a burning plastic smell, like you get when you're burning a wire to strip it.
I have had tube amps for years (all ENGL BTW) and never had any issues, not even a fuse blow out on me, but I know enough to turn off the amp right away and check the fuses (both powertube fuses in the back seem fine) and I took off the back cover and can't really see any damage.

Thoughts?!

*UPDATE: tubes cooled off and I took em out....not sure what burned tubes look like but I know SOMETHING happened to these....I dont recall any of that silver stuff next to the "6550" being there before...and the writing on one of the tubes changed from silver to orange almost completely...and now theres a brown wavy line towards the top of the tubes that I don't rememebr seeing before, but I could be mistaken...sorry for the terrible pics, proper cam is charging. http://imgur.com/a/YTQY8#5

**UPDATE 2: Thanks all for your input...decided not to touch it....with a tech as we speak. If it just needs a new screen grid resistor and re-tubing it'll cost $80 + 115 for a new pair of SED ==c== 6550s from Laura....if theres more damage, well, my wife better get off her ass and finally get a job!!

On a lighter note, took an updated rig pic (minus the GT-10)!!
(if anybody cares, from L to R: ESP SV, ESP Kiko custom, ESP Horizon III custom, ESP USA custom, ESP CTM PL)

 

[glpg80]

Welcome aboard!

You have excellent taste in gear

Were the ohms set correctly on the amplifier? Burning plastic could be a shroud internally but i do not specialize in Engl's so i am not even going to try to suggest a solution over a gear forum. The best thing you can do right now is leave the amplifier off and have a technician assure no other part failure caused the drop in audible volume that you heard.

Great amplifier - i find myself gassing for an Engl SE right now. I also own an M-II custom special in snow white and love it - it has set itself as my number one

 

[xzyryabx]

Welcome aboard!

You have excellent taste in gear

Were the ohms set correctly on the amplifier? Burning plastic could be a shroud internally but i do not specialize in Engl's so i am not even going to try to suggest a solution over a gear forum. The best thing you can do right now is leave the amplifier off and have a technician assure no other part failure caused the drop in audible volume that you heard.

Great amplifier - i find myself gassing for an Engl SE right now. I also own an M-II custom special in snow white and love it - it has set itself as my number one

Thanks man!
I love those guitars and this is my first time playing/owning a Savage and I fell in love with it....short honeymoon though.
Yup, made sure my 16ohm cab was connected to the 16ohm output on the amp...waiting for the tubes to cool down so I can take a look at them as well...might be hallucinating as well but coulda sworn I saw one of them move when I heard the pop...

 

[glpg80]

Could have been a screen resistor letting go. Savage 120's run 6550's though stock so it should not have been a problem.

Do you have another tube amp you can at least try the preamp tubes in to make sure none of them are the cause? I really do not recommend testing the pre/power sections separately with the guitar plugged into the effects loop in its current condition - normally with cases like this there is nothing you can really do without another amplifier but put it on a bench and start troubleshooting.

 

[The Hoff]

Beautiful ESPs you have there!

Welcome to the board (officially).

 

[xzyryabx]

Beautiful ESPs you have there!

Welcome to the board (officially).

Thanks bud!
Out of all the forums this one seems the least childish/snobish.....on page 350 of of this section of the forum now, only 3000 left to go and i'll be up to date with the local shennanigans!

 

[glpg80]

Visually there is nothing you can go by with tubes due to their inherit design of the plates - the only way to test power tubes effectively is with a tube tester or a known controlled environment - visual inspection is great for mechanical failure but certainly not the most dependable.

 

[Shark Diver]

Welcome.
Nice axes by the way.

 

[shredi knight]

....and did I mention my amp just blew?!



If I could get my amp to do that I'd never leave the house.


And you have a really nice guitar collection to boot (lucky bastard).

 

[glassjaw7]

Welcome aboard! Nice axes!

 

[Bob Savage]

Welcome. Great looking guitars.

 

[glip22]

Welcome out should I say since you have lurked for a while. It sounds to me like a powertube redplated and arcd.The next tube in the pair probably plated as well. The smell as glpg posted is probably a cooked screen grid resistor.Thats exactly how they smell. Hopefully that is all that was damaged if this is the case. Since your fuses may not have done the job you're OT could have been in jeopardy as well. It is likely it is a screen resistor though. Pull the tubes and measure across each leg of the screen resistors. They are usually not difficult to replace but on the Engl they may be as you may have to lift the board. I have no idea how much of a job this is in the Savage. I would also check your fuse values. I always go lower for safety. Looking at them does not always tell you if they are compromised. Check them for continuity on a meter. Do not attempt to replace tubes/fuses and try the amp without troubleshooting the burnt smell. The original seller would have never known this would be an issue so you should not be upset with him at all. Tubes fail. It's the nature of the beast. If you are not comfortable doing this take it to a tech.

 

[jmgman69]

Welcome aboard

 

[xzyryabx]

Thanks for the welcome guys!
Guess it's to a tech it goes...can anybody recommend someone in the greater boston area?
I know there is an ENGl certified repair center around an hour away...do you think it's worth taking it there rather than a recommended local tech (guessing they are going to be more expensive than a local but I know they have more experience with ENGLs)

Thanks,
NJ

 

[glip22]

Thanks for the welcome guys!
Guess it's to a tech it goes...can anybody recommend someone in the greater boston area?
I know there is an ENGl certified repair center around an hour away...do you think it's worth taking it there rather than a recommended local tech (guessing they are going to be more expensive than a local but I know they have more experience with ENGLs)

Thanks,
NJ

What I would do is contact the seller and ask him if he would be willing to contact Engl distribution for an RMA# on warranty repair. There is a form he can fill out and mail to you to send in with the amp. Chances are they will not even notice. Have him use his name and your adress on the form in care of you under his name. Worth a shot. The authorized repair center will not care since Engl will pay them. Tubes on Engls may be covered for six months as well. When I sell an amp that is under warranty I always offer my buyer help like this. He can also just say you are his cousin and he left the amp with you for a month. He was planning to pick it back up in a week or two. You get the idea.

