OT: remember the car-refinance thing?

[kannibul]

Otherwise, you'll have to keep hearing from guys that seem to know more than you about your situation.

I don't need to know any thing more about the guy's situation to know that he is making flat stupid financial decisions. Nothing lame about pointing them out - maybe he'll get a clue. Frankly, I could give a shit less what the guy does with his money, however, if he's gonna cluttter up my favorite gear board beaming over dumb decisions, I'll pipe up every time.

What is lame is encouraging him to continue down the path he's taken if you ask me...

Steve

Ok, so paying off debt is a bad financial decision?

It depends on what the relative interest is. If your debt is in the low single digits, then the 401k is definately more return on your current dollar. In any case, your 401k sounds like its up 50% from day 1.

Paying off debt is a good decision, but not at the expense of free money in the future.

Our debt is in the lower-middle 5-figure range. I get her card paid off, then I'll consider 401K. Right now, if I try to do something else, I'll end up doing nothing. I have to remain dedicated to this plan, else I'll just say "fuck it" and go back to the status-quo.

 

[tweed]

Way to jump to a conclusion that is at least mostly wrong.

I surely don't have a "woe-is-me" thing...

Sorry for that then. Sure sounded like it with all this weird logic and all the sickness/illness comments you were making.

 

[Anonymous]

Otherwise, you'll have to keep hearing from guys that seem to know more than you about your situation.

I don't need to know any thing more about the guy's situation to know that he is making flat stupid financial decisions. Nothing lame about pointing them out - maybe he'll get a clue. Frankly, I could give a shit less what the guy does with his money, however, if he's gonna cluttter up my favorite gear board beaming over dumb decisions, I'll pipe up every time.

What is lame is encouraging him to continue down the path he's taken if you ask me...

Steve

Ok, so aggressively paying off debt is a bad financial decision?

When did I say that?

Steve

 

[kannibul]

Otherwise, you'll have to keep hearing from guys that seem to know more than you about your situation.

I don't need to know any thing more about the guy's situation to know that he is making flat stupid financial decisions. Nothing lame about pointing them out - maybe he'll get a clue. Frankly, I could give a shit less what the guy does with his money, however, if he's gonna cluttter up my favorite gear board beaming over dumb decisions, I'll pipe up every time.

What is lame is encouraging him to continue down the path he's taken if you ask me...

Steve

Ok, so aggressively paying off debt is a bad financial decision?

When did I say that?

Steve

You said I'm making "flat stupid financial decisions"

I'm paying off debts.

Logical conclusion, you're saying that paying off debt is a flat stupid financial decision.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, explain how it's free money, where if I need to use that money, I get hit with something like 25% in taxes, except in very special circumstances...none of which are easily accessible (CD's are...).

This is an unfathomably mind boggling thought process. I mean, dude - you are gonna get hit with taxes up front anyway at whatever tax rate is currently applicable to you. What part of "tax-deferred" do you not understand?

If I'm paying in 6%, and they're paying in 8%, that's still less than whatever gets taken out if I want to use that money. Then add to that the risk involved with it being uninsured, and seeing the stock market tank like it has....

Obviously the concept of percentages is completely foreign to you. This logic is completely ridiculous.

Ok... Let's say you tax defer 6% through your 401K and your employer matches your 6% contribution. YOU JUST DOUBLED YOUR MONEY! Now... lets look at how this tax deferred thing helps. YOUR MONEY IS GROWING TAX FREE! So... compound interest over time is going to make you FAR more savings then you could possibly have after taxes, where your principle is reduced. The more and EARLIER you put money away the larger your savings will go for a given investment/risk scenario.

So look... if you needed to get the money out at some point (WHICH YOU SHOULD BE AVOIDING AT ALL COSTS ANYWAY), of course you will pay taxes on it, but you would have paid those UP FRONT ANYWAY.

You don't have to put the money in the stock market of course and the money in certain types of accounts is insured.

I cannot believe this is not self-evident....

That's my issue with it....that, and my Dad got a substantial settlement for a work related injury (6-figure) (a real injury he's still having to deal with, at that), he put it in stocks, and the .COM bust happened. Lost 95% of it....

He had a bad asset allocation if that is the case. Don't make the same mistake.

That being said, I know the match my company does is at an unheard of level, and it would be stupid to not take advantage of it at some level, but considering the risks, I'm skeptical on it - maybe I'm just not savvy enough to see what others see in it...If anything it'd be for her, but, I'd rather pay off our debts NOW, and then have less to worry about NOW. Then I can think about later.

