Not all Pauls are created equal?

  • Thread starter Thread starter amiller
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amiller":au5th9c7 said:
stephen sawall":au5th9c7 said:
I believe this is a mistake a lot of people make ....
Most of what you pay for is the "prettying" up of the guitar.
Binding / paint job / grain / etc.

In no way does this make a guitar sound good.
Often the cheaper guitars sound much better. Even if it is not as pretty. I always try them out not plugged in. I can change the electronics. But I can not make a piece of wood have better tone.

I tend to agree with you. But, I do have an EBMM Y2D guitar that, when unplugged, sounds fuller and louder than any of my other guitars. When I plug it in it's thinner sounding than my LPs even though unplugged it sounds fuller...'go figure. :confused: :lol: :LOL:

Probably the electronics then ...
 
What did you think of the pickup? Did 1 guitar sound awesome and the other sound really crappy, or were they just "different"?
 
dstroud":3cnh63rb said:
What did you think of the pickup? Did 1 guitar sound awesome and the other sound really crappy, or were they just "different"?

If you're refering to the Les Pauls, one sounds great and the other sounded a bit harsh and at the same time lifeless. The one that sounds great has the stock pups. I've swapped out pups in the other one several times. I've had a Duncan Custom, BBQ and now an Aldrich. So far, the Aldrich sounds the best. Having said that, the LP with the original stock pups still sounds the best.
 
The craftsmanship on the Custom guitars from Gibson and Fender seem good. (not saying their are never problems) And craftsmanship is what someone might refer to as QA. Most guitars sitting in GC are not set up properly. Not even close. Is this a QC issue? Or a shipping issue? Not sure ...

However, I was referring to the lack of good tone. A lot of dead wood and guitars with no resonance. I don't even plug a guitar in if it doesn't resonate acoustically! Just goes to the firewood pile. LOL. Most kids who go into GC won't even know that the guitar is firewood ... sometimes a $3500 piece of firewood! LOL.

I have tried to understand why more guitar today seem less resonate than guitars from yesteryear. My only thought is the lack of good woods. I have read articles in Science magazines that talked about trees being grown in nurseries and fed chemicals to grow faster ... and ultimately producing less stable or strong wood. There just might not be a consistent supply for premium wood. (?) Also, I am sure the best wood costs more. And maybe that wood gets snatched up by the Custom Guitar companies. (?)

Perhaps it also has to do with the manufacture's process of treating the wood before it is made into a guitar. I haven't had time to look into this ... but I am sure it costs more to treat or care for the wood to give it the best sound before it is sold as an instrument. (?)
 
carl roa":31kgpuc9 said:
The craftsmanship on the Custom guitars from Gibson and Fender seem good. (not saying their are never problems) And craftsmanship is what someone might refer to as QA. Most guitars sitting in GC are not set up properly. Not even close. Is this a QC issue? Or a shipping issue? Not sure ...

However, I was referring to the lack of good tone. A lot of dead wood and guitars with no resonance. I don't even plug a guitar in if it doesn't resonate acoustically! Just goes to the firewood pile. LOL. Most kids who go into GC won't even know that the guitar is firewood ... sometimes a $3500 piece of firewood! LOL.

I have tried to understand why more guitar today seem less resonate than guitars from yesteryear. My only thought is the lack of good woods. I have read articles in Science magazines that talked about trees being grown in nurseries and fed chemicals to grow faster ... and ultimately producing less stable or strong wood. There just might not be a consistent supply for premium wood. (?) Also, I am sure the best wood costs more. And maybe that wood gets snatched up by the Custom Guitar companies. (?)

Perhaps it also has to do with the manufacture's process of treating the wood before it is made into a guitar. I haven't had time to look into this ... but I am sure it costs more to treat or care for the wood to give it the best sound before it is sold as an instrument. (?)

