New York initiates medical martial law rollout with troops

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BatmansRigTalk said:
If they think it's nonsense then clearly their understanding of science is well below any baseline expected of someone working in the field of medical science. They have had ample opportunity not to be willfully ignorant.

Why not just have a witch doctor treat you instead? If blogs and tweets are your primary and direct source for medical science then you are already one chicken short of voodoo.

The fact no one who is an anti-Covid-vaxxers can produce one single shred of a peer review article is all the evidence an intelligent person needs to realize that anti-Covid-vaxxers believe in total pseudoscience.

Might as well just believe in dentists who solve your teeth problems with magic. Read it in a blog and tweet you know? Must be true then.

Same anti-Covid-vaxxers also support quack medicine claims.

By the way, how's it going with Project "drink disinfectant"? Must be true because Trump said it, eh?
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I can only speak for myself, since I am only myself. I am not other people, so don't assume what my ideologies are or beliefs. But
dude, you gotta look past the science jargon for a bit to understand the point you are missing. (Fwiw I don't have a problem with science, but I do have a problem with scien-tism).

The point is, and it's a big point............................Some - people - just - don't - want - the - vaccine. Thats it..plain and simple. No explanation needed, even if they have a thousand reasons. And they shouldn't be discriminated against, bullied, blackmailed, poked and prodded, punished, guilt tripped, shamed by the media and president, labeled, or lose their job over it. They shouldn't have to provide an answer to fuckin anybody. That's it. End of story.
 
Metalhex said:
I can only speak for myself, since I am only myself. I am not other people, so don't assume what my ideologies are or beliefs. But
dude, you gotta look past the science jargon for a bit to understand the point you are missing. (Fwiw I don't have a problem with science, but I do have a problem with scien-tism).

The point is, and it's a big point............................Some - people - just - don't - want - the - vaccine. Thats it..plain and simple. No explanation needed, even if they have a thousand reasons. And they shouldn't be discriminated against, bullied, blackmailed, poked and prodded, punished, guilt tripped, shamed by the media and president, labeled, or lose their job over it. They shouldn't have to provide an answer to fuckin anybody. That's it. End of story.
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If you want to have everything your way, then go to McDonalds.

You have obviously never signed a contract. You have to do what you agree to do or jeopardize your job.

If you want to work in a very public sector as complex as medicine and science, then you can expect not to have it all your way. Your choices affect others. That should be evident from the need to learn and pass exams. Qualified people who are in vaccine denial would fail that part of the exam if they gave pseudoscientific answers. They would not qualify. You might as well be a surgeon who says there is no need to wash their hands because I read it on Twitter or in a Blog. I couldn't care less if it didn't have the capacity to affect other people negatively. However, it will, so we need to care. Who'd have thought health care means caring about others?

You sign a contract. You abide by it. If you can't, then go find another job that lets you have everything you want your way. Become self-employed. Just don't think the world owes you a job and especially not a job interacting with others without rules and regulations.

Yes, people who want to work in medicine and ignore science should be discriminated against. They need to be highlighted as quacks. Just like it has always been done. It is the only way to inform others and get through to the quack because they will just keep on selling snake oil with their shills until they are stopped by public awareness. As for people getting fired, it's their business if they want to go public about it.

This is a key difference between living with the benefits of science and modern medicine and not having someone standing over you with a wooden rattling stick chanting your tumor away without modern medicine to go along with it. Even Christians get they can have prayer and medicine together. Also, much of this anti-vaccine stuff comes from politicians who know better. They are lying for the votes. None of that is from God. Quite the opposite.
 
More vaccine deaths and injuries in the past year than in the past 20 years with all vaccines combined. Yes, sign me up. Oh, wait, I'll continue to listen to science and take Vitamin D, Zinc, NAC and Quercetin. And if that doesn't work, Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin (proven track records, even with Covid, if MSM would stop censoring the info).
 
BatmansRigTalk said:
You might as well be a surgeon who says there is no need to wash their hands because I read it on Twitter or in a Blog.

