Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII or Bogner Shiva 20th?

[flimz]

Thanks for all the replies again! I just added another amp to my list, which stretches my money thin...a 20th Bogner Ecstasy. I found one in my price range...kind of. The only way I'll pull the trigger on that is if I feel like it is worth the money, and can be more versatile than either of the others I'm looking at.

So, lets throw this one into the mix...as a comparison. Does the 20th Ecstasy have more gain on tap than either the Orange, or 20th Shiva? I'm a huge fan of using the amp to get the dirty sound, not an OD pedal. I'm not against using OD pedals, and own a couple...however, I prefer the amp to be able to do it itself. That's the reason I'm concerned about the gain available with each of these amps. I'd rather have too much than not enough.

How does the 20th Ecstasy compare to the 101b....is it really worth the extra money?

Back to the 20th Shiva, and Orange. I'm still trying to figure out which one has more gain, and more saturation in the dirty channel. I understand that neither of these amps are ideal for metal, but again...I'm not really going for the brutal metal tone, if I was, an Uberschall, Herbert, VH4, Rectifier, etc would be the amp I'd go for. I'm just looking for the most versatile of the two, with the gain structure being the highlight. If the 20th Shiva, with the mode switch engaged, has a heavier, saturated distortion over the Orange, then that's the winner. I've owned the Orange Rockerverb MKIII, and enjoyed it. That's why I'm thinking about going back. However, something about a Bogner...

Again, which ever one can get more gain direct from the amp will be the winner.

Then we got the 20th Ecstasy....

I own a 100B XTC, I've played a 20th XTC briefly and did own a 20th Shiva. The 20th XTC is far superior to the 20th Shiva to my ears and needs. That would be my pick of the three.
The 20th XTC has way more useable gain than the Shiva, the Shivas' gain falls apart where the XTC stays tighter.
The 20th XTC is more open sounding than the 101B, the 101B is more compressed. I prefer the 20th.

I agree with this. I had the Shiva 20th and now have the XTC 20th. Everything I loved about the Shiva, the XTC does better.

 

[RockyStar]

Bogner hands down...

I would grab the 20th XTC if possible, especially if it has all the options.

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah, of all three, I'd go with the XTC.

 

[LunatiBSW]

some guy posted a vid of the shiva 20th here, that's definitely brutal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm85j5W9LCE&t=3s

That was me
It was a Gibson les Paul with Hetfield EMG's into the shiva. Boost engaged on the amp, scooped to hell, in the modern tonestack.
That guitar screams metal. It helped the amp get there, I def preferred my uberschall twin jet, so it stayed

 

[Beandust]

I owned a 20th anny kt88 shiva with verb for about a year, very highly regarded amp.It has signiture tone(Bogner) without question.In my findings of buying amps thru research and videos isn't always so easy as which has more gain or enough gain as you mentioned.Even tho one builder may have more gain than the next or less it's going to be more in the ears and hands of what your after tone stack wise. I really liked the Shiva 20th but it had as mentioned here and in other threads a differnt type of distortion.Very good and rich, but different. It had plenty of gain, it found it very low mid voiced in the tone stack.I sold it to someone who preferred el34s, he swapped them and blew a tranny, so he said. He said he had a tech do it, if it's a lifetime guarantee as bogner gives,make sure the tech is Bogner certified. I have tried several amps looking for that sound in my head, the bogner was nice and a lessened learned. I'd say they both are slightly low mid voiced but I could be way off as I've only played an orange briefly.Great amps.GLWT search

 

[zewango]

Right now I have a 20TH Shiva with El34'S. Metal to me is Priest/Maiden and it does that with ease. Shiva is an amp that needs to be cranked to really make it shine. Just played two gigs this weekend where I could open it up and it was great. Didn't fall apart thats for sure.
I just traded away my XTC 101B and they are very different. XTC is more vintage. For me I liked the 101B over the Classic and 20TH XTC.

 

[Z_13]

You guys are awesome! Thanks for the knowledgable responses!

I really don't know what to do....I'm running out of time! I wanted to buy an amp during the Black Friday sales events going on throughout the web. As I've stated, I owned an Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII and really liked it, but I just kind of want something different. I could go back to the Orange, but there has to be something else out there better suited for me. I wish I lived by more music stores that carried higher end amps, but I don't. The closest stores that do are a couple hours away.

The Uberschall had amazing distortion tones in my opinion. Super thick, full. Incredibly saturated, too much gain, lol, which I liked because I could turn the gain down, but have more in reserve if I ever wanted it. The problem with the Uber is that I believe it is a one trick pony, and I'm not only playing hard rock/metal. So, the Uber is out of the question at the time.

I found a used 20th Ecstasy on reverb.com for $3,000. However, the owner told me that it'd have to be re-tubed, which isn't a big deal....just don't know if I want to buy the amp, buy tubes, and pay someone to bias the amp. Especially when I don't even know if it's an amp I'd really, truly want. It does sound amazing though!

Sweetwater has a 20th Shiva, with no reverb (which I'd prefer since I use a Strymon Big Sky) that is in my price range, just don't know if I want to pull the trigger or not. Wish I could try these amps out!

On top of all that, I have a Musicians Friend CC with a decent amount of available credit. MF is running 36 months SAC financing. Essentially every amp on that site is in my price range except the VH4, and the SLO100 with depth.