You can't ignore free money regardless.

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

You said I'm making "flat stupid financial decisions"

Yes, on a variety of fronts

I'm paying off debts.

I commend you for that aspect, however, the way you are going about much of this is stupid and frankly I and others have explained this to you before. You also seem to have no concept of percentages and have made the most ridiculous comments with respect to tax deferral. Truthfully, it seems you have no concept of how to handle money effectively and it is going to hurt you and anyone who relies on you. Hell, it may even hurt me when your dumb ass is still alive at 75 with no savings or visible means of support and my taxes have to support your "golden years".

Logical conclusion, you're saying that paying off debt is a flat stupid financial decision.

No, that would be the illogical conclusion. Are you using a "Jump to Conclusions" mat to arrive at these? Or is this really how your mind works?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

[You have that much debt? You shouldnt buy anything until you pay it off. I would even skip the 401k.

I wouldn't. I would fund to the matching contribution no matter how much it hurt and I had to give up buying drum heads. You are talking about a ridiculous rate of return and tax deferral. I don't care what you owe, you MUST take advantage of that and find other ways to address your debt, even if it means taking an additional job cleaning toilets.

Steve

 

[kannibul]

Otherwise, you'll have to keep hearing from guys that seem to know more than you about your situation.

I don't need to know any thing more about the guy's situation to know that he is making flat stupid financial decisions. Nothing lame about pointing them out - maybe he'll get a clue. Frankly, I could give a shit less what the guy does with his money, however, if he's gonna cluttter up my favorite gear board beaming over dumb decisions, I'll pipe up every time.

What is lame is encouraging him to continue down the path he's taken if you ask me...

Steve

Ok, so paying off debt is a bad financial decision?

It depends on what the relative interest is. If your debt is in the low single digits, then the 401k is definately more return on your current dollar. In any case, your 401k sounds like its up 50% from day 1.

Paying off debt is a good decision, but not at the expense of free money in the future.

Our debt is in the lower-middle 5-figure range. I get her card paid off, then I'll consider 401K. Right now, if I try to do something else, I'll end up doing nothing. I have to remain dedicated to this plan, else I'll just say "fuck it" and go back to the status-quo.

You have that much debt? You shouldnt buy anything until you pay it off. I would even skip the 401k. I am sure you are paying 10% interest and making minimum payments, so over time you are paying interest on interest You needd to eliminate the "fun money" account until you are 99% debt free. Anything else is just ignorant. I am saying this to you like a father, not a preacher.

Even at the minimum payment, the interest payment is still less than the actual payment. Still sucked...

Again, the "fun" account was just a name carried over from when I had the band and had costs associated with it (storage/practice space rental, insurance, U-Haul rentals, replacement costs), which at the time was around $150/mo.

After the band, I doubled it to push ourselves to stop bleeding money. Starting next week, that amount will be more than doubled to cut us back on everything as much as we can bear...with us paying it all towards my CC, and then roll my "new" CC payment into her card, and hopefully have the two of them knocked out in a year, maybe less. After that, given the spreadsheet thing, the car would be paid off in just a few payments. Then we're doing really good compared to now...I can start saving for a large down-payment on a vehicle, and finance it for as short as possible (if at all), and have it paid for in 3 years or less, at most. About then, maybe her car needs replacing, we do the same thing. Then we don't have to replace those vehicles for at least 5-10 years, and can roll it all into 2-3x payments on the house, and have it paid off before we need to get new vehicles again...

 

[AmpliFIRE]

My company stopped matching the 401k since they were bought out.

I'm hearing that more and more companies are starting to do the same as well

 

[kannibul]

I guess I can't get passed the "free money" aspect, when it costs me more money to get said money and use it.

Of course, I am discounting growth/interest - but I don't have faith in the stability of the economy to "bet" on it.


XYZ company gets an investment from me, say 25% ownership. Company makes a profit, I get 25% of that profit, right? That's all and good, but, what does it take for a company to make a profit? So far, from what I've seen, it means cooking the books...seriously though, it takes customers, spending money - am I still on the right track?

What's one thing no one is doing right now - spending money...conclusion - there'll be record lows/losses posted, the economy will continue to tank, and there goes my investment.

I've had that thought in the back of my head ever since I took high school economics class and we did a fake stock market investing scenario. More than 75% of the people in class lost their ass. Oddly, I came out ahead because I diversified and took safer stocks. Granted that was highschool....but I remembered how many people "lost" money...

I'd rather spend the money on strippers and hookers than loose the money in the stock market...