 

[xzyryabx]

What I would do is contact the seller and ask him if he would be willing to contact Engl distribution for an RMA# on warranty repair. There is a form he can fill out and mail to you to send in with the amp. Chances are they will not even notice. Have him use his name and your adress on the form in care of you under his name. Worth a shot. The authorized repair center will not care since Engl will pay them. Tubes on Engls may be covered for six months as well. When I sell an amp that is under warranty I always offer my buyer help like this. He can also just say you are his cousin and he left the amp with you for a month. He was planning to pick it back up in a week or two. You get the idea.

Worth a shot I guess!!

In the meantime I guess i'll order more tubes from Laura so the tech doesn't rape me on tubes...is she still the go-to valve person?
Dougstubes does carry the SED ==c== that I'm looking for and thetubestore is only slightly cheaper than Laura..

I know the best thing to do is take it to a tech, but for experience sake, since I wanted to learn, superficially, how these amps work and how to bias an amp anyways, is there any trouble-shooting that I can do before I take it in?

A few guitar (not amp) techs have suggested:
1) swap in a spare pair of powertubes, turn on the amp and see what happens
2) replace all fuses including mains fuse and turn the amp on (w/o power tubes) and see if the fuses blow.
3) check the screen grid resistors for damage.

 

[glip22]

What I would do is contact the seller and ask him if he would be willing to contact Engl distribution for an RMA# on warranty repair. There is a form he can fill out and mail to you to send in with the amp. Chances are they will not even notice. Have him use his name and your adress on the form in care of you under his name. Worth a shot. The authorized repair center will not care since Engl will pay them. Tubes on Engls may be covered for six months as well. When I sell an amp that is under warranty I always offer my buyer help like this. He can also just say you are his cousin and he left the amp with you for a month. He was planning to pick it back up in a week or two. You get the idea.

Worth a shot I guess!!

In the meantime I guess i'll order more tubes from Laura so the tech doesn't rape me on tubes...is she still the go-to valve person?
Dougstubes does carry the SED ==c== that I'm looking for and thetubestore is only slightly cheaper than Laura..

I know the best thing to do is take it to a tech, but for experience sake, since I wanted to learn, superficially, how these amps work and how to bias an amp anyways, is there any trouble-shooting that I can do before I take it in?

A few guitar (not amp) techs have suggested:
1) swap in a spare pair of powertubes, turn on the amp and see what happens
2) replace all fuses including mains fuse and turn the amp on (w/o power tubes) and see if the fuses blow.
3) check the screen grid resistors for damage.

My post above is a start.

Welcome out should I say since you have lurked for a while. It sounds to me like a powertube redplated and arcd.The next tube in the pair probably plated as well. The smell as glpg posted is probably a cooked screen grid resistor.Thats exactly how they smell. Hopefully that is all that was damaged if this is the case. Since your fuses may not have done the job you're OT could have been in jeopardy as well. It is likely it is a screen resistor though. Pull the tubes and measure across each leg of the screen resistors. They are usually not difficult to replace but on the Engl they may be as you may have to lift the board. I have no idea how much of a job this is in the Savage. I would also check your fuse values. I always go lower for safety. Looking at them does not always tell you if they are compromised. Check them for continuity on a meter. Do not attempt to replace tubes/fuses and try the amp without troubleshooting the burnt smell. The original seller would have never known this would be an issue so you should not be upset with him at all. Tubes fail. It's the nature of the beast. If you are not comfortable doing this take it to a tech.

 

[xzyryabx]

Thanks everyone for the troubleshooting help, especially you glip!
In the end decided this wasn't the amp I would want to start learning repairs on so i took in to a tech...
Turns out both power-tubes were gone, as well as the screen-grid resistor, and they had to replace one of the power-tube sockets.
For the troubleshooting, tubes bias, and parts replacement they charged me 150 (I brought the tubes in from Laura).
Did I get ripped off?
The place was a dump and I was shocked that they ere the official ENGl repair center....expected more from ENGL....BUT the amp is working just fine and I am down $265....coulda been worse I guess!
Shoulda trusted my gut and taken it in to a local builer called Bob Dettore or smthn like that, live and learn I guess!

 

[tripstan]

I don't know what repairs usually cost but I think thats a fair price if not a good deal. I had a similar type of thing happen to my Boogie MK III and took it to Savage Audio here in Savage,Mn and pretty much got ripped off. Alomst $300 bucks for repairs and another $200 in tubes. I told him I need to know what it will cost before he does repairs cause I was tight one money at the time, so please call me before replacing anything. So what happens I get a call like 10 days later saying my amp is done and the total is like $500 bucks, WoW what a joke. So long story short don't go to Savage Audio. I've heard other not so good things about Savage, guys bring in there vintage amps (to Savage) and having old parts that weren't bad replaced so they could keep the 'vintage' stuff for themselves. I don't know of any truth to this but I think the same thing happened to my Boogie, the lead channel never sounded the same after I brought it there. I'm not bashing Savage Audio it's more of a proceed with caution statement if you are going to have them service your gear. It's weird cause he has alot of music celeb's using his amps that praise his works. I also had a Dr Z amp where one of the caps burnt out and repalced 2 power tubes at the same time only cost $130, that was at American Guitar and Band here in Minneapolis. So any MN boys reading this I personally recommend American Guitar and Band.