I think you're getting at it. It all starts with a good piece of wood. Add to that the proper assembly, setup and finish and you just might have a decent guitar. If you start with a block of wood that isn't as resonate as it should be it's not likely to sound decent once it's made into a fully assembled and finished guitar.
 
carl roa":2zi5huqu said:
The craftsmanship on the Custom guitars from Gibson and Fender seem good. (not saying their are never problems) And craftsmanship is what someone might refer to as QA. Most guitars sitting in GC are not set up properly. Not even close. Is this a QC issue? Or a shipping issue? Not sure ...

However, I was referring to the lack of good tone. A lot of dead wood and guitars with no resonance. I don't even plug a guitar in if it doesn't resonate acoustically! Just goes to the firewood pile. LOL. Most kids who go into GC won't even know that the guitar is firewood ... sometimes a $3500 piece of firewood! LOL.

I have tried to understand why more guitar today seem less resonate than guitars from yesteryear. My only thought is the lack of good woods. I have read articles in Science magazines that talked about trees being grown in nurseries and fed chemicals to grow faster ... and ultimately producing less stable or strong wood. There just might not be a consistent supply for premium wood. (?) Also, I am sure the best wood costs more. And maybe that wood gets snatched up by the Custom Guitar companies. (?)

Perhaps it also has to do with the manufacture's process of treating the wood before it is made into a guitar. I haven't had time to look into this ... but I am sure it costs more to treat or care for the wood to give it the best sound before it is sold as an instrument. (?)

I read alot about this subject as well, the more I read the more I believe that it is really a crap shoot wether or not you are going to have a great sounding guitar.

Kiln dried wood has to effect the tone wood imo, the way that many of the mass producers pound out 1000s of guitars a week they do not really have the time to properly let their woods settle and dry. Necks never settle properly as well and neck tenons can loosen. IMO the neck connection, may it be bolt on or set neck, is critical and it has to be TIGHT. The best tone wood without receiving the string energy is nothing. Like that good buzz you get on your nutsack when playing in the classical postion :D

I agree, I have maybe 2-3 guitars that I consider great sounding guitars and that was through years of buying and selling and yes trying a guitar at GC does not really mean you demo'd it ;)
 
I posted this thread on another forum and got back this first hand response. It's a little long but a pretty interesting and telling read:

" what i learned in my research on building a project guitar

yeah, i know, it's blahblahblahblah..
but i thought i'd share for anyone who is interested in building project guitars..

in my years of playing, and building the odd project here and there, the one thing that i consistently saw, was that if it sounded spanky without being plugged in, it'd sound spanky plugged in.

and if it sounded dead sitting in the shop, and if i plugged it in, dead.

(now, this is not to be confused with lots of gain, and radical tone shaping, and all that...
just the basic pure sound of the guitar amplified, versus acoustically playing it)

and i've switched out bridges and electronics, even nuts, and they all did do a little something....

but i think the magic comes from the 'tone' of the neck, and the 'tone' of the body.

and then the mojo is, marrying the two together.


when i researched and built my project strat (see past thread on 'project strat'), my luthier and i, had at our disposal, 5 strats in house, for sell or repairs or work....
3 fender strats of various vintage and country of origin....
and 2 brand new american made strats.

plus, we had a few other strat wannabes-- Godin, Ibanez, the odd project guitar..

we did, at various points in the discovery process, take apart most of them.

one thing i noticed, was that certain 'necks' would not pass the 'tap test'.

what the tap test was, was simply hanging the neck (with all hardware off of it) from a hanger thru a machine head hole, and 'tapping' on the wood with the finger.

you could rap the back of the neck with your knuckle, and you could hear a distinct 'ring' or 'tone' in the wood.
every single neck was different.
some were solid maple, some maple with maple caps, some with rosewood caps....

all different.
as you would expect.

but some were dead sounding, and some were very lively.

needless to say, the 'lively' sounding necks, sounded the best on the bodies.