Yes, people who want to work in medicine and ignore science should be discriminated against. They need to be highlighted as quacks. Just like it has always been done. It is the only way to inform others and get through to the quack because they will just keep on selling snake oil with their shills until they are stopped by public awareness.
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Just a point not many may be aware of:

The doctor who advocated for those working in delivery wards to wash their hands between deliveries was shifted from one hospital to the next before he lost his mind and was locked-up, deemed "insane". He'd noticed a pattern that science hadn't picked up on. Every ward he served in that followed his advice greatly reduced post-natal infection rates. Greatly... and yet the establishment chose to ignore him. After all, his findings hadn't been peer-reviewed, which is another can of worms (if you disagree with your peers, you're much-less likely to be afforded a voice and in fact risk losing your job). We see this in many fields, not just medicine.

So, here you have a dude who made a finding based on observation alone, something that wasn't supported by medical theory of the day and who was chastised to the point of insanity.

Eventually germ theory entered the equation and he was vindicated, but it was too late for the poor bastard.

Food for thought. History is replete with similar examples of establishment, insular thinking and attitudes. It pays to keep an open mind... and follow the money for good measure.
 
CoolGuitarGear said:
More vaccine deaths and injuries in the past year than in the past 20 years with all vaccines combined. Yes, sign me up. Oh, wait, I'll continue to listen to science and take Vitamin D, Zinc, NAC and Quercetin. And if that doesn't work, Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin (proven track records, even with Covid, if MSM would stop censoring the info).
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... and then there're natural-vitamin and herbal solutions, none of which will be given the time of day in this environment. No money in it.
 
Krull said:
What a long-winded blowhard.

And "have it your way" is a Burger King slogan dumb ass ?
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I don't know which is which because I don't pay attention to junk food but have at with bells & whistles on. Makes sense you would know.
 
Never fear Bother Picasso; he'll be back tomorrow so you can kiss him hello or slip him a salami on-the-sly. :LOL:
 
Monkey Man said:
Just a point not many may be aware of:

The doctor who advocated for those working in delivery wards to wash their hands between deliveries was shifted from one hospital to the next before he lost his mind and was locked-up, deemed "insane". He'd noticed a pattern that science hadn't picked up on. Every ward he served in that followed his advice greatly reduced post-natal infection rates. Greatly... and yet the establishment chose to ignore him. After all, his findings hadn't been peer-reviewed, which is another can of worms (if you disagree with your peers, you're much-less likely to be afforded a voice and in fact risk losing your job). We see this in many fields, not just medicine.

So, here you have a dude who made a finding based on observation alone, something that wasn't supported by medical theory of the day and who was chastised to the point of insanity.

Eventually germ theory entered the equation and he was vindicated, but it was too late for the poor bastard.

Food for thought. History is replete with similar examples of establishment, insular thinking and attitudes. It pays to keep an open mind... and follow the money for good measure.
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1847.

Don't you think maybe science has come a little way since then? Like, say, globally being able to replicate experiments and communicate results in real-time to anyone anywhere?

You obviously learned that story from somewhere right? So you went to a source for it because stories change over time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK144018/
They advocated the use of the chlorinated lime solution in addition to washing hands. A system change. Not just water. They hadn't done the necessary research on forwarding the lime solution. So they were introducing a new product into the process, not just water. "New product" argument against it. Sounds like some arguments on this thread.

Science experiments can reverse findings but guesswork from Twitter or Blogs associated with all sorts of other conspiracies and POLITICS, is probably an indicator it will be wrong especially if their references are non-existent.

If a journal consistently gets something wrong it drops in the rankings and the ones that get things right go up the ranks. Bit like natural selection having its way on those not getting vaccinated who strangely enough turn up at the hospital asking for help and often too late. Very few of them at home still on their phones being anti-vaccine at that stage.
 
Picasso said:
Thanks for another novel Batman, tell The Rat we all said hi!
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You are just one hand over the eyes and the other over the mouth of nearly completing the avatar Monkey Man uses.
 
I hear you bro'; it's the concept 'though. Throughout history the go-to argument has been, "Don't you think that with today's wisdom and scientific knowledge... blah blah blah". The argument doesn't change in this regard, and yet breakthroughs and disproofs of established truths never cease.

It would've been easy-enough to confirm the efficacy of that doctor's practise had the establishment had an open mind.

Same thing applies to every person who claimed that gravity affected similar densities of objects the same way, and yet it was millennia(?) until it was proved by someone who undertook the task at his own volition in the face of ridicule and scepticism. Such examples are numerous.