I guess at this point my options are:

Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII
20th Shiva - No Reverb
20th Ecstasy (Used - Needs new tubes)
Marshall JVM 410/210/205
Soldano SLO100
H&K Triamp MKIII
Diezel Herbert (MF has an open box)
Splawn Quickrod
Friedman Butterslax (Not a big fan of signature gear though..)
Friedman BE-100 (This was the last amp I owned, and sold it. It was a great amp, but was just missing something. It's the last amp on my list, but I'd consider going back to it...it wasn't that bad)

No, I know you guys might be like...WHOA! WHAT HAPPENED TO JUST TWO AMPS!!, lol. All though this list is bigger than the original, a lot of these amps can be taken off the list easily. These are just the amps that are in my price range, and that might be up my alley. I've done hours, and hours, and hours of research these last couple weeks. These are all the finalists.

I have an incredibly tough decision to make. I just want a good, "do it all" amp. I know that might not be completely possible, but I have to be able to get close to it.

 

[hatrick00]

I own a 20th Shiva with KT88s.... it covers A LOT of ground. One of the best cleans you will ever hear in a high gain amp IMO. It is the best clean in my collection. It has gain for DAYS. It is true that it is a different type of gain. Very hard to describe. Best way I can describe it is that the uniqueness is in the mids. It seems to be a very mid driven amp. I run mine through V30s which prob adds to the mids. But I will say I LOVE this amp. It really is so versatile. I can play heavy with the gain at like 1 o clock with the boost on and it sounds brutal. It is more of a saturated saggy type of gain I will say. I really dig the amp, and for me it is a staple in my collection for the uniqueness it brings to the table. And the cleans can't be messed with, they are so good. Just for full disclosure my other amps are 2016 BE, JJ, EVH 100 stealth 6l6, and Voodoo modded Uberschall. It can hang with any of my amps, but I choose different amps for different objectives. I hope this helps you lol.

 

[4406cuda]

I play in a cover band and use a 20th Anny Shiva with KT88's

Perfect for what I do.

 

[Z_13]

What does everyone think about the Diezel D-Moll?

 

[sg guy]

-when did ORANGE quality take a shitter? This thread is the first and only time I've heard about it.

-I'm in the minority, I think bogners have a certain "dullness" to there tone.... And yes I have!! UBER REV. 2 GREEN.

 

['63-Strat]

Looks like there's a 20th anny xtc on reverb for $2450 right now, fyi...

 

[se7en]

if you go with the Shiva get KT88's over EL34's. that said, i liked the 20th XTC better and sold the Shiva. the Shiva is more focused, the XTC wider.

 

[Z_13]

Looks like there's a 20th anny xtc on reverb for $2450 right now, fyi...

I wish this was true

It's listed as a 20th Anniversary, but it says 101B on the back of the chassis. It also has a black chassis, not a gold one. This guy is trying to trick people!

 

['63-Strat]

No that is def a 20th they *all* use the same 101b chassis.

 

['63-Strat]

The gold is only on the front and it is just a faceplate not an all gold chassis.

 

[Z_13]

Well, I've narrowed it down to an Uberschall, or a D-Moll. I do play a vast majority of genres, and consider myself a versatile musicians. However, I do mainly play rock, hard rock, and metal. I had to really sit down, and think what would suit me the best.

I've owned 2 Uberschalls, and loved both of them. Love the tone you get from a Bogner. I had to sell them years ago, and always said I'd get another one someday.

I've never played a Diezel, but have heard nothing but good things. The D-Moll seems like it'd be up my alley, but I have no way to test one. The D-Moll also does not come with a footswitch?, and I don't own a MIDI controller....yet.

I spoke with Reza who gave me some good advice. If anyone else has an opinion, please chime in!

I will be buying one of these two within the next couple days....while black friday coupons are still floating around...or even cyber monday.

Thanks!

 

[Z_13]

The gold is only on the front and it is just a faceplate not an all gold chassis.

AHH!!! I had no idea! Well, damn...

 

[Jdub]

some guy posted a vid of the shiva 20th here, that's definitely brutal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm85j5W9LCE&t=3s

Yeah but check out his butterslax video he plays faster metal,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvO7C3Rlris

Its the quick picking that I find isnt great with the 20th Shiva. It can do that Tool stuff he played in the video well because it does have a nice aggressive character to the voicing. Its not gonna keep up with Testament or even Killswitch Engage type stuff that well..If you boost the shit out of it to tighten up the attack yeah but its till wouldnt be my first choice. A 5150 would do that better.....

Now if you want Tool and more stoner type metal yeah the Shiva would do it pretty good...For me the 20th Shiva is the perfect Alice in Chains type of sound, Aggresive and Heavy rock at its finest , not hair metal , not modern metal...The Shiva has attitude !

Yep. Shiva is more of a hard rock than a metal amp, but boosted it does turn into a monster, yet still still with slowish attack. I love the Shiva and would take it over any Orange any day. I would not get the 20th though. iIwould get a regular Shiva and boost it. I never really bonded with the 20th shiva or XTC. I like the older ones though.

 

[RockyStar]

With the latest list you posted it is hard to beat a Herbert for the genre's you mentioned coupled with its versatility. The loops are great, power section is amazing, clean tones are amazing, rock and metal tones are amazing. A very versatile amp and not to mention the tube options you can get with it. Hard to beat for one amp doing all kinds of things with all kinds of options. The XTC is very versatile as well. The Herbert has more sag like the Uberschall you like than the XTC has.