the bodies, a similar thing.
when i asked for my strat body, i decided on alder, and i specifically asked for the 'lightest 2-piece alder body' they had...

why 2 piece?
i don't know, i guess cuz the nicest body i found in the test, was a lightweight, 2 piece body that had a nitro finish on it, so that's what i patterned after.

i also had read a lot of articles on pros that had vintage strats, and that seemed to be a common thread.

when i got my alder body, while it was still raw, it had that 'tap tone'.

now when we experimented with various pieces at hand, you could hear the difference in the overall sound of the guitar (plugged in or not) when switching the necks out with different bodies.

also, the necks that had vintage style truss rods (one of the reasons i went with the USACG necks over the warmoth necks) was another big 'aha'.

it seems that, the way the wood is cut, and how the truss rod was installed, made the biggest difference of all, over wood types and fingerboard selection...

i took a maple/rosewood warmoth neck, with a gibson conversion scale, the double expanding truss rod thingy (which really makes the neck heavier and somewhat dead sounding) and a/b'd it against my freshly minted USACG neck with rock maple neck and pau ferro fretboard, basically the same neck as the usacg, except for the truss rod and the fret wood.

no contest.

my neck had the 'tap tone', and the warmoth did not.
plain and simple.....

i was absolutely convinced.

another difference BETWEEN my neck and the warmoth i compared to, in particular was the construction of the 'tiltback' headstock.
the usacg uses a volute construction...
the warmoth used scarf joint.
that seems to have some bearing as well.

moral of the story....
it's gotta be the wood.

--------------------------------------------
the first body, was perfect.
1st body, i said....



i had asked for the lightest piece of alder they had....
and tommy at USACG hand picked the body.

when i got it, i did the 'tap test', and it was very toneful.
i did the rough sand, luthier did the fine sand, sealer, primer, topcoat, and after it was dry, we started putting it all together...

when we got the trem posts in, and put the trem on...and put the springs in to tension... it developed a crack right at one of the posts!
seems that there was a hairline fracture in the body, that cut right across the center of one of the trem post holes....
we didnt' see it while we were working on the body, but it was obvious once the crack occurred.

we called USACG, and they did me right.

they sent me ANOTHER body gratis...... let me keep the one that we had almost finished!
so the luthier, kept the body for himself, glued the crack, set it up just like mine, and voila! clone guitar!!!

the 2nd body, was absolutely wonderful.
that was the only issue we had. the neck pocket was super tight (another request on my part) and the tolerances were all as close as you can get a CNC machine to give you!
story about their bodies, on the USACG site...."
 
I worked at a sawmill for a bit when I was a teenager. Take a dozen pieces of wood from the same tree that look about the same. When you hit them they all sound different.

USACG shop is about a 20 min drive from here. I have hung out with Tommy at the shop several times. Believe me some guys who make guitars can tell quite a bit about the tone / resonance before the wood is cut into a body or neck. I learned a bit well hanging out there. Most of it confirmed what I already knew.
..... and by the way a lot of well know builders get there stuff from these guys. Big and small.

The quote above is from someone who knows what he is doing ...
Thanx for posting that here ....
 
I agree about the variation with wood being huge. I have 3 Les Pauls and they all sound different. they sound more different than the 3 strats I have, so go figure...
 
stephen sawall":2fwb5clo said:
One of the best sounding Gibson's I ever played was a Explorer.
HELL. YES. My old Gibson Explorer I paid $700 for sounds just as good as my 1990 Les Paul I paid $1700 for. Not the same tone, but just as good, and more favorable on my back! :)
 
I have a 2008 LP 60 reissue that is smooth as butter and screams, lucky cause i have played others at GC and cant find anyone close. I also have an o8 LP Blonde Beauty (stays locked in the case)that made me go WTF :worship: when I played it through my Mesa MkIII. I will go and play many many guitars before I find one that I bond with. I still havent found a Tele.
 
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