Granted, my company gives me more money to gamble with, but does that make the gamble percentages any less? no...it's still a gamble - just when you loose that money, it hurts that much more because you think of what you could have had if things didn't go sour...

Now, if I'm totally wrong about this, say so, and explain it to where I can understand it. I appreciate your concern and input on it, but I still don't "get it", I guess.


Stuff it in a bank (but no more than what the FDIC will cover), buy up material-goods, that's what I have faith in.

 

[kannibul]

My company stopped matching the 401k since they were bought out.

I'm hearing that more and more companies are starting to do the same as well

I've heard that too, and it's a reason why I should take advanatage of it, just, I can't get passed the risk factor.

Why not go to a casino, ya know?

 

[mysticaxe]

Well, it sounds like your mind is made up. Good luck with your strategy.

 

[Bob Savage]

You said I'm making "flat stupid financial decisions"

I'm paying off debts.

Logical conclusion, you're saying that paying off debt is a flat stupid financial decision.

That is one of the most hilarious syllogisms I've ever seen. Jeff, you really have a twisted sense of logic.

 

[Bob Savage]

You have that much debt? You shouldnt buy anything until you pay it off. I would even skip the 401k. I am sure you are paying 10% interest and making minimum payments, so over time you are paying interest on interest You needd to eliminate the "fun money" account until you are 99% debt free. Anything else is just ignorant. I am saying this to you like a father, not a preacher.

The lower-middle 5 figure debt range certainly was a new revelation. I agree with you completely too, talk about compound interest done wrong.

 

[defpearlpilot]

I guess I can't get passed the "free money" aspect, when it costs me more money to get said money and use it.

Of course, I am discounting growth/interest - but I don't have faith in the stability of the economy to "bet" on it.


XYZ company gets an investment from me, say 25% ownership. Company makes a profit, I get 25% of that profit, right? That's all and good, but, what does it take for a company to make a profit? So far, from what I've seen, it means cooking the books...seriously though, it takes customers, spending money - am I still on the right track?

What's one thing no one is doing right now - spending money...conclusion - there'll be record lows/losses posted, the economy will continue to tank, and there goes my investment.

I've had that thought in the back of my head ever since I took high school economics class and we did a fake stock market investing scenario. More than 75% of the people in class lost their ass. Oddly, I came out ahead because I diversified and took safer stocks. Granted that was highschool....but I remembered how many people "lost" money...

I'd rather spend the money on strippers and hookers than loose the money in the stock market...

Granted, my company gives me more money to gamble with, but does that make the gamble percentages any less? no...it's still a gamble - just when you loose that money, it hurts that much more because you think of what you could have had if things didn't go sour...

Now, if I'm totally wrong about this, say so, and explain it to where I can understand it. I appreciate your concern and input on it, but I still don't "get it", I guess.


Stuff it in a bank (but no more than what the FDIC will cover), buy up material-goods, that's what I have faith in.

I don't think the explanation that Steve gave could really be improved upon. It was explained to you that you don't have to invest in the stock market. Most financial analysts will actually recommend against it. They will recommend that you put your money in funds.

If your company is putting in 8% to your 6%, you are already making 133%. Leave in a money market and you are golden.

Say that the 6% is $100.

If you forgo putting it in, you'll get 75$ in your paycheck after tax, for example. The interest that you earn can be taxable(depending on how much interest you've earned that year) which will cause it to grow slower since your principal won't grow as fast.

If you put in the money, that 100 is actually 233 because of the employer match. The interest, dividends, coupons, etc that are earned aren't taxed until you take it out. Your principal is growing MUCH faster. Your potential to make money is much more significant this way.

I think the problem with explaining stuff to you is that you've already got your mind set. You think your smarter about money than others and really are not open minded. Like I said, Steve explained it pretty well. People here, believe it or not, are trying to help you. Just keep that in mind.

 

[Anonymous]

I guess I can't get passed the "free money" aspect, when it costs me more money to get said money and use it.

Of course, I am discounting growth/interest - but I don't have faith in the stability of the economy to "bet" on it.


XYZ company gets an investment from me, say 25% ownership. Company makes a profit, I get 25% of that profit, right? That's all and good, but, what does it take for a company to make a profit? So far, from what I've seen, it means cooking the books...seriously though, it takes customers, spending money - am I still on the right track?

What's one thing no one is doing right now - spending money...conclusion - there'll be record lows/losses posted, the economy will continue to tank, and there goes my investment.