Remember, the concept of experimentation and corroboration you pointed to, which I'm all-for of course, is subject to institutional / industrial / commercial bias and selective exclusion. That's all I'm saying, essentially, hence my lack of blind trust in such processes' being carried out with integrity.

As I repeat ad-nauseum, I advocate for keeping an open mind.
 
Monkey Man said:
I hear you bro'; it's the concept 'though. Throughout history the go-to argument has been, "Don't you think that with today's wisdom and scientific knowledge... blah blah blah". The argument doesn't change in this regard, and yet breakthroughs and disproofs of established truths never cease.

It would've been easy-enough to confirm the efficacy of that doctor's practise had the establishment had an open mind.

Same thing applies to every person who claimed that gravity affected similar densities of objects the same way, and yet it was millennia(?) until it was proved by someone who undertook the task at his own volition in the face of ridicule and scepticism. Such examples are numerous.

Remember, the concept of experimentation and corroboration you pointed to, which I'm all-for of course, is subject to institutional / industrial / commercial bias and selective exclusion. That's all I'm saying, essentially, hence my lack of blind trust in such processes' being carried out with integrity.

As I repeat ad-nauseum, I advocate for keeping an open mind.
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As Carl Sagan quoted, an open mind is fine, just not to the point your brains plop out.

If you read the journal article I posted it talks about "recognize-explain-act". In short, 170 years later there are all sorts of labs and independent bodies looking at what everyone else is doing and carrying out experiments to replicate the results which is what makes something scientific.

Covid vaccine deniers are just cherry-picking Covid vaccines out from everything else. It is an indicator that the cause of cherry-picking is not science but something else. In many cases, these same people share all sorts of conspiracy theories. The trend is pretty obviously political and rooted in pseudoscientific propaganda.

Apparently, your essays aren't novels. That sort of cherry-picking.
 
BatmansRigTalk said:
"recognize-explain-act"
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The common denominator that's to blame in historic incidents the likes of which I gave examples of is in the very-first component of that sequence - recognise.

This lack of recognition occurs at the coalface; relevant information isn't communicated beyond that point. Happens every day. The technical advancement of communication methods that you alluded to earlier plays no role in this scenario.

I've experienced it myself and it really did my head in for a decade or so 'til I followed the money.

Gotta prepare and eat dinner so I'm bowing out for the day, but thank you very much for the conversation, brother. :cheers:
 
I've only had so much as a sore throat within the last 3 years and I intend on keeping it that way by not doing a damn thing different. I know if I get that vaccine it'll fuck up my healthy streak, but that's besides the point.

Batman, nobody owes me a job? Circumstantially we all need jobs (unless you're an illegal alien or a Democrat then you dont need to do shit you'll just thrive on government peanut butter and Obama phones for the rest of your life). It is virtually impossible to just quit everything and "live off the land". Why? Because I have been branded with a social security number at birth, and now I will forever owe this thing called taxes just for being alive (and when I'm dead). All land, zones and districts have all been out on lock and big brother has his flag on every parcel of land. That is how the system is designed. Circumstantially, we simply cannot survive without a paying job. So if I've been thrown into this system since birth, a system that requires people working jobs and collectively paying taxes...then yes, somebody owes me a job, and there had better be some got-damn opportunity to thrive in it, otherwise, don't make it nearly impossible to opt out of said system and be free from all of it. But you already know this, we're just arguing semantics.

Using your logic, then I can say nobody owes you a ventilator. Nobody owes you a hospital bed. Nobody owes you a vaccine.
 
Monkey Man said:
Never fear Bother Picasso; he'll be back tomorrow so you can kiss him hello or slip him a salami on-the-sly. :LOL:
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images
 
It's only left leaning liberals who say things like, good they should be forced to do this or forced to do that. Or they should lose this and lose that.. But they never take the side of freedom. They hate freedom. They want to be free from freedom. They hate themselves. Really, they don't even have a self..
 
Metalhex said:
It's only left leaning liberals who say things like, good they should be forced to do this or forced to do that. Or they should lose this and lose that.. But they never take the side of freedom. They hate freedom. They want to be free from freedom. They hate themselves. Really, they don't even have a self..
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So true brother?
 
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