Opinions about needing an EQ in the loop

I've used an eq in the loop sometimes to decrease some mids and volume, then turn it off when I want to poke out in the mix.
I've never needed an eq for an amp to sound good. Except with the Mesas that have em built in. If I can't get there with speakers and tubes, the amp is gonna suck no matter what.
 
Good amps don't need them. I never used them playing live or at home, but in last few years, I started tinkering with 10-band and parametrics in the loop and they can be helpful. If I was ever showing up to a gig with backline, I'd probably always have one on my board.

I tend to play at lower volumes at home so some of my amps benefit from eq's in the loop using just slight tweaks. That all changes when I open the amp up a bit with volume; obviously, more highs and lows come out.
 
Imagine somebody handed you a theoretical amp that had the perfect gain structure for you, perfect gain texture, best gain adjustment through the sweep of the entire gain knob(s), best compression or lack thereof, best clarity for you, best poweramp behavior... but the EQ knobs didn't behave in a way that suits what you're trying to do. You know you will never find an amp with better gain for your style of playing.

Do you throw the baby out with the bathwater because only part of the amp is perfect for you, and instead buy a different amp altogether with a better tonestack but worse gain characteristics? Or do you put an EQ in the loop?

What if guitar gear was made differently? What if instead of everything being contained in one big amp head, the preamp gain section came in its own individual tolex box, and you plugged it into a separate EQ section which was also enclosed in its own tolex box, which you then plugged into a dedicated power section, also enclosed in its own tolex box? Would you look at the question differently?

What if amp heads and 4x12 cabs came built together like large combo amps and the concept of the separate speaker cab was never invented? Would you also refuse to ever consider changing out the speakers to something you liked better because the speakers are "part of the amp" and if the speakers aren't great then "the whole amp" isn't just isn't what you're looking for?

imo it's limiting to think of an amp as the smallest unit of tone generation in the chain. If you think of amps as singular all-or-nothing magic black boxes that either are or are not exactly what you want in every way, you'll miss out on a lot of possibilities for yourself. If you treat amps more like collections of components in the chain that happen to come in one box, it becomes easier to see what you need to do to get the sound you want.
 
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This is a cool thread... I have thought about this more than once myself...

For the last 15 years or so, I have always had an EQ available because I am always running my amplification in 4CM with a Fractal (or similar) processor, but, for some reason, if I *have* to use even a little bit of EQ in the post FX, I somehow always think less of the amp and it makes me GAS for something else.

Intellectually, I know I should be thinking of it as just another tool in the signal chain and that by running it with a processor both pre and post amp, I am already not being a purist; but emotionally it somehow irks me to the point where it makes me want to go amp shopping. LOL.

There's been a couple of cases where I am just like putting a <1db boost on one or two frequencies to get it where I want and in the back of my head, I am like "f* this EQ-needing amp". LOL.

Boosting or pre-EQ somehow does not bother me one bit but post somehow feels like 'cheating'.
 
Imagine somebody handed you a theoretical amp that had the perfect gain structure for you, perfect gain texture, best gain adjustment through the sweep of the entire gain knob(s), best compression or lack thereof, best clarity for you, best poweramp behavior... but the EQ knobs didn't behave in a way that suits what you're trying to do. You know you will never find an amp with better gain for your style of playing.

Do you throw the baby out with the bathwater because only part of the amp is perfect for you, and instead buy a different amp altogether with a better tonestack but worse gain characteristics? Or do you put an EQ in the loop?

What if guitar gear was made differently? What if instead of everything being contained in one big amp head, the preamp gain section came in its own individual tolex box, and you plugged it into a separate EQ section which was also enclosed in its own tolex box, which you then plugged into a dedicated power section, also enclosed in its own tolex box? Would you look at the question differently?

What if amp heads and 4x12 cabs came built together like large combo amps and the concept of the separate speaker cab was never invented? Would you also refuse to ever consider changing out the speakers to something you liked better because the speakers are "part of the amp" and if the speakers aren't great then "the whole amp" isn't just isn't what you're looking for?

Imo it's limiting to think of an amp as the smallest unit of tone generation in the chain. If you think of amps as singular all-or-nothing magic black boxes that either are or are not exactly what you want in every way, you'll miss out on a lot of possibilities for yourself. If you treat amps more like collections of components in the chain that happen to come in one box, it becomes easier to see what you need to do to get the sound you want.
I agree with that on paper and the idea behind it, but I haven’t yet tried a great amp with an eq that was really that bad. Like you said also, it would only really be applicable to amps that from the get go you hear a great inherent tone that just needs some extra tweaks to be just right
 
EQ in the front is just another tool to me, just another flavor of boost

EQ in the loop means the amp isn't right for me. if your amp is so far off from where you need it to be, there's another amp that's better suited to you.

I can see how it's a necessary evil in some situations though - especially backline, youre stuck with a less than idea rig, or an amp just needs a couple tweaks to be perfect for you

I agree with that on paper and idea behind it, but I haven’t yet tried a great amp with an eq that was really that bad. Like you said also it would only really be applicable to amps that from the get go you hear a great tone that just needs some extra tweaks to be just right

I'm with Sam on this one.