I've had that thought in the back of my head ever since I took high school economics class and we did a fake stock market investing scenario. More than 75% of the people in class lost their ass. Oddly, I came out ahead because I diversified and took safer stocks. Granted that was highschool....but I remembered how many people "lost" money...

I'd rather spend the money on strippers and hookers than loose the money in the stock market...

Granted, my company gives me more money to gamble with, but does that make the gamble percentages any less? no...it's still a gamble - just when you loose that money, it hurts that much more because you think of what you could have had if things didn't go sour...

Now, if I'm totally wrong about this, say so, and explain it to where I can understand it. I appreciate your concern and input on it, but I still don't "get it", I guess.


Stuff it in a bank (but no more than what the FDIC will cover), buy up material-goods, that's what I have faith in.

You're hopeless.

Steve

 

[kannibul]

I guess I can't get passed the "free money" aspect, when it costs me more money to get said money and use it.

Of course, I am discounting growth/interest - but I don't have faith in the stability of the economy to "bet" on it.


XYZ company gets an investment from me, say 25% ownership. Company makes a profit, I get 25% of that profit, right? That's all and good, but, what does it take for a company to make a profit? So far, from what I've seen, it means cooking the books...seriously though, it takes customers, spending money - am I still on the right track?

What's one thing no one is doing right now - spending money...conclusion - there'll be record lows/losses posted, the economy will continue to tank, and there goes my investment.

I've had that thought in the back of my head ever since I took high school economics class and we did a fake stock market investing scenario. More than 75% of the people in class lost their ass. Oddly, I came out ahead because I diversified and took safer stocks. Granted that was highschool....but I remembered how many people "lost" money...

I'd rather spend the money on strippers and hookers than loose the money in the stock market...

Granted, my company gives me more money to gamble with, but does that make the gamble percentages any less? no...it's still a gamble - just when you loose that money, it hurts that much more because you think of what you could have had if things didn't go sour...

Now, if I'm totally wrong about this, say so, and explain it to where I can understand it. I appreciate your concern and input on it, but I still don't "get it", I guess.


Stuff it in a bank (but no more than what the FDIC will cover), buy up material-goods, that's what I have faith in.

I don't think the explanation that Steve gave could really be improved upon. It was explained to you that you don't have to invest in the stock market. Most financial analysts will actually recommend against it. They will recommend that you put your money in funds.

If your company is putting in 8% to your 6%, you are already making 133%. Leave in a money market and you are golden.

Say that the 6% is $100.

If you forgo putting it in, you'll get 75$ in your paycheck after tax, for example. The interest that you earn can be taxable(depending on how much interest you've earned that year) which will cause it to grow slower since your principal won't grow as fast.

If you put in the money, that 100 is actually 233 because of the employer match. The interest, dividends, coupons, etc that are earned aren't taxed until you take it out. Your principal is growing MUCH faster. Your potential to make money is much more significant this way.

I think the problem with explaining stuff to you is that you've already got your mind set. You think your smarter about money than others and really are not open minded. Like I said, Steve explained it pretty well. People here, believe it or not, are trying to help you. Just keep that in mind.

When it comes to 401K, I'm pretty ignorant, I guess. I guess somewhere I missed the boat on learning about it...I'd learned enough when I was younger that I made up my mind then that I wasn't going to invest in the stock market, and leave it at that. I vaguely remember something about 5-ways you can split up a 401K, but honestly, I've never paid attention to it. That along with the taxes for taking it out early, seemed a bit like a sham to me, where I'd rather have the money now...than to lock it away and worry about having enough money, and feeling like it's inaccessible.

I know of stocks and mutual funds. Outside of that, CD's, savings bonds, and savings accounts.

As I understand it, stocks are high risk/high reward. Mutual funds are slightly lower risk, but also a lot less gain. My Dad went with mutual funds, and lost his ass...

CD's, touching the money breaks the CD and you get no interest, which is more than what a savings account pays, bonds mature over time, only worth half the face-value until then, and savings accounts generally have very little interest, but also very little risk.

 

[kannibul]

You're hopeless.

Steve

Probably.

Yet when I get debts knocked down, and I'm knocking 20% into a 401K because I can afford to, plus an 8% match from the company...then what?

Or I can do what you're suggesting, and put in 3%, and they match w/ 5%...and continue with the status-quo in terms of living expenses...

 

[Anonymous]

You're hopeless.

Steve

Probably.

Definitely!

Steve

 

[JackBootedThug]

i agree with everything that everybody posted in this thread. now here's a picture of my new big, dumb dog-