Honestly an EQ in the loop would have ruined most of the really really nice amps I've owned or played. Generally amps are designed to respond in the EQ section a specific way for specific uses. Trying to make it be something it's not can only work temporarily. I don't think it's "cheating" - I think it's "one more thing to go wrong in a live rig that's unnecessary except in the most dire of circumstances"
 
EQ in the front is just another tool to me, just another flavor of boost

EQ in the loop means the amp isn't right for me. if your amp is so far off from where you need it to be, there's another amp that's better suited to you.

I can see how it's a necessary evil in some situations though - especially backline, youre stuck with a less than idea rig, or an amp just needs a couple tweaks to be perfect for you



I'm with Sam on this one.

Honestly an EQ in the loop would have ruined most of the really really nice amps I've owned or played. Generally amps are designed to respond in the EQ section a specific way for specific uses. Trying to make it be something it's not can only work temporarily. I don't think it's "cheating" - I think it's "one more thing to go wrong in a live rig that's unnecessary except in the most dire of circumstances"
Eq’s in the loop are generally pretty drastic IME. I like them sometimes out front for some fine tuning. In the loop they become more like an extreme/exaggerated effect in a way that isn’t as practical
 
Eq’s in the loop are generally pretty drastic IME. I like them sometimes out front for some fine tuning. In the loop they become more like an extreme/exaggerated effect in a way that isn’t as practical

In a way, I think this is kind of a "playing/recording at home" versus "playing with a band" type of debate

I can definitely see how an EQ in the loop would be fun to fuck around with, just dicking around

But being dependent on that in a live band setting just seems like a bad idea
 
I agree with that on paper and the idea behind it, but I haven’t yet tried a great amp with an eq that was really that bad. Like you said also, it would only really be applicable to amps that from the get go you hear a great inherent tone that just needs some extra tweaks to be just right

I think I've developed my opinion specifically because of my Bogners, particularly the Helios 100, hah. I love the raw and ragged "vintage meets modern" gain character it has, but its tonestack leaves a lot to be desired I think. For example, the Mid knob acts more like a high shelf that starts just below the mids, and the amp is very light in the lows, even with Bass and Depth maxed. It's tough to get that amp where I want it overall with just the onboard EQ. Adding an EQ in the loop in that amp can totally transform it. The EQ can give the amp the low end thump it needs to rock, and you can make broad-Q adjustments to cutting or boosting mids that take the amp in really awesome directions you just can't reach with the onboard controls.

I'll admit most amps aren't like that though.
 
I think I've developed my opinion specifically because of my Bogners, particularly the Helios 100, hah. I love the raw and ragged "vintage meets modern" gain character it has, but its tonestack leaves a lot to be desired I think. For example, the Mid knob acts more like a high shelf that starts just below the mids, and the amp is very light in the lows, even with Bass and Depth maxed. It's tough to get that amp where I want it overall with just the onboard EQ. Adding an EQ in the loop in that amp can totally transform it. The EQ can give the amp the low end thump it needs to rock, and you can make broad-Q adjustments to cutting or boosting mids that take the amp in really awesome directions you just can't reach with the onboard controls.

I'll admit most amps aren't like that though.

This makes a ton of sense, with the helios

it definitely is an amp where the eq in the loop would make sense

For most high end amps though, it seems like this would be unnecessary/redundant

I guess to me, it makes a lot more sense for a DSL or 5150 or some sort of more vanilla/popular high gain amp to get an EQ in the loop
 
I have no experience with them until recently but how does that affect everything Wayne?
well first .... being true bypass .... you won't have to worry about a buffer sucking your tone ....

and on the one I make .... there isn't a Volume control / gain boost .... this allows the EQ to be MUCH more quiet ....

I kind of had " using it in the loop " in mind when I did mine ...... I didn't want a boost in my loop .... just a sculpting tool ... just doing what it's suppose to and remaining as transparent as possible otherwise
 
If it works, then don't fight it and just go with it. If it doesn't sound right for whatever reason, then it's obviously not working so move on.

It use to bug the shit out of me that I wasn't happy with a Recto or 5150 without a boost; and then it hit me that I'm always boosting a 2204 and loved it, so... I got over it. Just do whatever gets it done.
 
To each their own for sure, but not even a question for me. EQ in front in a frown, EQ post in a smile. It’s the meat and potatoes of my setup. I add color around that.
Can we sticky this? Lol, I couldn't agree more. This is like my baseline, then I'll tweak each EQ to taste based on the room and cab. Or I'll swap the EQ in front with the boost of my choice. Or I'll use the EQ in front to sculpt the boost. So many options.

I'd say the bigger deal breaker for me is if an amp has a shitty loop...then it's just not gonna work for me. Sure all loops suck some tone, but some are MUCH better than others.
 
I use an EQ in the loop for every amp I own and all but 2 (my ground Zero modded amps) use a boost as well.
 
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